DT14 speculation thread

[Adami]

The entire ADTOE is filled with crazy instrumental sections.
BC&SL instrumentals are among the most panned things DT has ever done.

Yes, but he sad remarkable. He also said that most of the instrumental sections from the last 3 albums blur together.

I can't strongly disagree with that.

[Darkstarshades]

The lack of anything remarkable dates from before Portnoy left.
And it isn't like Portnoy wrote the crazy solos.
It's ok that he wrote EVERY SINGLE MELODY FROM EVERY SINGLE SONG but I don't think it went as far as to writing the solos.

[Adami]

The lack of anything remarkable dates from before Portnoy left.
And it isn't like Portnoy wrote the crazy solos.
It's ok that he wrote EVERY SINGLE MELODY FROM EVERY SINGLE SONG but I don't think it went as far as to writing the solos.

Well yea, but he did write all of the bass parts.

[Darkstarshades]

Systematic Chaos Sessions: What really happened

Mike Portnoy: Hey John, How ya' doin?
John Myung: ...What the hell are you doing?
Mike Portnoy: Writing your bass parts, I got some awesome ideas for you, here, follow them, they're already written.
John Myung: But I already had an idea for this song...
Mike Portnoy: I'm sorry man, but we changed everything around it, so it had to be reworked, don't worry, I also play bass at NCinema, remember?
John Myung: So I just learn them and that's it? Record and go?
Mike Portnoy: That's right!, it's all set, cool to have a guy like me and John Petrucci around, right?
John Myung: Right...

BC&SL sessions, what really happened

John Myung's house
*Phone rings*
John Myung: Hello?
Mike Portnoy: Hey man, I've sent you your bass parts fully transcribed to your e-mail, just learn them and get ready for touring!
John Myung: Bass parts of what...?
Mike Portnoy: The new album! It's done already!
John Myung: I didn't know we were making a new...
Mike Portnoy: No time for that! JP and I already worked everything and even recorded it, it's done, I'm also sending you the isolated tracks for you to work...
*JM hears the songs and tracks*
John Myung: What the fuck Mike, bass is barely there.
Mike Portnoy: Sounds awesome, right?
John Myung: But I didn't do shit.
Mike Portnoy: I know! Cool to have us in the band, specially me, right?
John Myung: Right.

[SystematicThought]

I mean, that last one kinda happened with James for Black Clouds where they were pretty much done with it and just sent him snippets of the materials before he did his vocals. Right? I think I remember reading that

[Mosh]

Didn't know that. Would be cool if there's an interview around to read more about it.

[nikatapi]

Even though i love The Astonishing, i also want to see a different album this time around. I still think that MM is underutilized so far with a few exceptions, and i would love to hear a heavy, more metal and full on progressive album from the band. I've been listening to ToT lately, and it has such a great vibe (and an amazing bass sound and playing from JM). I feel that especially with DT12 and TA the band has been pushing for the cinematic vibe but it feels a little forced.

[Dream Team]

As regards contributions from all members, stuff a la Yes' "Fragile" would be awesome.

[red barchetta]

Systematic Chaos Sessions: What really happened

Mike Portnoy: Hey John, How ya' doin?
John Myung: ...What the hell are you doing?
Mike Portnoy: Writing your bass parts, I got some awesome ideas for you, here, follow them, they're already written.
John Myung: But I already had an idea for this song...
Mike Portnoy: I'm sorry man, but we changed everything around it, so it had to be reworked, don't worry, I also play bass at NCinema, remember?
John Myung: So I just learn them and that's it? Record and go?
Mike Portnoy: That's right!, it's all set, cool to have a guy like me and John Petrucci around, right?
John Myung: Right...

BC&SL sessions, what really happened

John Myung's house
*Phone rings*
John Myung: Hello?
Mike Portnoy: Hey man, I've sent you your bass parts fully transcribed to your e-mail, just learn them and get ready for touring!
John Myung: Bass parts of what...?
Mike Portnoy: The new album! It's done already!
John Myung: I didn't know we were making a new...
Mike Portnoy: No time for that! JP and I already worked everything and even recorded it, it's done, I'm also sending you the isolated tracks for you to work...
*JM hears the songs and tracks*
John Myung: What the fuck Mike, bass is barely there.
Mike Portnoy: Sounds awesome, right?
John Myung: But I didn't do shit.
Mike Portnoy: I know! Cool to have us in the band, specially me, right?
John Myung: Right.

And years later, Portnoy got a call from Myung.
Myung: hey Mike, what's up? You know, it's too bad you ain't here.
Portnoy: why?
Myung: this band would really need your advice.
Portnoy: why?
Myung: well MP and JR are writing the new album and it is covered with childish melodies and ballads
Portnoy: WWWWWWHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYyY???

I don't think that it is acceptable to bash on anybody here no matter on which side you are.

[bosk1]

Well, in ADToE we know that Petrucci wrote the drums

No, he did NOT.

I mean, that last one kinda happened with James for Black Clouds where they were pretty much done with it and just sent him snippets of the materials before he did his vocals. Right? I think I remember reading that

No.  Where do you guys get this stuff?

[Mindflux]

No, he did NOT.

I thought that was pretty well known.

"On January 3, 2011, Dream Theater entered Cove City Sound Studios to begin working on a new album.[7] Although John Petrucci brought in demos, riffs, and songs from home, the album was mostly written in the studio. Writing was completed on March 2 and done without Mike Mangini. The band made demos for all the songs with drums already programmed, then sent them to Mangini who learned the parts and "added his own stuff.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dramatic_Turn_of_Events


From Wikipedia.  I'm pretty sure by "The band" it probably means "mostly JP".

[CDrice]

No.  Where do you guys get this stuff?

On DTF

[bosk1]

No, he did NOT.

I thought that was pretty well known.

"The band made demos for all the songs with drums already programmed, then sent them to Mangini who learned the parts and "added his own stuff.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dramatic_Turn_of_Events


From Wikipedia.  I'm pretty sure by "The band" it probably means "mostly JP".

And there have been TONS of interviews from the bandmembers, including JP and MM, stating that that is not true.  JP programmed basic, stripped down drum tracks so that they could record the songs.  He then sent them to Mangini, who of course kept the time signatures and a lot of the basic beats, but basically used JP's basic tracks as the building blocks for writing his drum parts.  JP did not write them.

[TAC]

What year are we in?

[mikeyd23]

And there have been TONS of interviews from the bandmembers, including JP and MM, stating that that is not true.  JP programmed basic, stripped down drum tracks so that they could record the songs.  He then sent them to Mangini, who of course kept the time signatures and a lot of the basic beats, but basically used JP's basic tracks as the building blocks for writing his drum parts.  JP did not write them.

Yup that.

Both MM and JP have addressed this many times, especially MM. I've heard several interviews where he talked about the process in detail basically saying what JP programmed was simple drum parts to keep time in the different sections of songs, MM took those and ran with them, writing his own parts with those basic blueprints as a starting point.

If you listen to ADTOE, it's got what I can now (after three DT albums) call a ton of signature MM style parts.

[ToT-147]

The entire ADTOE is filled with crazy instrumental sections. (...)

The lack of anything remarkable dates from before Portnoy left.
And it isn't like Portnoy wrote the crazy solos.

And I do like the ones in Outcry and BAI (especially the second part in the latter, after the solo); also, some other sections throughout the three albums.. But then again, they don't have the same quality as before.. Because yeah, the whole MP/JR era was brilliant in that aspect, IMHO.. I'd say since ADToE, but most of all since DT12, the band has been putting aside the instrumental aspect in their 'crazy sections' and giving instead major importance to the vocals.. There's a lot of examples of that in the last two albums, but just to mention some of them: Live, Die, Kill (second half), The Pursuit of Truth, Three Days and The Walking Shadow..

I mean: where the hell have gone sections like Full Circle, or the instrumental parts in TDEN and TCoT?... they vanished with a scream?.... I'm not talking about the solos, and neither I'm saying MP wrote the sections, btw.. Whether they have lost somehow the magic to create things like that, or they just don't want to do them anymore..

Even when I'm not comfortable with that, I could understand that the lack of the crazy instrumentals have made room for new stuff, like the thing with the vocals, the explorations in different styles, well, the whole The Astonishing idea, etc... 

[Luoto]

If you can provide sources for those interviews contradicting the Wikipedia article concerning the drum parts, I will gladly update it.

[Kotowboy]

No, he did NOT.

I thought that was pretty well known.

"The band made demos for all the songs with drums already programmed, then sent them to Mangini who learned the parts and "added his own stuff.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dramatic_Turn_of_Events


From Wikipedia.  I'm pretty sure by "The band" it probably means "mostly JP".

And there have been TONS of interviews from the bandmembers, including JP and MM, stating that that is not true.  JP programmed basic, stripped down drum tracks so that they could record the songs.  He then sent them to Mangini, who of course kept the time signatures and a lot of the basic beats, but basically used JP's basic tracks as the building blocks for writing his drum parts.  JP did not write them.

This. JP Sent Mangini bass drum and snare patterns only. Purely to outline feel. MM had the option to stick to that or create his own parts.

[nikatapi]

From JP himself, about the whole drumming on ADTOE point:
https://iheartguitarblog.com/2011/09/interview-dream-theaters-john-petrucci.html#sthash.g0Zg3aPv.dpuf

I understand that this time around you had a big role in composing the drum parts. How did you go about that?

Well what I did was, when we were writing the music we were all set up in the studio and we'd write a section of music, whether it be a riff or a chord sequence or whatever it was, and I wanted to be able to present it in such a way – Mike Mangini wasn't available when we were writing – and I wanted to be able to present ideas in a way that, instead of just giving him a click with guitars and keyboards, I thought it would be better to give him more of a blueprint of what we were thinking as far as the feel and groove of the sections. I didn't go crazy programming the drums. I did it on a basic level. I didn't want to waste a lot of time being very nerdy with the drums. It'd be a waste of time! Y'know, I'm not a drummer, I'm a guitar player! But when all is said and done, the songs existed as full demos with full drums. I used the Superior drumming program, which sounded great. So we were able to send that to Mangini, and he was able to get a really good feeling as to what we were going for. And of course, him being really creative and a master drummer he was able to take care of that in his own way and add incredible fills and segues and turnarounds. He would catch things that people were playing and make it a hell of a lot more interesting than my little drum programming! It's important that people realise how creative he is.

[Tomislav95]

I remember when Mike told JP programmed drum section so crazy he couldn't play it

[ToT-147]

I remember when Mike told JP programmed drum section so crazy he couldn't play it

Now that's crazy.. I remember that too.. When I read it I thought: "Not even him can play it?.."

I think JP was too much into Animals as Leaders or something..

[fischermasamune]

I think it wasn't exactly "crazy", but rather too many beats a second.

[Darkstarshades]

JP isn't a drummer, so maybe for him just a ton of random superfast beats sounded awesome, and maybe he was unaware that there were other ways to create that effect.

I'm almost certain that this part was the LNF intro.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was in the Bridges In The Sky ending: https://youtu.be/sx8cLlXnHpA?t=45m46s

[CoT67]

Ok, I understand that saying JP wrote every single drum beat in ADToE is not correct, after all I don't think he would have thought of something like the triple-pattern magic in OTBoA. Still, by writing even basic drum parts he could have dictated the structure of the songs. That I can believe and that was the main point of my assertion.

[Super Dude]

Wow, this whole last page doesn't look like album speculation at all...

[red barchetta]

Systematic Chaos Sessions: What really happened

Mike Portnoy: Hey John, How ya' doin?
John Myung: ...What the hell are you doing?
Mike Portnoy: Writing your bass parts, I got some awesome ideas for you, here, follow them, they're already written.
John Myung: But I already had an idea for this song...
Mike Portnoy: I'm sorry man, but we changed everything around it, so it had to be reworked, don't worry, I also play bass at NCinema, remember?
John Myung: So I just learn them and that's it? Record and go?
Mike Portnoy: That's right!, it's all set, cool to have a guy like me and John Petrucci around, right?
John Myung: Right...

BC&SL sessions, what really happened

John Myung's house
*Phone rings*
John Myung: Hello?
Mike Portnoy: Hey man, I've sent you your bass parts fully transcribed to your e-mail, just learn them and get ready for touring!
John Myung: Bass parts of what...?
Mike Portnoy: The new album! It's done already!
John Myung: I didn't know we were making a new...
Mike Portnoy: No time for that! JP and I already worked everything and even recorded it, it's done, I'm also sending you the isolated tracks for you to work...
*JM hears the songs and tracks*
John Myung: What the fuck Mike, bass is barely there.
Mike Portnoy: Sounds awesome, right?
John Myung: But I didn't do shit.
Mike Portnoy: I know! Cool to have us in the band, specially me, right?
John Myung: Right.

Funny!  I wonder what happened to Myung bass in TA.  Just saying.

[Darkstarshades]

He had a lot of fun with it.

[goo-goo]

Funny!  I wonder what happened to Myung bass in TA.  Just saying.

The bass is there. I had to tweak a bit my stereo in order to hear it. But I do agree, it's a bit buried.

[Enigmachine]

Funny!  I wonder what happened to Myung bass in TA.  Just saying.

The bass is there. I had to tweak a bit my stereo in order to hear it. But I do agree, it's a bit buried.

Meh, I can hear the bass just fine. Maybe not one of the clearest bass sounds on a DT album but if you listen for it, it's not difficult to hear.

Getting sort of back on topic:

Is it weird that I'm already hyped for the next DT album? It's to the point where when I woke up, I took it as a fact that they had released a single from DT14, that it had been 8:50 long (with a relatively long name with one of the words beginning with the letter M), that it had a production that was a mix of SDoIT/8vm/DT12 and even that the album art had the 8vm/SC border, had an orange tint, and showed a road with an 8-sided DT sign beside it. Also, the music video had the band performing the song in space.

I think the song sounded stylistically like a mix of Evergrey and Symphony X, just with LaBrie singing on top.

[Darkstarshades]

Yes that's Drugavarium

[Enigmachine]

Yes that's Drugavarium

In the inevitable prediction thread, someone should make an album where each song is a drug pun matched with existing DT songs. Thinking about it though, that may have already been done.

I don't really know why I dream about imaginary DT albums occasionally. I once had one about a double concept album with an icy cover with the majesty logo in a glass sphere in the middle. It's really strange.

[SebastianPratesi]

Is it weird that I'm already hyped for the next DT album?

I don't think so. The The Astonishing's cycle is pretty much coming to a conclusion. Contrary to the rest of their previous albums' cycles, all of the music has already been played, and they've already toured most of the countries they usually visit - only Oceania/Japan is left, I believe. Plus, the band has confirmed (in a few interviews) that they have already talked about and made decisions about what they'll do for their next album, so even they are already thinking about the next step.

Having said that, I should but I'm not hyped about the next one yet. 2016 has been my most 'DT' year - new album (which I love and is probably my favourite), joining the forums, Q&A and show in late June... It's like The Astonishing's cycle was a big meal that has left me full and satisfied, and I'm still digesting it, not thinking about what I'm 'eating' tomorrow. In fact, I haven't played the CD since I saw the band live in June.

[Kotowboy]

The album was released late January 2016. It's now Mid August 2016.

[SwedishGoose]

The album was released late January 2016. It's now Mid August 2016.

Exactly. .. it has been seven months already, why are they not in the studio