Epics that you find overrated?

[hefdaddy42]

The thing isn't about liking or disliking ITPOE

What?  Of course it is.

if you say something is ''overrated'', you mean it's objectively bad, not subjectively.

No no no.

Someone who studied musical theory will easily get that ITPOE is one of the most musically complex and difficult to come up with songs by DT.

I doubt that.

[King Postwhore]

It can be complex and difficult and still be bad.

[Shine]

I actually only consider a few songs epics. Those would be ACOS, SDOIT, Octavarium, ITPOE and Illumination Theory.

Out of those, I only like Octavarium and ITPOE.
ACOS and SDOIT are a disjointed mess and Illumination Theory is ruined by horrible production and guitar tones.

Exactly this.

Octavarium is very good, Dream Theater's best epic. ITPOE is also very good, but typically not considered among the best by the fanbase. ACOS is seen as being on a similar level to Octavarium, but it isn't – overrated. Likewise with SDOIT. Illumination Theory had promise, but could have used some cutting-down, would have worked better as a ~15 minute song. I wouldn't call it overrated, but that's just because it's not rated highly to begin with.

[KevShmev]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song," plus it seems like quite a few rank it next to or above ACOS and/or 8V, which is just crazy to me, but to each their own.   It would be boring if we all liked the songs that same amount.

Also, ITPOE isn't overrated because it rarely gets rated highly, and for good reason.

[Sacul]

TCOT I always found way overrated - not bad, and has some great moments, but also has some cringe-y ones while not unmemorable or meh.

[Fluffy Lothario]

I've never been one for DT's epics, so all of them.

They have tons of great songs in the 8-12 minute range, but I would genuinely struggle to think of a song of theirs over 12 minutes that I like much at all.

[Madman Shepherd]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song,"

Exactly.  And while the band is technically the final say over what is considered a song or not, they also list the individual movements as songs on some of their live albums.  What if your first DT album is Live at Budokan?  You ask your friends, "you know the song War inside my head?" and now you friend has to correct you that it is not a song, but a movement within a song.  Well, for the past several months your impression is that is is a song because essentially DT has told you it is.  Kinda makes the argument that 6DOIT is only one song a bit more murky. 

[jjrock88]

I enjoy them all.

[Anguyen92]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song,"

Yep.

As for the answer to the question, I'm going to say Octavarium.  It's not like it's a bad song itself.  To me, it feels a bit disjointed and I felt like the intro was just killing time, honestly.

[Lucien]

All of em

[BlobVanDam]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song,"

Exactly.  And while the band is technically the final say over what is considered a song or not, they also list the individual movements as songs on some of their live albums.  What if your first DT album is Live at Budokan?  You ask your friends, "you know the song War inside my head?" and now you friend has to correct you that it is not a song, but a movement within a song.  Well, for the past several months your impression is that is is a song because essentially DT has told you it is.  Kinda makes the argument that 6DOIT is only one song a bit more murky. 

ACOS was also regularly played chopped up into sections. Having to cut up a long minute song for the sake of fitting it in a live set for people to hear is not an argument against it being a song.
And SDOIT wasn't stitched together for the sake of being a long song at all. It was written from the very start as one song with a particular structure, and ended up being longer than they anticipated. It came naturally, and not as the obligatory 20 minute prog epic.

[KevShmev]

Okay, but I didn't say that it was stitched together; I said it sounded like it was stitched together.  Important distinction.

[manticore999]

I never got what everyone sees in ACOS.  I don't think I've ever made it all the way through it - it just hold no interest to me.  Also not a fan of the song 8VM - it's ok once it gets started but that 2 hour (seems like it, anyway) intro just kills it for me.  There are many others, but these are the first 2 I thought of.

[jammindude]

As far as my knowledge of the general opinions of the epics, I don't think any of them are overrated. 

They are all rated pretty much where they ought to be.

Pretty much. ITPOE and IT I can't see as overrated simply because they're not even rated that highly in the first place. ACOS and 8V more or less deserve the praise they get.

I would agree with ITPOE.    That was *easily* my first thought, but then it occurred to me that it's not really that well liked in the first place, so I don't think I'd call it overrated at all.   

IT is probably most people's "second least" favorite.   Which, to me, would make it underrated.

[npiazza91]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song,"

Exactly.  And while the band is technically the final say over what is considered a song or not, they also list the individual movements as songs on some of their live albums.  What if your first DT album is Live at Budokan?  You ask your friends, "you know the song War inside my head?" and now you friend has to correct you that it is not a song, but a movement within a song.  Well, for the past several months your impression is that is is a song because essentially DT has told you it is.  Kinda makes the argument that 6DOIT is only one song a bit more murky.

As much as I love SDOIT, I have to agree.  I really wish I never listened to each "movement" by themselves before I familiarized myself with the whole thing.  I listened to the entire 42 minutes in one go when I first heard it, and at the time I couldn't tell you where each movement ended and started.  Then when I saw that each movement was its own "song" that I can listen to individually I got excited because I thought it would help me familiarize myself with the whole thing better (a 42 minute song on its own is very hard to "memorize" so to speak).  Now, looking back, I wish I hadn't done that, because even when I listen to the full thing, I still think of it as more of an album than one song.  There's a certain mystery aspect to a long song that you are still trying to learn and I feel that if I still thought of it as one song I would appreciate the whole song much more today.  Imagine if Octavarium was split into 5 parts, or something, it wouldn't be the same.  I actually think the reason why a lot of people think it doesn't flow that well as one full song is because a lot of us are so used to listening to the movements individually, and it's ingrained in our minds that way.  I mean, how many of us actually learned the whole thing before we started listening to the segments individually?  I really wish it was all one track.

[BlackInk]

I'd say splitting it into different tracks was a smart move. I think it would be very hard for me to find the motivation to listen through a 42 minute track.

[kirksnosehair]

I've never gotten the hype over Octavarium the song or the album. 

[Dreamer81]

I've never gotten the hype over Octavarium the song or the album.

+1

[The Stray Seed]

I don't know what is overrated, but Dream Theater (the band) sure is underrated.

[Lucien]

I don't know what is overrated, but Dream Theater (the band) sure is underrated.

I disagree

[Kotowboy]

I've never gotten the hype over Octavarium the song or the album.

It is both their best album and song.


#HopeThisHelps

[Darkstarshades]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

[Crow]

i don't know if i've ever listened to the SDOIT movements separately because when I ripped the album, I ripped the entire disc as one track 
it's just not very cohesive, either way

[IDontNotDoThings]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

[jakepriest]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

So would I. I wish Another World was a standalone song though.

[Train of Naught]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

What.

[devieira73]

I would agree that 6DOIT is "overrated" (not a word I like) in the sense that while it is technically one song, it sounds like a bunch of short songs stitched together and called one song for the sake of being able to say, "We have a 42-minute song," plus it seems like quite a few rank it next to or above ACOS and/or 8V, which is just crazy to me, but to each their own.   It would be boring if we all liked the songs that same amount.

Also, ITPOE isn't overrated because it rarely gets rated highly, and for good reason.

I love 6doit, but, regardless DT's intention, I've always heard it as a conceptual cd, with individual songs that are sonic and thematically related.

[hefdaddy42]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

This is not the "Controversial Opinions" thread.

[Darkstarshades]

I'd take I walk beside you over ACOS anytime.

This is not the "Controversial Opinions" thread.

No, but that's just how overrated I find ACOS

[RandalGraves]

TMOLS and Outcry. I'm lumping these two together because I seem to have the same issue with both of them, which generally is the inverse opinion of everyone else: I like the crazy instrumental bits but not the rest of the song. In regard to TMOLS, the main theme that starts the song is so annoying, and it's so in your face. The melodies and lyrics are just grating for me. Outcry is kinda the same, although I'm a bit more ambivalent towards it.

[jakepriest]

TMOLS and Outcry. I'm lumping these two together because I seem to have the same issue with both of them, which generally is the inverse opinion of everyone else: I like the crazy instrumental bits but not the rest of the song. In regard to TMOLS, the main theme that starts the song is so annoying, and it's so in your face. The melodies and lyrics are just grating for me. Outcry is kinda the same, although I'm a bit more ambivalent towards it.

I don't think either of those are considered epics tbh.

[Dublagent66]

LOL the words "epics" and "overrated" in the same thread title.   Sure doesn't leave much room for heated debate or anything.   

[Rodni Demental]

TMOLS and Outcry. I'm lumping these two together because I seem to have the same issue with both of them, which generally is the inverse opinion of everyone else: I like the crazy instrumental bits but not the rest of the song. In regard to TMOLS, the main theme that starts the song is so annoying, and it's so in your face. The melodies and lyrics are just grating for me. Outcry is kinda the same, although I'm a bit more ambivalent towards it.

I don't think either of those are considered epics tbh.

I guess they're not epics among all the Dream Theater songs. I think we all have our own ideas about what makes something epic and we probably don't need to go into it again in extra detail. But I'll just say, if almost any other band wrote something structured at all like TMOLS and Outcry are, I'd probably call them epic pieces.

[hefdaddy42]

TMOLS and Outcry. I'm lumping these two together because I seem to have the same issue with both of them, which generally is the inverse opinion of everyone else: I like the crazy instrumental bits but not the rest of the song. In regard to TMOLS, the main theme that starts the song is so annoying, and it's so in your face. The melodies and lyrics are just grating for me. Outcry is kinda the same, although I'm a bit more ambivalent towards it.

I don't think either of those are considered epics tbh.

Me either.

But whatever.

[TheCountOfNYC]

According to the band, they have six epics: A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies, The Count of Tuscany, and Illumination Theory. On these forums, a lot of people don't consider TCoT an epic and a small minority consider A Mind Beside Itself to be an epic instead of a suite. I have also seen posts claiming that The Twelve-Step Suite is an epic but those are very rare. Really anything shorter than TCoT but over 10 minutes (along with the 9:31 Metropolis) is usually called a mini-epic.