Rank Systematic Chaos from worst to best

[BlobVanDam]

FFS, give up!

[jammindude]

Bet you a beer that it's John Myung and this is the greatest troll in the history of DTF.   

[genome]

Does it actually matter?

[JayOctavarium]

ITPoE  is a single song that has 2 parts that can also stand alone as individual songs giving the context.



/thread

[BlackInk]

Oh Jay, if only it was that easy.

[bosk1]

We don't know everything is on their minds, so about some stuff we can easily use our free expresion ability to have a posture about unclear things like these..

But that's the thing, though: there is nothing unclear about this matter at all.  The band themselves have said it is one song.  That's it.  Period.  They wrote the song, they get to say what it is.  Bosk already pointed out that the only reason why it was divided into two tracks was because the band could not decide if it was better to have it at the beginning or end of the album. Their decision had nothing to do with making ITPOE into two distinct "songs", and was done purely for the sake of album flow. 

There is no room for debate about this.  The artists who created the piece have said what it is, and, as the creators, they are the ones who get to define the nature of their work.  It's one song, two tracks.  That's it. 

Once again, this is correct.  It is not even debatable once you know that the band has weighed in on the subject.  It is only unclear to those who do not know the history of the song and simply see two separate tracks on the album.  But knowing what the band have said about it, there is no argument that can be made to the contrary.  It is objective, provable fact.

[IdoSC]

ITPoE  is a single song that has 2 parts that can also stand alone as individual songs giving the context.



/offtopicdiscussion

FTFY

[JayOctavarium]

ITPoE  is a single song that has 2 parts that can also stand alone as individual songs giving the context.



/offtopicdiscussion

FTFY

[pdurbin22]

Treating ITPOE as one song:

7) Constant Motion
6) Prophets of Ware
5) Repentance
4) The Ministry of Lost Souls
3) The Dark Eternal Night
2) Forsaken
1) In the Presence of Enemies

[Dublagent66]

Well, I was going to post my rankings but now I just can't decide which song I like more.  ITPOE or ITPOE.      

[Cable]

 

[npiazza91]

7. The Ministry of Lost Souls- Never got into this song.  It feels even longer than it is and it doesn't really do anything for me.

6. Repentance- It's ok,  but by far the weakest in 12 Step Suite.

5. Constant motion- I used to love it but it's WAY overplayed for me.

4. Prophets of War- Decent song I guess.  No real feelings on it either way.

3. Forsaken- Good song, very catchy, very solid.  Nice break from the epics.

2. In the Presence of Enemies- I prefer Part 1 to Part 2 but it's still a great song nonetheless.

1. The Dark Eternal Night- You guys are gonna hate me.  I just love this song.  Easily top 50 for me.  It is so cheesy that it's amazing.  Love the vocals, the riffs, the instrumental section, love it all.  Sorry guys.

[BlackInk]

Hey, TDEN did what it tried to do perfectly. And the instrumental section is admittedly great.

[Train of Naught]

Hey, TDEN did what it tried to do perfectly. And the instrumental section is admittedly great.

This. I don't get the hate for TDEN, great break from all the seriousness, and face it, when you hear this live, you are going apeshit whether you like the song or not.

[Cable]

I fake vomited the last time I heard TDEN live. I do not like the song, to me it is a mis-mash of stuff that doesn't work (choruses, instrumental section), with some stuff isn't bad (verses, intro and breakdown riff) with a bass drum that is way too hot on the album.

Sorry, not my thing at all. I can also get why others like it. I cannot say it will never be my thing, but I do not go crazy when I hear it live. It is bottom five DT song for me, and I honestly cannot think of anything better than it at this moment. 

[Randaran]

1. The Dark Eternal Night- You guys are gonna hate me.  I just love this song.  Easily top 50 for me.  It is so cheesy that it's amazing.  Love the vocals, the riffs, the instrumental section, love it all.  Sorry guys.

Don't worry. I consider TDEN to be a top 10 DT song.

[CharlesPL]

You guys are gonna hate me

[Outcrier]

1. In the Presence of Enemies
2. The Dark Eternal Night
3. Constant Motion
4. The Ministry of Lost Souls
5. Repentance
6. Forsaken
7. Prophets of War

[AnnaZ]

7. The Dark Eternal Night
6. Forsaken
5. Prophets of War
4. Constant Motion
3. Repentance
2. The Ministry of Lost Souls
1. In the Presence of Enemies

[matthewmatt]

Hi, mine is:

7. Prophets of War (the only song I seriously dislike)
6. Repentance (it's nice, atmospheric, it's something different for a change, but it kind of drags after a while and the "spoken apology" section was never my favourite, the guys involved notwithstanding)

5. Forsaken (Yeah, Twilight, babyyy!  )
4. Ministry of Lost Souls
3. Constant Motion
2. Dark Eternal Night
1. In the Presence of Enemies (as a whole, but if forced to pick the part I like better, it would be probably, probably the second one)

[nightmare_cinema]

Hmm interesting one to rank...

8. Repentance - I can appreciate this song for what it is, a bit of a breather amongst the freneticism of the rest of the AA suite, it's kinda a nice lull when you listen to the suite as a whole but I find it pretty boring in itself.

7. Constant Motion - I don't actively dislike this either, for what it is it's great, but it doesn't make me feel a whole lot.

6. Ministry of Lost Souls - I really dislike the opening to this track and the whole ballady chorus stuff going on but the instrumental section is really good, not their best by a long shot but very enjoyable. I'd just never choose to go and put it on. In fact I hardly ever listen to it.

5. The Dark Eternal Night - Great track, DT at their most fun, I really dig it. It's hard and bouncy and doesn't take itself too seriously. Although I genuinely can't listen to it without hearing the Mario Bros mash up in my mind anymore

4. Forsaken - I actually love this song, to me it's always been about DT scrapping their progressive side and simply writing a straight forward nu-metal style heavy ballad, but doing it unbelievably well. For people who think DT's music is a needlessly complex exercise in showing off, I would show them this song and how even when constraining themselves to five minutes, they can still write a great song.

3. Prophets of War - I love this track, it's something really different, it's very Muse, I find it really uplifting and powerful, I still remember back when they were recording this and got a load of fans in to do the 'TIME FOR CHANGE' stuff, it gives it a real emotional edge for me to to think of how awesome it must be for all those people to have been commemorated forever in one of our favourite bands' songs.

2. In the Presence of Enemies Part 1 - one of my favourite DT epics, and easily one of my favourite DT album openers in their whole catalogue. From the minute I heard the first twenty seconds of this track I knew this album was gonna be killer. I love everything about this song, I can't even begin to go into it because nothing short of a second by second detailed analysis would do it justice whenever I listen to this song I'm consumed with shivers, I genuinely don't get why it's not more well regarded within their body of music but each to their own.

1. In the Presence of Enemies Part 2 - Part 2 I love even more than Part 1 purely for the section from about 6 minutes onward, it's freakin' genius, there is so much tension, so much driving force behind the music, the guitar work between the vocal parts falling away to chugging above these awesome cheesy metal lyrics about cups overflowing with blood... I cannot listen to this track and not get a lump in my throat. From the second that midsection begins I'm working up to the culmination right before the instrumental section which blows my mind. This to me is DT very close to being at their finest. DT have always been my favourite band for how intensely they make me feel and this is one of those parts of their songs that drives me closer to how I imagine people feel when they say they had a spiritual experience than pretty much anything else I've ever experienced. It's perfect.

All in all the whole album ranks pretty highly in my overall DT album ranking, I know loads of people were disappointed but it's a great collection of enjoyable tracks, most of it nothing too special overall but ITPOE pushes it up there and makes it indispensable for me.

[Dublagent66]

Ok, rankings are finally in.  Explanations are short and to the point.


7.  Prophets of War – It's just a bad song.  No other way to describe it.


6.  Repentance – Don't care for it that much, except the JP solo has some redeeming qualities.

5.  The Dark Eternal Night – It's a fun song and JP shreds faster than the speed of light.  Crazy!
4.  Constant Motion – Another really fun song.  Great riffs and overall composition, but the chorus is slightly lacking.  Still good.
3.  Forsaken – Another great riff and JP solo.  The chorus is pretty cool too.
2.  In The Presence of Enemies – Overall great epic, although part 2 doesn't do a lot for me in comparison to part 1.  It could've been presented better as one track.

1.  The Ministry of Lost Souls – Yes, this is the best song on the album.  No, the instrumental section is not out of place or unnecessary and the outro is nothing short of legendary.  This song would've been an excellent closer.



-AAgent66

[lucky7]

1. The Dark Eternal Night
2. Constant Motion
3. In the Presence of Enemies
4. Forsaken
5. Prophets of War
6. Ministry of Lost Souls
7. Repentance

Ranking subject to change often. I  this album! 

[Cable]

1.  The Ministry of Lost Souls – Yes, this is the best song on the album.  No, the instrumental section is not out of place or unnecessary and the outro is nothing short of legendary.  This song would've been an excellent closer.



-AAgent66

While I don't agree about the song ranking, I can agree about the instrumental section plus it as a closer. As I combined those two completely different songs together, and it opens the album, TMOLS is of course ending the album. JPs solo on the theme or whatever is epic, and works perfectly to gently close the album.