Petrucci & Rudess sole writers; concern?

[BlobVanDam]

ITPOE was probably not the best example of JLB being out of his comfort zone as most of that is quite melodic, thinking more of the Dark Master stuff in there which I didn't like.

I just think JLB is a melodic singer, he's not good doing James Hetfield tough guy vocals and not a screamer so I am happier when he is not pushed into doing that stuff.

Fair enough in the case of CM/TDEN (CM is one of maybe two times that JLB has legitimately channeled pure undiluted Hetfield, and TDEN was clearly a challenging one for him and experimental for DT in general, so I applaud them trying something different, and loved the outcome), but not ITPOE. The "Dark Master" stuff was all still quite melodic too, not "tough guy" vocals or "Hetfield" (I'd be happy if we banned both of these vague metal derogatory terms from DTF altogether tbh). In fact I think the whole song contains some of his best vocals of the RR era, even as good as much of TA (not all of it, TA undeniably has some amazing sections vocally), and had a lot of emotion and variety, especially given it was DT's first and only venture into that kind of fantasy lyric.

Those soaring pre-chorus vocals in pt 2 still give me chills like few things have since. The vocals in that second verse are so underrated, with the first half being light and airy with the nice falsetto usage, moving into the full voice with so much energy so powah. The Reckoning section is the only minor letdown, slightly bland, but even they're inoffensive enough. The outro again still gives me chills with that wonderful raspiness. HE KNOWS AND HEEEE WAAAAAAITS. Gets me every time. Every single time!

There are definitely particular moments on the album that I get aren't to everyone's tastes, and I understand many feel weren't fitting for JLB, but I think for the most part the album gets an undeserved bad rap vocally speaking. Overall JLB gives one heck of a performance on SC, and I think being pushed slightly outside of his comfort zone has helped him becoming a more diverse and impressive vocalist to this day.

[bosk1]

^For what it's worth, I pretty much agree with all of that.

[SebastianPratesi]

https://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4149776-jordan-rudess-of-dream-theater-on-working-with-david-bowie-and-new-album-the-astonishing

Thanks for the link!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

ITPOE was probably not the best example of JLB being out of his comfort zone as most of that is quite melodic, thinking more of the Dark Master stuff in there which I didn't like.

I just think JLB is a melodic singer, he's not good doing James Hetfield tough guy vocals and not a screamer so I am happier when he is not pushed into doing that stuff.

Fair enough in the case of CM/TDEN (CM is one of maybe two times that JLB has legitimately channeled pure undiluted Hetfield, and TDEN was clearly a challenging one for him and experimental for DT in general, so I applaud them trying something different, and loved the outcome), but not ITPOE. The "Dark Master" stuff was all still quite melodic too, not "tough guy" vocals or "Hetfield" (I'd be happy if we banned both of these vague metal derogatory terms from DTF altogether tbh). In fact I think the whole song contains some of his best vocals of the RR era, even as good as much of TA (not all of it, TA undeniably has some amazing sections vocally), and had a lot of emotion and variety, especially given it was DT's first and only venture into that kind of fantasy lyric.

Those soaring pre-chorus vocals in pt 2 still give me chills like few things have since. The vocals in that second verse are so underrated, with the first half being light and airy with the nice falsetto usage, moving into the full voice with so much energy so powah. The Reckoning section is the only minor letdown, slightly bland, but even they're inoffensive enough. The outro again still gives me chills with that wonderful raspiness. HE KNOWS AND HEEEE WAAAAAAITS. Gets me every time. Every single time!

There are definitely particular moments on the album that I get aren't to everyone's tastes, and I understand many feel weren't fitting for JLB, but I think for the most part the album gets an undeserved bad rap vocally speaking. Overall JLB gives one heck of a performance on SC, and I think being pushed slightly outside of his comfort zone has helped him becoming a more diverse and impressive vocalist to this day.

Good post. I agree that JLB's performance in that album is one of its best assets.

It's a shame his voice wasn't on very good shape on that tour.

[Kotowboy]

https://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4149776-jordan-rudess-of-dream-theater-on-working-with-david-bowie-and-new-album-the-astonishing

Thanks for the link!

I keep reading that it's " two hours and 20 minutes " ... " two hours and 18 minutes " ... " two hours and 17 minutes ! "

131 minutes is the actual length Or two hours and 11.

[SebastianPratesi]

I keep reading that it's " two hours and 20 minutes " ... " two hours and 18 minutes " ... " two hours and 17 minutes ! "

131 minutes is the actual length Or two hours and 11.

Yeah, in most interviews I see Jordan says the album is 2 hours and 13 minutes long. Maybe there were a couple of minutes more in some song that were cut at the last moment, so only the band have that version?

[BlobVanDam]

I keep reading that it's " two hours and 20 minutes " ... " two hours and 18 minutes " ... " two hours and 17 minutes ! "

131 minutes is the actual length Or two hours and 11.

Yeah, in most interviews I see Jordan says the album is 2 hours and 13 minutes long. Maybe there were a couple of minutes more in some song that were cut at the last moment, so only the band have that version?

Given how close the album is to 80 minutes, and the difference in some of the original track times (most notably Descent of the NOMACS), I think they trimmed a minute or two of Act I to make it fit.

[erwinrafael]

Confirmed: A New Beginning did not actually end on a fadeout.

[BlobVanDam]

I definitely wonder about A New Beginning. I'm perfectly ok with the fadeout though.

[SebastianPratesi]

(...) and the difference in some of the original track times (most notably Descent of the NOMACS) (...)

Didn't know about those. Were there on the promo copies sent to the media/listening parties/forum members? Were they the ones posted as pie-chart a couple of months ago?

[BlobVanDam]

(...) and the difference in some of the original track times (most notably Descent of the NOMACS) (...)

Didn't know about those. Were there on the promo copies sent to the media/listening parties/forum members? Were they the ones posted as pie-chart a couple of months ago?

The pie chart was final album times.

[Dream Team]

We're 3 albums into the Mangini era and still don't have a killer drum intro like in Honor Thy Father. C'mon man. Even if he's not writing the stuff, he ought to at least come up with one awesome intro like that.

[bosk1]

We're 3 albums into the Mangini era and still don't have a killer drum intro like in Honor Thy Father. C'mon man. Even if he's not writing the stuff, he ought to at least come up with one awesome intro like that.

Just stopped in to point out that, for what it's worth, Honor Thy Father was 7 albums into the "Mike Portnoy era."  So, yeah...

[fischermasamune]

Not exactly an intro, but what about the start of the The Pursuit of Truth section of IT, after the orchestra?

[mikeyd23]

We're 3 albums into the Mangini era and still don't have a killer drum intro like in Honor Thy Father. C'mon man. Even if he's not writing the stuff, he ought to at least come up with one awesome intro like that.

Honestly that intro is probably one of those things that is more likely to get slotted in when the drummer is helping to arrange the song. If JP and JR are writing and arranging I'd say something like that is less likely to be written. For the record I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I haven't missed stuff like that example in particular and have no problem with different approaches to writing.

[CDrice]

We're 3 albums into the Mangini era and still don't have a killer drum intro like in Honor Thy Father. C'mon man. Even if he's not writing the stuff, he ought to at least come up with one awesome intro like that.

There's the long drum fill in Illumination Theaory that leads into Live, Die, Kill that I find is in a similar vein than the Honor Thy Father's intro.

[Enigmachine]

We're 3 albums into the Mangini era and still don't have a killer drum intro like in Honor Thy Father. C'mon man. Even if he's not writing the stuff, he ought to at least come up with one awesome intro like that.

Just stopped in to point out that, for what it's worth, Honor Thy Father was 7 albums into the "Mike Portnoy era."  So, yeah...

The very first chronological DT song (AFIL) has a drum intro though. So did 6:00 and YNM and both of those are pretty cool and flashy like HTF.

[bosk1]

YOU KEEP YOUR STINKIN' FACTS TO YOURSELF!

[Prog Snob]

YOU KEEP YOUR STINKIN' FACTS TO YOURSELF!

I was going to say something but EM beat me to it.

[KevShmev]

So basically he confirms it's more or less been JP/JR writing the music since he joined anyway, but this time it was strictly just JP/JR, so his contribution gets to shine through more than usual. Does that sound about right?
This is why I'm not at all concerned about it being credited differently. The album approach obviously had differences this time, but it's not as major a shift as it might first appear. Personally, I think the album ended up better for it in many ways, it was largely the choice of the double disc concept that brought it down for me. If they keep this approach for a more typical next album, I expect I'll love it.

My reading of what he said is that it's really just JP/JR writing a lot of the songs before. "being put in the background" I think is a comment on crediting writing to the whole band before, when crediting to JP/JR is more real.

That was my interpretation. The old way was crediting every song to the whole band, when it reality Petrucci and Rudess obviously did most of the heavy lifting when it came to writing melodies and riffs (which form the songs), and with the music now being credited to just the two, Rudess is likely happy that he isn't having to share equal credit with those who didn't do nearly as much. That sentiment is perfectly understandable.

And that is not to take away from the contributions by the others, but I think it's obvious that Petrucci and Rudess have been THE main songwriters, by and large, for most of JR's tenure in the band.

[SebastianPratesi]

The pie chart was final album times.

Oh, OK, thanks.