"The Astonishing" World = Greater New York area (+theory about topic of album)

[Prog Snob]

I'm wondering if Victory Isleland is a reference to Staten Island. Victory Boulevard is one of the longest and most well known streets here.

I mentioned my suspicion in the OP, but I only surmised based on location. Yeah, that ties it in further.

I completely missed where you mentioned Staten Island.   

I'm really looking forward to hearing the lyrics to see if Part 2 of your theory comes to fruition. 

I wish I could see some of the names on the map better. I'd be able to confirm more local locations. 

[rumborak]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/inside-dream-theaters-wildly-ambitious-new-concept-lp-20151203?page=2

Thinking about how today robotics are taking over a lot of jobs that were once done by humans, and a lot of jobs are becoming obsolete, and that possibly as technology advances and electronic music becomes more advanced — the way people can record, the portability of music, how digital technology is developing — if that was to exponentially grow and develop, what would happen if music actually wasn't made by humans anymore? If there were no need for humans to make it, because some sort of artificial intelligence made it, what would be missing in our souls as a society?

Calllllllled it!!

I am the prognosticator of prognosticators.

[Prog Snob]

 

[MirrorMask]

Congrats!

[CoT67]

That's a really good catch, congrats!

[Prog Snob]

Gabriel in this story seems to be allegorical with the biblical angel Gabriel.

[Pebsie]

Damn shiit nice one.

[Bogie]

It appears that the New England area is called NEW ANGLYA according to this image accessible through the pre-order link:

https://img.cdn2.wmgecom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1024/image/1200x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/h/theastonishing-deluxecd-1100x1100-whitebg.png



And the other easily visible detail is in lower right corner of the map -- it's labelled G.N.E.A.

[rumborak]

I think GNEA is the last part of the name, I think theres two ornate big letters in front of it.

Also, I see an area of different color in the CT/MA area. I'm calling it for some kind of "Berklidia"

[ariich]

I think GNEA is the last part of the name, I think theres two ornate big letters in front of it.

No I'm pretty sure it stands for Great Northern Empire of the Americas.

[TAC]

Greater New England Area?

[rumborak]

Greater New England Area?

Duuuude, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how they got to the "official" acronym. I mean, the official one is ... not the best.

[chrisbDTM]

I'm from southwest CT, so this thread has made me more excited to dive in to the concept and see some of the inspirations (for the map at least) 

[rumborak]

Upper right, in the New Haven area, "xxxxhaven". (Idlehaven?)

[Bogie]

Yes, it's Idlehaven.  And it appears Ravenskill is on Endless Isleland, just sound of Idlehaven across the Great Northern Sound.

[Prog Snob]

Yes, it's Idlehaven.  And it appears Ravenskill is on Endless Isleland, just sound of Idlehaven across the Great Northern Sound.

If you use Endless Isleland as Long Island, where Ravenskill is located is pretty much identical to where JP lives in Long Island. King's Park is just one town over, so Ravenskill could definitely be the birthplace of Dream Theater so to speak.

[rumborak]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

[Prog Snob]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

Unless Gabriel is Chris Collins.   

[Mebert78]

I instantly thought the name Gabriel was chosen as an homage to Peter Gabriel, as Genesis is considered one of the most influential bands in the progressive rock genre.  But I'm sure there's another reason.

[rumborak]

Well, there's the obvious one, right? The Archangel Gabriel who was sent by God as a messenger to people.

[theseoafs]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

Yeah, well, this is the conclusion that every rock opera comes to.  Rush did the same thing with 2112 and Styx did the same thing with Kilroy, and so on and so forth.

Personally I'm going to try not to pay attention to the story all that much, and I'm definitely not going to try to ponder the symbolism of it all.

[MirrorMask]

Actually the album will be so great and awesome and wonderful that the entire world will realize that Dream Theater's kind of music is the one we should all listen to, in place of that plastic pop crap.

This will be the astonishing, the revelation to the world of what real music is 

[Prog Snob]

I instantly thought the name Gabriel was chosen as an homage to Peter Gabriel, as Genesis is considered one of the most influential bands in the progressive rock genre.  But I'm sure there's another reason.

As I mentioned earlier, it's more than likely a biblical reference. 

[Fritzinger]

I instantly thought the name Gabriel was chosen as an homage to Peter Gabriel, as Genesis is considered one of the most influential bands in the progressive rock genre.  But I'm sure there's another reason.

Thank God I thought I was the only one.

[Bardic Tortoise]

Hi. Long-time lurker, very infrequent commenter here.

I love the speculation on this thread. Just wanted to point out that it looks like JP's been doing some (climate-change related?) prognostication of his own when it comes to sea-level rise and the shapes of landmasses. It's interesting trying to guess what corresponds to what, and a lot is going to depend on what scale we're working at.

Personally, I'm having a hard time squaring the presence of Victory Island with any landmass -- it really doesn't seem to be right for Staten Island, unless we're really really zoomed into the New York metro area, or unless Staten Island has drifted out to sea considerably, or both. Also, it's way too big relative to Endless Iseland if Endless Isleland is, in fact, Long Island. Perhaps it's a new island created as a side effect of a long-ago war?

I noticed off to the top left of the map that where the white northern wastes come down (new glacier advance?) it looks like the outline of the border of New York state. If that's not just a coincidence, then that would give us an idea of scale. On that scale, Endless Isleland is much larger than our Long Island. (At any scale, Endless Iseland looks proportionally thicker than our Long Island.) Also on that scale, the little island off the top right tip of Endless Iseland that curls upward could easily be Cape Cod (though it would be somewhat counter-intuitive if Cape Cod where the only part of Massachusetts NOT under water, as I believe much of it is closer to sea-level than the Western part of the state--where I live!).

Anyway, cool thread.

[rumborak]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

Yeah, well, this is the conclusion that every rock opera comes to.  Rush did the same thing with 2112 and Styx did the same thing with Kilroy, and so on and so forth.

I'm not too familiar with the interpretation of 2112, but I never understood the character in 2112 to be an allegory to Rush themselves. That's what makes me a bit queasy here, where the musical rebel base is DT's home area.

[Prog Snob]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

Yeah, well, this is the conclusion that every rock opera comes to.  Rush did the same thing with 2112 and Styx did the same thing with Kilroy, and so on and so forth.

I'm not too familiar with the interpretation of 2112, but I never understood the character in 2112 to be an allegory to Rush themselves. That's what makes me a bit queasy here, where the musical rebel base is DT's home area.

It might not be a self-indulgent story saying that Dream Theater are the gift of music but an embellishment of their road to success in an industry that's gauged by flavors of the week and not musical ability (for the most part).

I actually really can't wait to be able to read more of those map locations and play with more allegory.   

[Podaar]

I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language. --J. R. R. Tolkien

[Prog Snob]

I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language. --J. R. R. Tolkien

I'm very familiar with Tolkien's dislike of allegory yet one can't ignore the fact that he created some of his mythos while in the trenches during WWI.

[Podaar]

Of course.

To me, the most important (and relevant) part of the quote is bolded below..

I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language. --J. R. R. Tolkien

I agree with this thought of his, and am using it to defend JP's "allegorical language" in order to create his new "myth or fairytale". Rumby's concern is valid if JP is deliberately trying to elevate the band's status as musical "saviors" but I'm certain that it is much more likely that the allegory is unintentional...or perhaps if intentional, without intended hubris.

[theseoafs]

I'm not too familiar with the interpretation of 2112, but I never understood the character in 2112 to be an allegory to Rush themselves. That's what makes me a bit queasy here, where the musical rebel base is DT's home area.

I mean, 2112's character certainly represents everything that the band saw in themselves at the time, and the force he fights against represents the forces Rush was struggling against at the time.  This has been repeatedly confirmed by inside and outside sources in the band.  The difference there is that 2112 isn't so on-the-nose about it all.

[Octavarious]

And again. Calllllllled it!!!


(to be perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping I would be wrong. Elevating their lyrical selves to be the saviors of music and society is a bit ... hmm.)

Unless Gabriel is Chris Collins.   

How could Gabriel be Collins? Collins himself never really made it to be Gabriel.
(Curtains)

[CoT67]

Now, I'm not an expert on US geography but by comparing the newly updated map with the Google one I noticed something... it seems as several patches of land are submerged, for example Endless Isleland is thinner compared to the actual Long Island and several other features of the coastline are changed... IMHO it doesn't feel like it was done just because they couldn't draw every single detail of a real map, since certain changes seem too different to really be just an approximation (example could be the bay over Endless Isleland).

Then, another thing I noticed is that the mountain range extends through the right, ending up to the south of Boston (which would be further away over the map's northern border I guess) where there should be no mountain range of that entity at all.

...maybe the world they're describing has been ravaged by environmental issues or storms, earthquakes and floods so much that it radically changed the landscape?
Or maybe it's just an artistic choice to base the map on the old, rough cartography of the Middle Ages/Renaissance, to keep in theme with the fantasy/Game of Thrones style?

Either way, I'm even more intrigued than before.

[Prog Snob]

Now, I'm not an expert on US geography but by comparing the newly updated map with the Google one I noticed something... it seems as several patches of land are submerged, for example Endless Isleland is thinner compared to the actual Long Island and several other features of the coastline are changed... IMHO it doesn't feel like it was done just because they couldn't draw every single detail of a real map, since certain changes seem too different to really be just an approximation (example could be the bay over Endless Isleland).

Then, another thing I noticed is that the mountain range extends through the right, ending up to the south of Boston (which would be further away over the map's northern border I guess) which, as far as I know, shouldn't even be there.

...maybe the world they're describing has been ravaged by environmental issues or storms, earthquakes and floods so much that it radically changed the landscape?
Or maybe it's just an artistic choice to base the map on the old, rough cartography of the Middle Ages/Renaissance, to keep in theme with the fantasy/Game of Thrones style?

Either way, I'm even more intrigued than before.

Or maybe they just don't want to make everything exact and decided to embellish reality somewhat.

[CoT67]

Now, I'm not an expert on US geography but by comparing the newly updated map with the Google one I noticed something... it seems as several patches of land are submerged, for example Endless Isleland is thinner compared to the actual Long Island and several other features of the coastline are changed... IMHO it doesn't feel like it was done just because they couldn't draw every single detail of a real map, since certain changes seem too different to really be just an approximation (example could be the bay over Endless Isleland).

Then, another thing I noticed is that the mountain range extends through the right, ending up to the south of Boston (which would be further away over the map's northern border I guess) which, as far as I know, shouldn't even be there.

...maybe the world they're describing has been ravaged by environmental issues or storms, earthquakes and floods so much that it radically changed the landscape?
Or maybe it's just an artistic choice to base the map on the old, rough cartography of the Middle Ages/Renaissance, to keep in theme with the fantasy/Game of Thrones style?

Either way, I'm even more intrigued than before.

Or maybe they just don't want to make everything exact and decided to embellish reality somewhat.

That would somehow follow the last speculation point, but we'll see.