2016-02-18 & 19 - Palladium, London UK

[pcs90]

Great video of Savior in the Square and When Your Time Has Come!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_mhh-7TcOY

WOW.....stunning.

That was really amazing. With the exception of a couple of vocal imperfections, it was flawless.

Agreed. James sounds much better on here compared to the previous night...huge improvement!

[Newspin]

Looking forward to my show on march 4th!

Still though, I think people are giving James too much slack because we all like him so much.

He DOES sound FANTASTIC on the album, but live... Only very few notes on this album are really high and still he seems to struggle with each and every one of them (granted, this observation is based on fractions of a couple of songs of the two first concerts).He also seems not to hold any of the notes particularly long, even if the songs warrents it!

I think we have to face it... Wacken 2015 was not the "odd one out". :-/ Hope he can up his game with more Astonishing concerts under his belt! 

[Prog Snob]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

[KevShmev]

Great video of Savior in the Square and When Your Time Has Come!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_mhh-7TcOY

That was such a joy to watch. Thanks for posting!

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

[Prog Snob]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

I understand where you're coming from and you're right in that the studio albums are what we'll be listening to for years. However, would you be intrigued by a singer who made this brilliant CD in the studio, but couldn't hit one note of it live? I find no entertainment in that. I can't listen to a band and then see them live and realize it sounds nothing like the studio record. Dream Theater are all about their live experience, especially with this recent tour, so to me saying it's just about the studio version and not the live version is just a cop out.

[pcs90]

It would be better if he changed some of the melodies for the tour. That way we still have the studio version exactly as intended, but live he wouldn't have to put as much strain on his voice. I mean, that might disappoint some people too, but it could help.

[krands85]

The thing I'd say with these vids is that they don't quite get across how much the visuals add to the atmosphere. The screens are not just at the back, but all at the sides of the front plus the drum riser. Especially if you're sat in the stalls, there are a number of points where it becomes incredibly immersive.

Yeah there's a cool bit in Descent of the NOMACs with the 2 loud sort of drones they give out at the end of the track - on the screens it looked like a soundwave propagating out from the NOMAC in the centre as it made the sound, almost like a 3D effect.

A lot of time I found it hard to really pay attention to the visuals though, as I was too transfixed on the actual band 

[KevShmev]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

I understand where you're coming from and you're right in that the studio albums are what we'll be listening to for years. However, would you be intrigued by a singer who made this brilliant CD in the studio, but couldn't hit one note of it live? I find no entertainment in that. I can't listen to a band and then see them live and realize it sounds nothing like the studio record. Dream Theater are all about their live experience, especially with this recent tour, so to me saying it's just about the studio version and not the live version is just a cop out.

JLB isn't like that, so not sure how that is relevant to this discussion. Yes, he struggles at times, but I couldn't care less.  If they took the approach of "only do in the studio what we can do live," a song like Take the Time, for example, would lose much of its awesomeness.  The advantage of making songs in the studio is to make everything sound as good as possible from a performance standpoint.

[ariich]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

Agreed entirely Kev.

However, would you be intrigued by a singer who made this brilliant CD in the studio, but couldn't hit one note of it live?

That's not the case, though.

Live performances always have imperfections. JR fluffed the sounds in Heaven's Cove. JP has made a couple of mistakes. That's part of the fun of the live experience. If James sounded outright bad, that would be one thing, but he doesn't.

[ErHaO]

While there are definately rough patches in the vocals and some part definitely do not sound smooth, I really think he sounds well overall. I can't listen to Wacken at all, every sentence sung is a trainwreck for the first half or so. Even the first TA show is a far, far cry from that one, based on cellphone vids. I see others mentioned it as well, but the old bootlegs I saw/heard sure as hell are not perfect either. But in part that is also due to his versatility, he can sings quite different in different songs and he simply pulls off some styles better.

Also, while these vids definately are able to present mistakes in pitching, pronounciation, timing, "faulthy technique" etc., do keep in mind that bootlegs and all are not fully representative of a performance. I have heard recordings of myself (and others) with my shitty laptop speakers and trough an actual microphone and the difference was big. In these vids, a huge chunk of the frequencies are completely drowned away. What I mean with this is that, while the notes and all remain the same, the sound quality matters as well for the total perception (just like quality matters a lot when recording instruments). In no way does this mean Labrie's mistakes or off sounding parts are not actually off, though.

Furthermore, I heavily disagree that a singer should not give his all in a studio. Studio recordings are art and I do not like giving yourself creative limitations based on future concerts/performances. I do, however, think a band should adjust to the limits of their vocalist in a live setting. In a way I admire that Labrie is a singer of no compromise, but I do wish he more often just deviates from a studio version and chooses to focus on sounding at his best. See what Sonata Arctica recently did, they adjusted all Ecliptica songs for Tony's voice nowadays and they kicked arse on tour, instead of him attempting those awkward high notes. Blind Guardian is another example of a band who adjust their songs to their vocalist.

[TAC]

Great video of Savior in the Square and When Your Time Has Come!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_mhh-7TcOY

That was such a joy to watch. Thanks for posting!

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

I totally agree Kev and have made this point many times. It's the studio albums that will live on.
As great as Zeppelin was, Plant was HORRENDOUS live.

[Prog Snob]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

I understand where you're coming from and you're right in that the studio albums are what we'll be listening to for years. However, would you be intrigued by a singer who made this brilliant CD in the studio, but couldn't hit one note of it live? I find no entertainment in that. I can't listen to a band and then see them live and realize it sounds nothing like the studio record. Dream Theater are all about their live experience, especially with this recent tour, so to me saying it's just about the studio version and not the live version is just a cop out.

JLB isn't like that, so not sure how that is relevant to this discussion. Yes, he struggles at times, but I couldn't care less.  If they took the approach of "only do in the studio what we can do live," a song like Take the Time, for example, would lose much of its awesomeness.  The advantage of making songs in the studio is to make everything sound as good as possible from a performance standpoint.

Then we'll just have to disagree. I don't see the point of playing a song live and have it filled with imperfections because the musicians involved could only play it the right way in the studio.

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

Totally disagree.  The studio albums are what most of us will be listening to for years, not the live stuff, so I say, go all out in the studio, even if you can't do it live.  JLB has always been somewhat of a mixed bag live, but I think most of us know that at this point.

Agreed entirely Kev.

However, would you be intrigued by a singer who made this brilliant CD in the studio, but couldn't hit one note of it live?

That's not the case, though.

Live performances always have imperfections. JR fluffed the sounds in Heaven's Cove. JP has made a couple of mistakes. That's part of the fun of the live experience. If James sounded outright bad, that would be one thing, but he doesn't.

Firstly, my point is that if you're okay with some mistakes, where do you draw the line then? When it does become too many mistakes to listen to? How about striving to make NO mistakes and not put oneself in the position that enhances the possibility of mistakes.

Secondly, you're comparing JR, who hardly makes mistakes, to JLB who misses notes on a nightly basis. I would understand if it's rare that he made mistakes live but that's not the case. Your analogy isn't really well constructed. Look, I'm not saying James is a terrible singer and that isn't what my original comment was suggesting. However, if you think a musician should only have to give us 90-95% on a nightly basis, then that's what you like, and don't assume we should all have look up to that same standard because people can't take criticism of their favorite musical artists.

[KevShmev]

Huh?  That doesn't make any sense.  A musician who makes a mistake live wasn't giving 100 percent?  Come on.  Mistakes happen live. Even the best musicians in the world mess up sometimes, and expecting a mistake-less show is simply unrealistic, especially when we are talking about someone's voice, which is far less predictable than a guitar or a keyboard, for example.

[ariich]

However, if you think a musician should only have to give us 90-95% on a nightly basis, then that's what you like, and don't assume we should all have look up to that same standard because people can't take criticism of their favorite musical artists.

I never said anything about criticism - if you don't like his performances that's totally your call and I never said there was anything wrong with that. What I was disagreeing with was you saying what he should and shouldn't do. You're welcome to dislike his performances (and I can understand why you would) but DT only writing simple easy vocal lines in a specific range is a ridiculous idea.

I would also point out that he hasn't actually struggled much with the high notes, or the parts where he needs to belt things out. Last night he actually sang those mostly really well (though with basically no annunciation). It was in the quiet bits that his pitching was inconsistent. So how exactly would they write parts differently in the studio?

[Prog Snob]

Huh?  That doesn't make any sense.  A musician who makes a mistake live wasn't giving 100 percent?  Come on.  Mistakes happen live. Even the best musicians in the world mess up sometimes, and expecting a mistake-less show is simply unrealistic, especially when we are talking about someone's voice, which is far less predictable than a guitar or a keyboard, for example.

Again, we're not talking about JR who might make a mistake once in a blue moon. We're talking about JLB who has missed the same notes night after night in the past. There is a clear difference between the two. Maybe he should readjust the melodies live so he doesn't strain his voice. I've listened to hundreds of bootlegs and can tell you that it doesn't sound pretty when he pushes his voice where it can't go.

However, if you think a musician should only have to give us 90-95% on a nightly basis, then that's what you like, and don't assume we should all have look up to that same standard because people can't take criticism of their favorite musical artists.

I never said anything about criticism - if you don't like his performances that's totally your call and I never said there was anything wrong with that. What I was disagreeing with was you saying what he should and shouldn't do. You're welcome to dislike his performances (and I can understand why you would) but DT only writing simple easy vocal lines in a specific range is a ridiculous idea.

I would also point out that he hasn't actually struggled much with the high notes, or the parts where he needs to belt things out. Last night he actually sang those mostly really well (though with basically no annunciation). It was in the quiet bits that his pitching was inconsistent. So how exactly would they write parts differently in the studio?

Nobody said DT has to write simple vocal lines. Just because they aren't difficult doesn't mean the alternative is easy. There's a whole spectrum between difficult and easy.

I know the first two nights his voice was wavering in the quiet parts. I have listened to most of the tracks from both nights. If the quiet bits are giving him a hard time, then maybe it's something with his voice, something that he needs to work on. Or maybe it's just the opening nights of the show and he needs to adjust a bit better.

[evz]

Or maybe the fact that they had to use the in house PA rather than their own gave some monitoring issues for the quiet parts? 

[RoeDent]

Studio albums are the most important thing. That's a band's legacy, what they are remembered for. Hopefully DT would still continue to make studio albums even if they ever decide to stop touring.

[Mladen]

Guys, it's not like LaBrie isn't going to warm up during the tour, he just needs a few more shows, the beginning of the tour is always tough on him. Mark my words, we're gonna tune in two weeks from now and be blown away.

[Enigmachine]

Well, I thought JLB was great on the 18th. A few enunciation issues where I couldn't hear what the hell he was saying and a few mistakes (end of Walking Shadow and simplifying melody in Act of Faythe, but both were handled well), but pretty much a great performance otherwise. He also pulled off the high note in TRTR, which is really impressive (though would've liked to see him do the screams in TWS as well as the one at the end of MLF, but I didn't mind that too much, he does have to keep his voice intact).

[lovethedrake]

Honestly I could care less if Labrie can hit the notes in a live setting.  I would much rather him push himself on the studio recordings and keep it safe during the live shows.   A live show is one night thing for most people while the studio albums live on forever for everybody.

[Prog Snob]

Guys, it's not like LaBrie isn't going to warm up during the tour, he just needs a few more shows, the beginning of the tour is always tough on him. Mark my words, we're gonna tune in two weeks from now and be blown away.

That's sort of what I was thinking. Maybe he needs a bit more time to acclimate to the new material. It took quite a few shows before Space Dye Vest sounded really good during the last tour.

[GuitarWizard]

This has just been put up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGUZwXIr3IM

It's only audio but I think you can imagine the visual. I have a few more if you think the quality is good enough.

[SebastianPratesi]

Here's a question (it might belong to another thread, but I think it might contain spoilers of the live show, so I decided to place it here).

For some time I've thought it was weird that trumpets play when Nafaryus & co. arrive at Ravenskill in "A Savior In The Square". Then, I reasoned that they are a symbolic representation in the album, and that maybe no one plays trumpets in the 'real' event. But, I just watched the live video of the song, and the screens clearly show trumpets - i.e.: other people (presumably Imperial Musicians) play music besides Gabriel.

An easy solution would be that there are other musicians in the Empire - it's just that Gabriel is the only one Arhys (and Ravenskill) knows, and that's why his obsession is such a major part of the plot. But, then again, doesn't Nafaryus decide to visit Ravenskill partly* to meet this 'Chosen One'? Doesn't the plot imply that Gabriel is the first musician Faythe ever meets (after years of listening to her MP3s)?

Thoughts? Maybe I'm missing something, or overthinking

*I know the most important reason of his visit is because he has learned of an uprising, but still.

[fischermasamune]

I don't think you should take the screen that seriously. I guess the person responsible for it just found it fitting, and the band wasn't diligent enough to realize.

[BlobVanDam]

I hadn't thought about that, and I'd already seen the video for that particular song. I guess you could also take the video show as symbolically as the music.

Or maybe it's perfectly fine as a special case for Nafaryus' party to play the trumpets to signal his arrival because it's pre-written (by the NOMACS?). Keeping in mind that the purpose of the NOMACS is to crap out shitty music, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch that some type of music is acceptable in some contexts by the king's order. It may be related to his secret past of loving music too.
Maybe what makes Gabriel special is not only the ability to play an instrument nobody has seen before proficiently, and sing well, but also a unique ability to compose music, which is an art that has been lost to the NOMACS for a long time. The leaders may believe that playing and hearing music that isn't pre-approved and written by the NOMACS might stir up too much inspiration and rebellion in the people?

I don't know. I say just roll with it.

[SebastianPratesi]

I hadn't thought about that, and I'd already seen the video for that particular song. I guess you could also take the video show as symbolically as the music.

Or maybe it's perfectly fine as a special case for Nafaryus' party to play the trumpets to signal his arrival because it's pre-written (by the NOMACS?). Keeping in mind that the purpose of the NOMACS is to crap out shitty music, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch that some type of music is acceptable in some contexts by the king's order. It may be related to his secret past of loving music too.
Maybe what makes Gabriel special is not only the ability to play an instrument nobody has seen before proficiently, and sing well, but also a unique ability to compose music, which is an art that has been lost to the NOMACS for a long time. The leaders may believe that playing and hearing music that isn't pre-approved and written by the NOMACS might stir up too much inspiration and rebellion in the people?

I don't know. I say just roll with it.

I like your analysis, makes sense to me

Moving on: I saw a clip of "Dystopian Overture". Holy crap, they played the sword-fight theme (you know, the one which showcases every instrument, even the orchestra) as if it was a piece of cake. That moment must have brought up a smile on everyone in the show.

[ariich]

The videos are definitely meant symbolically. For example, the weird Xander/raven hybrid appears in A Tempting Offer, and symbolises him being lifted to a better life in the empire. It was still pretty bizarre, but kinda made sense in context.

[SebastianPratesi]

The videos are definitely meant symbolically. For example, the weird Xander/raven hybrid appears in A Tempting Offer, and symbolises him being lifted to a better life in the empire. It was still pretty bizarre, but kinda made sense in context.

Thanks! I wanted to know what song that part of the video would go in.

[gspdt]

What an amazing two nights @ Palladium. Even though they playing the same set (no surprise there) they were very different shows.

We were sat in row B Stalls (centre stage) on the first night You could see how tense the band were and they sounded tight! JP seemed very nervous (even though he had this wife and daugther in the royal box for extra support).
The band were set up back from the stage edge presumably to avoid the front section of stage that was put over the orchestra pit! They were so nervous that they wouldn't stand on it all night! The sound was a bit off at the beginning but improved. JLB vocals were down in the mix but this may have been due to my seat postion. Brilliant opener to the tour.

The second night I was front row of the dress circle. It was actually better here for the sound and visuals, and still had a very close view of the band. They were really relaxed and the audience were much more animated. JLB even said a couple of words. A few mistakes were made (the obvious one being JRs' keyboards going crazy at one point and putting out some strange sound) but overall it was better than the first night.
Stayed behind afterwards and hung around the rear exit to catch the band but there was no show. The small crowd were entertained by the roadcrew loading the truck and amused when for some reason they had to empty the truck half way through - guess they had a boxes in the wrong order for unloading next gig. They might get it right by the end of the tour!!

This was my 3rd two-nighter with DT in London - Astoria (6DOIT), Hammersmith Apollo (Octavarium) and now Palladium (TA). All great in their own ways - Amazing memories!

Thank you DT.

[escruting]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

And what about the times when he forces himself on places where the album version is not forcing? He does this a lot too and its even worse than the other thing, because he is forcing just for the sake of it. I'm sure that if you've seen them live or seen their dvds can come up with a couple dozen times he does what i'm talking about.

[Prog Snob]

You're right. Some people give JLB too much slack and it's probably because we all do love him as a singer. However, it's absent-minded not to point out his mistakes and act like he is infallible. He's still one of my favorite singers, and for a 53 year old he kicks ass vocally, but he should stop pushing his voice in the studio if he won't able to handle it live. Just my opinion.

And what about the times when he forces himself on places where the album version is not forcing? He does this a lot too and its even worse than the other thing, because he is forcing just for the sake of it. I'm sure that if you've seen them live or seen their dvds can come up with a couple dozen times he does what i'm talking about.

I've seen him in a live setting a couple of dozen times, plus I've literally listened to hundreds of bootlegs so it's not that hard to pick out those moments.    He should stay within his comfort zone because not only does it sound bad, but I'm sure it's not doing his voice any favors.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

This is another example, in my opinion, of people being a little too hard on Dream Theater for problems that pretty much all other bands have. There aren't a lot of older vocalists out there who still kill it every night. James Hetfield has struggled for years, Geddy Lee stopped singing some songs entirely, and even the great Bruce Dickinson doesn't nail every note anymore. It's just the reality of being a 50+ year-old singer. Live shows are more about the atmosphere anyway. Maybe the band could compensate by down-tuning some of their songs? I dunno. All things considered, I still think James sounds pretty good.

[ariich]

Bruce Dickinson is about as consistent as JLB, so that's a good comparison.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I don't think you should take the screen that seriously. I guess the person responsible for it just found it fitting, and the band wasn't diligent enough to realize.

I didnt catch the trumpets being out of place thing.  But now that i think about it, it is a pretty big mistake with regards to the storyline. From the way Faythe and everone else acts, there is no music besides the nomacs and her secret digital player right?  Also.... Arent the trumpets on the album too? If so.... Then it had to be known by JP yeah?

[ResultsMayVary]

I don't think you should take the screen that seriously. I guess the person responsible for it just found it fitting, and the band wasn't diligent enough to realize.

I didnt catch the trumpets being out of place thing.  But now that i think about it, it is a pretty big mistake with regards to the storyline. From the way Faythe and everone else acts, there is no music besides the nomacs and her secret digital player right?  Also.... Arent the trumpets on the album too? If so.... Then it had to be known by JP yeah?

Unless our underlying assumption/knowledge of the story is wrong. A possibility, of course.