Why do people say MM is a machine?

[erwinrafael]

That's a part of it as well. It's hard to be the new guy in a band, especially if you are replacing a member whose contributions are so substantial to the distinct sound of the band. I think this is like Sammy Hagar replacing David Lee Roth, Richie Kotzen replacing Paul Gilbert in Mr. Big, Robin Finck, Buckethead and Ron Thal replacing Slash on Guns N Roses (LOL), or Vinnie Vincent and Bruce Kulick replacing Ace Frehley replacing Kiss (Oh my, I mentioned Kiss. LOL). None of them had a happy ending, and we can only hope that MM would share the same fate as JR in becoming an integral part of the band despite coming late into the game.

I would also like to edit my comment about the Pornoy-isms. I made a playlist last night of Metropolis, ACOS, ToT, and Peruvian Skies and I felt that I missed something. I added The Glass Prison and I think my inventory of Portnoy-isms is finally complete.  I also would like to share my view that Awake is the most unique drumming that MP did in that it did not sound like anything he did before, and it is also not something that MP really came back to (which is why no Awake song is in the Portnoy-isms list). I always loved MP's work in Awake, it literally screams "POWER!" and there is a certain rawness to it that is very appealing. Like he did not have to show off how great a drummer he is, so he did not have to do numerous fills but was instead very confident that his drumming sounded great (and it did!).

[took_the_time11]

Personally, I prefer Portnoy's style, Not to discredit Mangini's playing. I love Mangini's attitude. Watching The guys call him and welcome him into Dream Theater brought a tear to my eye.

[erwinrafael]

Here's Mike doing Breaking All Illusions in a substantially reduced kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88z-SnExs8

Nothing at all memorable in the drumming in that song? I would be hard-pressed to believe that anybody would listen to that and not even remember any of the drumming in that song.

I really like the reduced kit which dramatically increases his visibility to the camera. It lets a non drummer, like me, enjoy the performance more.

Yeah. He used a small kit when he was still in Extreme, and it's amazing. Here's a clip of him doing Cupid's Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7nGtoYckP4. I love how we can see his left leg there and how he shifts to it for bass drum playing when he plays left-handed.

Still, his huge kit is amazing because he utilizes all parts of it. In the clip I shared of him playing Lost Not Forgotten, he used the whole kit and you can hear why.

[rumborak]

I watched that video, halfway through thinking "wow, a surprisingly subdued drumming for MM. Just the occasional delayed snare, nice." Then I realized Cupid's Dead is on 3 Sides, which means Paul Geary wrote the drum part.

[Calvin6s]

At least erwinrafael is making an effort to share what he actually likes about Mangini.  Most just say "I hear it.  Why can't you?"  And my thought on that is they don't hear it, but are just repeating the hype in fear that they might out themselves as not being as musically sharp as they pretend.

I'd really like to see a more detailed write up with text transcriptions and explanations on how it is directly working within the song.

[hefdaddy42]

As a drummer, I am much more influenced by Portnoy.  But that's because a lot of what MM does is over my head.

[rumborak]

I know it will never happen, but MM should really do some drum videos of him playing ADTOE and DT12 tracks. You know, MP-style.

"A Drumatic Turn of Events"
"Drum Theater"

See, we already have the DVD names.

[Calvin6s]

The dude was a great teacher, so he should definitely do a drum video with DT related content.  I was thinking more like Portnoy's first one, Progressive Drum Concepts (I think is what it was called).

[Kotowboy]

I watched that video, halfway through thinking "wow, a surprisingly subdued drumming for MM. Just the occasional delayed snare, nice." Then I realized Cupid's Dead is on 3 Sides, which means Paul Geary wrote the drum part.

Paul Geary taught at ACM in Guildford where I did my music degree.

[Kotowboy]

Probably a different Paul Geary ...

[bosk1]

You have a degree?

[Kotowboy]

No.

[Kotowboy]

I think it's blatantly obvious i'm not a good enough musician to get a degree.

[bosk1]

  I've never heard your music, so I can't comment.  It is not a slam on your musical talent.  I just didn't realize that you were old enough to have a degree.  I thought you were in high school or early college.

[King Postwhore]

I think it's blatantly obvious i'm not a good enough musician to get a degree.

*bitch slap*

Stop it.  I dig your music.

[Zydar]

I have six degrees of inner awesomeness, but that doesn't count.

[King Postwhore]

I have six degrees of inner awesomeness, but that doesn't count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

[Calvin6s]

I have six degrees of inner awesomeness, but that doesn't count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

I wasn't a big Stuart Smalley fan, but his bit with Michael Jordan was hilarious.  My favorite Franken SNL thing was when he was covering political conferences on a bobsled with the radar dish on his helmet.  I loved when he turned his head and the TV snow/static started to overtake his broadcast.
video

[King Postwhore]

I never liked the skit, but Zy's post made me think of it.

[rumborak]

Probably a different Paul Geary ...

Very likely. I love (Extreme) Paul Geary's drumming, but he's nowhere near teaching level

Unless the classes he gave were about the business side of music. Because that's what Paul does these days.

[TAC]

I never liked the skit, but Zy's post made me think of it.

It was a great skit!

[King Postwhore]

Probably a different Paul Geary ...

Very likely. I love (Extreme) Paul Geary's drumming, but he's nowhere near teaching level

Unless the classes he gave were about the business side of music. Because that's what Paul does these days.

A real good pocket guy.

I never liked the skit, but Zy's post made me think of it.

It was a great skit!

And you mock me?   I've always hated it.

[TAC]

And you know a good pocket guy when you see one!


Now THAT'S mocking you!!!!!!

[King Postwhore]

I am married.

[TAC]

I am married.

[Zydar]

I have six degrees of inner awesomeness, but that doesn't count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

[Kotowboy]

  I've never heard your music, so I can't comment.  It is not a slam on your musical talent.  I just didn't realize that you were old enough to have a degree.  I thought you were in high school or early college.

Nah I'm 36

[BlackInk]

  I've never heard your music, so I can't comment.  It is not a slam on your musical talent.  I just didn't realize that you were old enough to have a degree.  I thought you were in high school or early college.

Nah I'm 36

Seriously? I really wouldn't have guessed.

[Kotowboy]

4 Da Cereal, yo 

i've just never done the smoking and alcohol thing so that might help.

[erwinrafael]

I watched that video, halfway through thinking "wow, a surprisingly subdued drumming for MM. Just the occasional delayed snare, nice." Then I realized Cupid's Dead is on 3 Sides, which means Paul Geary wrote the drum part.

Cupid's Dead is on Pornograffiti, actually.

I just disappeared for one night. What happened to this thread?!

[rumborak]

You'd think you would at least double-check when disagreeing. Cupid's Dead is on 3 Sides. Look it up.

[erwinrafael]

Oh, my bad.  I was associating the more funky Extreme songs to Pornograffiti, I forgot that this is on the Yours side of III Sides. 

[erwinrafael]

Since we are sort of discussing Extreme, I just want to share my favorite drum work from MM in his very short stint with the band.

Leave Me Alone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76BUI0BJNIk

I loved the minimalist approach to the drums, when I first heard it, I wanted to mimic it immediately.

It was only later on that I found the "fun" fact about the drums and bass in the song. From MM's website, referring to the Extreme website.

"Pat & Mike 'winged' the verse hits. The patterns on Leave Me Alone were formed during 1st 2 runs in the 94 tour rehearsals. How many hits to hit were determined by one of us holding up 1,2,3 or 4 fingers in the air right before the hits."



MM's drumming on Hip Today is already showcasing some of his drumming orchestration, using different limbs to highlight different instruments:

https://www.mikemangini.com/Audio/solos/HipSolo.mp3

No Respect, on the other hand, has the one-handed drum fills while the other hand is keeping the beat going in the hi-hat:

https://www.mikemangini.com/Audio/grooves/NoRespect.mp3

Hopefully, MM would indeed do similar breakdowns in Dream Theater songs so that more people would appreciate what's happening with the drums. Listening to the breakdowns in the older songs actually helped me "hear" a lot of the intricacies of MM's playing in the DT songs.

[Mosh]

I love Mangini's work with Extreme and Nuno. I love how on his three tunes from Punchline he was able to hold down such a tight groove that was also pretty complex. A total opposite to Paul Geary. My go to example is the 7/4 in Hip Today. In fact it was that sort of thing that got me into more technical music a la Dream Theater. So needless to say, I've been a bit disappointed that Mangini hasn't brought that sort of thing to DT.

[erwinrafael]

I think it's more of a function of the overall music as opposed to MM "not bringing" the "groove"? Nuno and Pat Badger's guitar and bass playing,  and songwriting, really has funk elements in them. I find the approach of MM in drumming Hip Today and the Dt songs to be quite similar, so if what you are looking for is him playing a tight beat while letting his other limbs highlight what the others are doing, you can actually hear that in the Lost Not Forgotten instrumental, for example. There are lots of examples also in Illumination Theory and the other songs. If the song would lend itself to funk, then you would hear more funk elements in MM's playing. It's like him really channeling Rush when he did the Rush covers in Subdivisions. He's a chameleon in that way.

Maybe they'll come up with something more "groovy" in the next album. I remember that he once posted this "I'm also working on electronic kit sounding simple, 4/4 grooves using some over the bar ride patterns just to give it some habanero spice. It is stuff that kids can feel, so it sort of pleases all."