Black Clouds and Silver Linings?

[ASacrificedSon]

Last poll for a while guys. My stats teacher was quite pleased I got a large number of responses in a short period of time! Great for sharing about Dream theater!
Why this album? This is my favorite album. THE favorite album, the magnum opus.
Why? Why not Images, Sdoit, awake, or scenes?
1. Real life situations. Love those.
2. General heaviness with mellowness also.
3. Long songs!
4. Beautiful work by all band members.
5. All songs are catchy and clicked for me.

Despite some setbacks, this album still is ranked 1. What are the setbacks?

1.Portnoy's vocals on Nightmare. The roar! The rest were great.
2. AROP'S bebot was first awards but I've grown used to it.

Now, for the songs.
1. A Nightmare to Remeber :  The introduction sets the whole tune with the lightning and Rudess' intro. Love Labrie's: "No more screaming, no more cries." Beautiful transition to Peaceful Sedation and the melody is just precious. Solo also sets the mood and I feel excited. Then Portnoy's vocals come in and kinda turns it off, but it's saved by the beautiful instrumental.

2. A Rite of Passage: Verses are cleverly written, especially verse 2 and the chorus is catchy as hell. Really beautiful solo by Petrucci and Rudess, especially his lead. I'm used to the bebot now and loved the finisher with JFK and Rudess.

3. Wither: A really beautiful ballad about writers block. Love Petrucci's voice also. Nice chorus and overall soft mood. Loved the duet between Rudess and Labrie then Petrucci's short but epic solo. Rudess does well with his keyboard also.

4. The Shattered Fortress: Loved Petrucci's riff throughout and the solo by both Rudess and Petrucci. Nostalgia aldo hit me hard. Loved the transition between Restraint and Receive. It's like Nightmare's transition. The ending was super nostalgic. Oh, The Glass Prison!

5. The Best of Times: Loved the introduction. The violin was magnificent and the Rudess/Petrucci reminded me of An Evening with JP and JR. Loved Petrucci's electric guitar appearance and the verses were so beautifully written. Loved rudess' strings solo and the transition to the soft section. Labrie does excellent here and after, the godly Petrucci solo. It was epic. Nuff said as words can't describe how good it is. Love Portnoy's playing too.

6. The Count of Tuscany: Beautifil, just beautiful. Fantastic introduction and ending! Loved Portnoy's vocals here and Petrucci's epic duet with Rudess. The instrumental section was great as all members were heard and they played it out, well. All of Petrucci's solo was fun to listen too also!

Still, overall this album is ranked as my number 1. I want to hear your opinions. Why did you rank this album as you did?

[Train of Naught]

This one is very interesting to me, because I rate it way lower than I probably should have when I look at all the songs separately. I love every song on it, but I never liked them in an album setting. Every song tells a different story and has a whole different mood (at least that's how I feel about it).

So, it's tied for #7 along with SC (so I'm guessing that's slightly below average) in my ratings, but I like all the songs on it, TCOT and ANTR are both probably top 10 songs for me.

[Scorpion]

I really like The Count of Tuscany - Top 20 for me - and Wither is basically the definition of short but sweet, but every other song has something that drags it down for me. I don't much like the lyrics of The Best of Times (but dat guitar solo!), The Shattered Fortress drags a little (but dat guitar solo!), A Rite of Passage is just kinda unremarkeable, and A Nightmare to Remember is amazing for the first eight minutes or so and then goes downhill during the instrumental section and the Portnoy vocal section.

So while I'd say it's a good album, it is dragged down by the fact that it has very few songs that I enjoy unreservedly.

I'd give it a 3/5 or so, and rank it around the top of the bottom third of their discography for me.

[ariich]

Above middle but not 3. My top tier is SDOIT, I&W and ADTOE. Black Clouds sits with a couple of other albums in the next tier down.

[SebastianPratesi]

Hi, man. Good to hear about the responses you got previously.

I voted "Top 3!". For a long time, it was my favourite as well, but since the last two albums were released, it's now #3.

I also like it for your reasons 1, 2 & 3, but I can't say I like the bass in this album - at times it's inaudible, at times it's playing the same as the guitar. Also, the fact that there are no lyrics by James. Plus, I don't think "A Rite Of Passage" & "Wither" click for me (although their chorus are catchy indeed).

I didn't use to care much about Mike's vocals in "A Nightmare To Remember" and "The Count Of Tuscany" (I usually don't pay attention to vocals/lyrics in any music). That is, until I started lurking here, and saw a lot of comments about them. They do feel weird! Although, he's singing lyrics by John, so I'm not sure what to think.

I would add that the guitar sound was also one of the main reasons I fell in love with the album. To me it sounds much more "chocolate cake"-ish than in the self-titled.

[krands85]

'One of the worst' for me, probably in my bottom 3. That's not to say there isn't some great stuff on the album - TCOT is a top 10 DT song and ANTR is pretty great too. The rest doesn't do much for me sadly.

I don't often feel this about DT songs, but there are a few on this album that could have done with being trimmed down - even ANTR which I really like goes on a little too long. All those lengthy songs gives you an album with only 6 tracks and if you're not too keen on 4 of them like me, then you've only got 2 left - doesn't bode well when it comes to ranking the album!

EDIT:
The cover songs are good fun though 

[pretorios]

I look at this record as solid but a bit of a missed opportunity.

1) A Nightmare to Remember - the biggest missed opportunity. Up to about nine minutes, the song is flawles. The "hopelessly drifting" part is maybe some of the best stuff DT has written. But then the song strays wildly off course. Even if you discount Portnoy's atrocious vocals, there's no focus to the jamming, and it's just not engaging.
2) A Rite of Passage - a solid tune that's probably a little long for what it is, but it's still good.
3) Wither -a solid ballad
4) Shattered Fortress - my favorite track on the record, really solid progressive metal. JP's solo is epic. My favorite is near the end, "I am responsible ... "--one of the many great DT moments.
5) The Best of Times - this is a tough topic, but Mike went too general with the lyrics. But this must have been a tough song to write. Musically, it's not great DT--well, unless you're talking about JP's jaw-dropping solo. I mean, like wow. So much feel there.
6) The Count of Tuscany - musically, this song is epic, definitely one of their best technical songs. Lyrically, I wish there were a better payoff. Uh, never mind, silly tourist. It was all just a joke. Some scary moments, even the ones that shouldn't be scary, make good horror stories. I wish JP hadn't been so literal with the lyrics. This could have been a great spooky song on the lines of Kansas' Lamplight Symphony. Instead, it's a progressive marvel with silly lyrics.

So that's how I see it. BCASL wastes too much potential with tracks 1 & 6.

[pcs90]

I ranked it "below average". Only TOT, SC and WDADU are below this one for me.

1. A Nightmare to Remember: The whole first half or so is great, and the beautiful agony part is...well...beautiful. The solo section following that, while a little long, is not bad. After the unison part though it really starts to drag and I feel like they just started throwing in whatever they could to make it longer. Easily the weakest part of the song for me is, as with the rest of the album, Portnoy vocals. I cut several minutes out of the version I listen to and if that was the actual released version it would rank quite a bit higher for me.

2. A Rite of Passage: The only things that really drag this song down for me are Portnoy's yells or whatever they are, the sampling, and the second half of Jordan's solo (the synth lead rocks and I wish he'd use that patch more). Great lyrics, catchy chorus and James does a great job. I'm not a huge fan of the main riff for some reason but I can live with that.

3. Wither: No complaints here, easily the best song on the album simply because it's the only one I didn't have to make some kind of edit on. It doesn't drag on too long and Jordan's parts are awesome.

4. The Shattered Fortress: I know I'm in the minority here but the 12-step suite really bores me, and this is one of the most boring parts of it. Solos are uninspired as well so not even the instrumental parts are that good.

5. The Best of Times: Instrumental sections are very pretty, and I love JP's melody that brings the whole band in to start the song. I don't care much for the lyrics though. I made an instrumental edit of this and it's a lot better now. JP's solo at the end, however, is an absolute masterpiece and is probably in his top 5 solos of all time in my opinion.

6. The Count of Tuscany: There are a lot of really awesome things in this song, instrumentally. I love the slow build up of the intro, as well as the ending where the band slowly builds from the acoustic. James also sounds great at the end. The instrumental section in the middle is pretty cool (best technical instrumental part on the album probably). But...the lyrics are so cheesy, and then when Portnoy does his vocals it gets even worse. Once again, I made an instrumental edit of this and shortened it by a few minutes. Now it's awesome.

So, as you can see, it's tough to rate this album. It has some absolutely gorgeous parts, some really cool faster moments, and some good lyrics. However, there's a lot of other stuff that brings this album way down for me.

[MirrorMask]

Lately I was thinking about this album, I realized that it was weird that I don't love it to death 'cause there aren't really bad songs on this... but I think this album would have benefitted greatly from some more work in the studio, and/or a producer guiding them. Giving a brief rundown of the songs...

- A Nightmare to Remember: this song is actually good, and could have been greater still. I heard it playing in a bar last weekend, it was impressive with its heavy and eerie beginning. Also I never got the chance to witness it live, I've seen a good quality clip on YouTube, the heavy beginning got everyone pumped, the wonderful middle slow section got everyone in lighter mode, and then the song goes downhill from there. The long solo and the infamous "day after day" part, it felt weird and wrong to see Portnoy growling on stage with James being out of the picture. The contrast of the lyrics with the music, the growling itself which is still the best solution out of those that were tried and released by MP... this is where a producer should have said "Listen guys, I get it, the song is heavy start - mellow middle - heavy end again, but this just doesn't work. Do something else to describe that the incident left no victims".

- A Rite of Passage - The chorus and its harmonies are actually golden. One of the best choruses by later DT. Then there's the solo section, which feels to me like once again the "Let's switch to LTE and jam until we got a solo section" approach that they have for their solos which completely takes me out of the song (And it's worse when it happens for slower stuff, see Endless Sacrifice and The Ministry of the Lost Souls). Could have really been a minor Pull Me Under 'cause the chorus was great. Also not a fan of the more "modern" inserts so to speak (the growls in the backgrounds).

- Wither - Ok, this is actually perfect and beautiful and I wouldn't change a thing about it. I said it in the controversal opinions thread, all DT "easy", "pop" songs are great and this is among the very best.

- The Shattered Fortress - This suffers from being the closing song of a saga full of reprises, while being detached from the rest. For obvious reason the AA saga (5 songs) and The Astonishing (34 songs) cannot be compared, but with a wild stretch of imagination, can you imagine getting The Astonishing spread over some albums and then have Astonishing alone on the last album? the fact that it's just made up of pieces from other songs would stand far more out than it does at the end of a complete concept album. Anyway the transations are not good, just the "Keep all of me" part seems a bit forced.

- The Best of Times - Another great song, you know it's a tribute to MP's dad so you hear the violin and the piano at the beginning and think "yeah, slow melanchonic piece", then the fast part kicks in... and you feel brought back to the Images and Words days! that positive, uplifting feel... brought a smile to my face when I first heard the transition and I like to think it did to MP's dad too. Lyrics are a bit too specific but I'm not gonna criticize a heartfelt and sincere tribute to the man that suggested the name of the band.

- The Count of Tuscany - cheesy lyrics that can't drag down the song, which is actually beautiful but then again, could have used some trimming, I made a 12 minutes version that keeps the first half more concise and completely cuts out the spacey, psychedelic part... which I think is fine and can stay in the song, I just don't want to hear it every time, like some people skip over Octavarium's beginning, but it has its place in the song. Oh, and when after the slow part at the end starts, James says "I just don't understand... just don't understand" and Jordan comes in WHOAH, that is when you start to get shivers that won't leave you until the end of the song, golden stuff, this is what I want to hear from DT!!!

So, all in all, some better attention to the lyrics, a little less wankery and a producer telling the little things here and there that weren't working could have make this a very awesome and excellent album. But I still think it's very good and a great improvement over Systematic Chaos. Also, the album is not helped by having only 6 songs, and 5 fully original ones.. If you don't like a song, you have very little else to fall back on, so this exposes the album to not be liked more than other records with more songs.

[metrojam]

A lot better than the last two albums!!...nuff said.

[Kotowboy]

Good production but not enough great tracks to be able to choose one at random to put on.


Latter half of the album > > > First half of the album.


Ergo:

Shattered Fortress > A Nightmare to Remember
The Best Of Times > A Rite Of Passage
The Count Of Tuscany > Wither

[JMSE]

I try not to rank DT albums, but this one is not close to enter my "Holy Trinity" (I&W, Awake & SFAM listed chronologically).

ANTR: I like it, I think they should have used Akerfeldt for the growls even though growling on the grace of god sounds weird.

AROP: Like the intro and MPs screams on the back. Hate the chorous. JP saves this song with this 4 headed monster solo

Wither: Loved it at first, didn't stand the test of time

TSF: I liked it, I loved the reprised themes collage, as I'm a fan of bands reworking their material. Ironically, MM best performance of a DT song lol Ruddess is acid as hell in this one and I love it.

TBOT: I can't judge this song. It's a tribute of a man to his dying father which is a beautiful thing in itself.

TCOT: Among DTs best songs. Lyrically not very strong but it doesn't ruin the song at all. Musically Ruddess shines with two supportive melodies at the beginning and at the end.

My biggest problem with this album was MP overhyping it - Love MP but the man has the PR skills of a potato at times. No it's not ACOS, meets LTL, meets, Metropolis, meets 8V

[jayvee3]

One of the worst for me. Easily. Of course, this is not of all time, just in relation the rest of the DT catalogue. I feel an album like Systematic Chaos had more cohesiveness, and is just a more enjoyable listen. Black Clouds and WDADU would be my bottom 2 (even though I do like quite a bit of the musicianship on WDADU, I just can't warm to Charlies vocals).

The problem I have with BCASL, is that at only 6 songs, if you don't care for a few, theres not much left to win you over.
ANTR - Some great parts, but far too long, and the parts that aren't great, really aren't great, and really stick out. A shame, because they turn what could've been an incredible song into a middle of the pack song..
AROP - Meh.
WITHER - Meh.
TSF - I actually don't mind this, and is actually a bit underrated I feel. Really like the live version on BTFW.
TBOT - after the cool opening solo, just - no. I listen to the opening, then press skip most of the time.
TCOT - Saves the album. Corny, yes. Cheesy, yes. But I love this one.

[Outcrier]

Only WDADU keeps it for being the worst DT record imo. Also, last time we had a consensus ranking, it's was among the least liked DT albums along SC and WDADU.

[bl5150]

Bottom 3 for me - with SC and ToT.

[ASacrificedSon]

I'm actually pretty sad to see this album get mostly dislikes....
But hey, it's your opinions and I respect that.
There were good and interesting reasons!

[Crow]

honestly, one of my least favorites. ahead of probably only WDADU and DT12. but it's alright. ANTR, TBOT, and TCOT are all pretty good, TSF and Wither are fine too, but I don't care for AROP

[Kotowboy]

50% of the song titles on this album are A/The X of Y

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Probably in the top 3, but number three is kind of a tossup between this one and Six Degrees.

[hefdaddy42]

Definitely one of the worst.

[ReaPsTA]

The one overlooked aspect of this album is JP's guitar work. Great tone, some very memorable and powerful riffs, and a few of his best guitar solos.

[Dream Team]

The one overlooked aspect of this album is JP's guitar work. Great tone, some very memorable and powerful riffs, and a few of his best guitar solos.

Yup, JP always delivers. Too bad the songs are so bloated.

[MirrorMask]

I see many similar comments: "I like this song, BUT......"

The "But's" could have been addressed either by an external producer, or by spending more time working on the songs, reworking on all those bits and pieces that made lot of people think "This should have been like this", "This could have been cut" and the likes.

It could have been an even better album than what we actually got.

[pantsofeternity]

Oof, this is the nadir of their career for me.

TCOT is the most interesting and exciting song, but it's deeply flawed, my brother. TBOT & Wither are solid but would be middle-of-the-road on a better DT album.  AROP has that one cool riff and then... yeah.  Shattered Fortress feels like the completion of a homework assignment rather than the finale of a grand work.  And Nightmare to Remember, ironically, is the most forgettable song in their oeuvre.

(JMO, folks.  JMO.)

[PixelDream]

I voted middle. It's ranked 8th with me, below Falling into Infinity and above Systematic Chaos. It's a bit of a weird album for me.

Everything about it screams classic, but it does have some flaws. Nonetheless, I would easily rate the album 8/10. And what others have said rings true for me, too: it's difficult to pick one song to listen to at random.

The weakest track is definitely A Rite of Passage, I think. It just feels longer than it should be, just overall a pretty 'slow' feeling track. Nothing very energetic.

I rarely listen to The Best of Times even though I was pretty moved by it at the time. I can remember the JP solo being very awesome. Have to listen to it again.

[nikatapi]

One of their worst albums for me. ANTR is very long with a lot of needless soloing, the atrocious portnoy vocals and a failed attempt at blastbeats.
Wither and TSF are kinda good, i came to appreciate TSF a lot more recently listening to it on BTFW.
TCOT has some great moments, but it drags a lot and has some of the worst DT lyrics ever.
TBOT has some interesting moments and a great solo, but i don't find myself listening to it a lot.

Overall, i think it's one of their weakest albums.

[RAIN]

Great Album, top 3 for sure...includes best DT song ever, A Nightmare to Remember

[BowlCity]

Top 3 after Six Degrees and Scenes. Love everything on here. The Count of Tuscany is musical sex.

[Zook]

The worst album.

[54_diplomats]

Their worst album. I only really listen to TCOT

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

If it weren't for the production being so superior to WDADU, I would call it their worst album.

[BlobVanDam]

I find it impossibly silly to compare any other DT album with the badness of WDADU.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

WDADU doesn't really have their worst material as it does their most bland/unmemorable. Its production certainly doesn't help either, and that's what has it at the bottom of my list.

The issue with Black Clouds is that, as others have said, it's extremely bloated. It's a strange case to me since it has some of their best and worst material, some even in the same song.

[Dreamer]

I loathe this album, good to know I'm not the only one! 

[IdoSC]

My least favorite album by quite a margin. I don't full on hate it, but I do highly dislike it.