Why does Octavarium feel so much shorter than it is?

[Chino]

It feels shorter when I skip the first 4.5 minutes or so.

[CDrice]

I used to think that 24 minutes was very long for a song, but then I took a six degrees of inner turbulence to the face...

[SuperTaco]

To me, it feels exactly as it should. It's my favorite song of all time, and when I listen to it, I give it my full undivided attention.

Songs really fly by when I'm doing something else while listening, such as surfing the net or playing video games or cleaning a room. Perhaps this contributes to some of us thinking that it feels shorter than it is.

[?]

Octavarium feels 0 seconds long, because I never listen to it.

[Dublagent66]

Octavarium > > The Count Of Tuscany > > Illumination Theory > > > > > A Change Of Seasons.

REPORTED.

[Kotowboy]

Octavarium > > The Count Of Tuscany > > Illumination Theory > > > > > A Change Of Seasons.

I don't see your ranking...

[Dublagent66]

ACOS > > Octavarium > > The Count Of Tuscany > > > > > lightyears > > > > > Illumination Theory

[Kotowboy]

At least Octavarium is second

[Darkstarshades]

Lightyears? I don't know that... unless...
Omg... You... You're a time traveler and that's the next epic?
So it's worse than TCOT... Sad...

[ToT-147]

Octavarium > > The Count Of Tuscany > > Illumination Theory > > > > > A Change Of Seasons.

I'd switch Octavarium and TCoT, but yeah... ACoS is pretty average.. Nothing so great about that tune, besides its first two instrumentals and Another World..

[ResultsMayVary]

You know people here on DTF can't ignore posting rankings for songs...

Octavarium > A Change of Seasons > Illumination Theory > The Count of Tuscany

[Madman Shepherd]

Illumination Theory>ITPOE>........ACOS>8V>...............................TCOT


Is there a reason why you guys haven't been including ITPOE?

[ResultsMayVary]

I was personally just following their lead, but if I did include ITPOE, it would be second to last.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I guess I'll post my ranking of the epics as well:

Octavarium>The Count of Tuscany>A Change of Seasons>Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence>Illumination Theory>In the Presence of Enemies

[Kotowboy]

Forgot about six degrees.....

That would be my 2nd favourite.

[ToT-147]

Illumination Theory>ITPOE>........ACOS>8V>...............................TCOT

Is there a reason why you guys haven't been including ITPOE?

If you mean the second part, because it's only 16 minutes long.. And if I add it, then I should add ANtR too, and why not TMoLS, etc... I thought it's about songs between 19 and 24 minutes.. That's why 6DoIT is not included either.. I guess..

Edit: well, not anymore , so I'll put my song ranking from 15 minutes onwards:

1- The Count of Tuscany

2- The Ministry of Lost Souls

3- Octavarium

4- A Nightmare to Remember

5- In the Presence of Enemies pt2

6- Illumination Theory

7- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

8- A Change of Seasons

[IDontNotDoThings]

Personally, I think the fact that Octavarium flies by so quickly is one of the reasons I don't really enjoy it as much as other epics. The song builds itself up so much & hearing some of these sections, you could tell just how epic they were hoping the song to be. I'll admit, Someone Like Him gives me chills every time (even the needlessly extended opening to an extent), every time I get to the screaming in Intervals, I'm like "...holy shit...  ", & I don't think there can be a possibly be a more climatic & satisfying closer to a song than Razor's Edge (& if there is, I haven't heard it), but when you get down to it, that's just the opening & closing of the song. The actual meat of the production is only limited to two sections (i.e. Medicate & Full Circle), & these sections are really only decent, not just in comparison, but even if they were in another better epic, they'd probably be the weakest link of it & would weigh its new song down as a result. Medicate is an extremely light, calm section that (while I'd understand the appeal) doesn't really do much for me, while Full Circle feels like a wannabe/filler track based on other songs off the album. My point is, Octavaium doesn't really give itself enough room to flourish because it goes by so quickly, because it's leaving you in suspense for what's happening next so much that it doesn't really follow up on it a lot of the time.

Also, if I may join in on the ranking:
1. A Change Of Seasons
2. A Mind Beside Itself (it's one song damnit)
3. In The Presence Of Enemies
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
6. Octavarium
7. Illumination Theory

Also again, to the guy above me, TMoLS is 14:57, so 

[ToT-147]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

[hefdaddy42]

A Mind Beside Itself (it's one song damnit)

Nope.

[Kotowboy]

A Mind Beside Itself (it's one song damnit)

Nope.

And nor is six degrees

[ZirconBlue]

Does anyone else feel like Octavarium is much shorter than 24 minutes?

The intro alone feels like 24 minutes to me.  Especially the live version.

[CDrice]

Because it eeeends wheeere iiiit begiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins

[IDontNotDoThings]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

Well if we're going to count ItPoE as one song even though it was technically broken up into two tracks, & Six Degrees even though it was split into eight tracks, I figured I might as well count A Mind Beside Itself even though it was broke up into three (since I rarely listen to the songs separately anyway).

[Rodni Demental]

Don't worry, I tried to convince people that it's a single entity when I first got here. 
But I think the way people see it is the separation of tracks is more-so apparent in this piece than any of the other examples making it a lot easier to identify with them individually. And the connection between the songs is not as obvious as say; the relationship between the 12SS songs and it's doubtful we'd try lump them all together as those tracks still stand on there own.  Also, Six Degrees, ACOS, ITPOE, 8vm, TCOT etc. all have various excuses or reasons for why and how they slightly differ from each other, that we pretty much can't put any of them in the same category as another. 

What I want to know is what the concept was for A Mind Beside Itself during the writing process. At what stage did they decide to make it a suite of songs, and how early did they decide on the concept as far as relating some of the musical and lyrical themes? Because if we knew more about how these songs were written then the data might be more compelling than our general fan consensus. But really at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we define the music, the music will always speak for itself without any of that anyway. Plus, it really just comes down to presentation preferences of the artist and is more about that than categorisation and definitions.

[ToT-147]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

Well if we're going to count ItPoE as one song even though it was technically broken up into two tracks, & Six Degrees even though it was split into eight tracks, I figured I might as well count A Mind Beside Itself even though it was broke up into three (since I rarely listen to the songs separately anyway).

In fact, you're talking to the guy who debated against a bunch of stubborn people who dared to refuse the idea of considering ItPoE as two songs, as they really are.. (See that long but rich discussion in this thread..)

The thing is this: ItPoE are two separate tracks, each one with parts in it (I&II, and III-VI respectively), which I personally consider two songs too.. (One song with six songs between? Nope, that still doesn't make any sense) SDoIT is one song, with eight parts, which are also eight tracks, only for CD's format conveniences.. And (again), AMBI is a suite, not a song.. It's a suite, just like the 12SS, or the Metallica's Unforgivens..

[IDontNotDoThings]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

Well if we're going to count ItPoE as one song even though it was technically broken up into two tracks, & Six Degrees even though it was split into eight tracks, I figured I might as well count A Mind Beside Itself even though it was broke up into three (since I rarely listen to the songs separately anyway).

In fact, you're talking to the guy who debated against a bunch of stubborn people who dared to refuse the idea of considering ItPoE as two songs, as they really are.. (See that long but rich discussion in this thread..)

The thing is this: ItPoE are two separate tracks, each one with parts in it (I&II, and III-VI respectively), which I personally consider two songs too.. (One song with six songs between? Nope, that still doesn't make any sense) SDoIT is one song, with eight parts, which are also eight tracks, only for CD's format conveniences.. And (again), AMBI is a suite, not a song.. It's a suite, just like the 12SS, or the Metallica's Unforgivens..

Generally how I look at it is that if a song is broken up into noted parts & all those parts appear on the same album, I consider it one song. Often the tracks benefit greatly when I play them together, so I'm going to be playing them together whenever I listen to it anyway.

Also, how do we know AMBI wasn't split up for CD conveniences? After all, combined, it was DT's longest song at the time (not counting ACoS demos, which the label initially refused to release due to length anyway), & considering TSM was released as the lead single from Awake, it could be entirely possible that they wanted listeners to be able to get to (what they hoped would be) the big single they heard on the radio right away. For all we know, that could be the only reason they split it up, which would make it no different than Six Degrees in that regard.

As you said in that thread though, it's subjective, so eh...

[BlobVanDam]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

Well if we're going to count ItPoE as one song even though it was technically broken up into two tracks, & Six Degrees even though it was split into eight tracks, I figured I might as well count A Mind Beside Itself even though it was broke up into three (since I rarely listen to the songs separately anyway).

In fact, you're talking to the guy who debated against a bunch of stubborn people who dared to refuse the idea of considering ItPoE as two songs, as they really are.. (See that long but rich discussion in this thread..)

If you still haven't accepted that ITPOE is in fact one song based on every single person on DTF disagreeing with you, then maybe it's you who's stubborn.

[King Postwhore]

I don't except it either. Maybe because I never played them back to back.  I know, weird for a DT geek like myself but I never did!

[hefdaddy42]

Also, to the guy above me: A Mind Beside Itself is not a song, but a suite consisting of three songs.. So

Well if we're going to count ItPoE as one song even though it was technically broken up into two tracks, & Six Degrees even though it was split into eight tracks, I figured I might as well count A Mind Beside Itself even though it was broke up into three (since I rarely listen to the songs separately anyway).

In fact, you're talking to the guy who debated against a bunch of stubborn people who dared to refuse the idea of considering ItPoE as two songs, as they really are.. (See that long but rich discussion in this thread..)

If you still haven't accepted that ITPOE is in fact one song based on every single person on DTF disagreeing with you, then maybe it's you who's stubborn.

This.  We can argue all kinds of things, but ITPOE is one song.

[IDontNotDoThings]

If you still haven't accepted that ITPOE is in fact one song based on every single person on DTF disagreeing with you, then maybe it's you who's stubborn.

This.  We can argue all kinds of things, but ITPOE is one song.

Cool, now can we get back on topic plz?

[SS_0086]

Aside from the continuum intro, each of the sections seamlessly flow into one another (still love the intro). Not to mention one of petrucci's best guitar solos in razor's edge! That solo alone inspired me to get the metronome out and practice studiously.