DT12 is...?

[Skeever]

My vote would be "average".

[CharlesPL]

Same here.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Above average for me. It doesn't reach the upper echelon of the greatest of the greats, but it doesn't need to.

[erwinrafael]

I voted above average as it is my second favorite DT album behind Awake.

[Nearmyth]

I don't even know what's considered average or above average or bad for DT. But simply put, the album is better than the worst but worse than the best, so I put average.

[Anguyen92]

It's pretty good.  I put it above average.  Would I say it's the best ever?  Probably not, but it is my favorite from them.

[425]

I don't even know what's considered average or above average or bad for DT. But simply put, the album is better than the worst but worse than the best, so I put average.

I think you would just determine that by how you rank it in the discography... Something like:

The Best = #1
Above Average = #2-5
Average = #6-7
Below Average = #8-11
The Worst = #12

I would say, at this point, above average. Which really surprises me. I didn't know from the start what to make of this album... I'm a definite Portnoy fan on the production, drumming and vocal fronts. But I must admit that the two non-Portnoy albums are certainly above average. Maybe there are ways in which the band's songwriting improves without MP's presence. Hate to say it, because I love the guy, but ADTOE and DT12 are really good.

It took me a long time to get there. Perhaps it was because it was the first DT album whose release I awaited, and it didn't exactly meet my expectations at first, particularly with regard to sound quality. Over time, though, it grew on me, and when I returned to it a few weeks ago after having not listened to it for probably well over six months, it really jumped in my rankings. It's a solid disc all the way through, and it probably helps that it was the soundtrack to the beginning of one of the best years so far of my life. So, yeah, above average, at least at this time.

[Prog Snob]

It took a few listens before it started to really grow on me.  With songs like Illumination Theory and Surrender to Reason, it has become something I listen to much more these days.  I definitely rank it above average.  Just to put it in perspective with other releases. 

The Best DT Album -  Images and Words
Above Average - A Dramatic Turn of Events
Average - Black Clouds and Silver Linings
Below Average - Train of Thought
The Worst DT Album - I really can't think of any to put here.  Even WDADU has some great songs.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

[erwinrafael]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

[Randaran]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

This. It comes at around #9 or 10 for me, but it is still a good ablum.

[rumborak]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

Ugh. No offense to you personally, but I hate these kinds of responses. It's so conceited. All it really says is "the worst music I like is still better than the best music you can show me."

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah. I don't hate DT12 or anything, but there are lots of bands with albums that are way better.

[Kotowboy]

I thought it was Top 3 when I first got it.


...but now I think it's mid tier.


Nowhere near terrible but nowhere near perfect either.


A good. latter-period DT.




EDIT : For a band's twelfth studio album - it's pretty damn good come to think of it.  Metallica ran completely out of ideas after their 6th album.

[rumborak]

Yeah. I don't hate DT12 or anything, but there are lots of bands with albums that are way better.

In the grand scheme of music I listen to, DT12 probably isn't in the top 100. No offense to the band, they were for a very long time my absolute, indisputable number 1, but their late efforts are at best called "valiant attempts".

[425]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

Ugh. No offense to you personally, but I hate these kinds of responses. It's so conceited. All it really says is "the worst music I like is still better than the best music you can show me."

I agree. Sure, thinking that "okay, this one band is always better than most other bands" makes sense in your head just after you first find that one band and your tastes are pretty narrow. But I don't see how you can think this about any band if you have a sizable and diverse music library.

Heck, even just in the prog rock genre, just in the year 2013, at least two artists put out albums that rival or, in my opinion, exceed DT12: Steven Wilson with The Raven That Refused to Sing and Haken with The Mountain. I bet we can find several other albums just from that year in other genres that are near that quality level.

EDIT: I could not even begin to think of what my hypothetical top 100 would look like. I think DT12 would probably make that for me, but probably not my top 50. I don't really know though, that's just intuition.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Yeah. I don't hate DT12 or anything, but there are lots of bands with albums that are way better.

In the grand scheme of music I listen to, DT12 probably isn't in the top 100. No offense to the band, they were for a very long time my absolute, indisputable number 1, but their late efforts are at best called "valiant attempts".

Depends on how many albums you've listened to, really. DT12 wouldn't make my top 100 either, but that's not a knock to it at all. There's just so much damn music out there.

And for their twelfth album, DT12 is pretty damn impressive. By this point, most bands would teeter off quite a bit.

[KevShmev]

I put below average but that's only by DT standards. For most bands this would be the best they could do.

Ugh. No offense to you personally, but I hate these kinds of responses. It's so conceited. All it really says is "the worst music I like is still better than the best music you can show me."

I disagree. I don't think it's unreasonable for a DT fan to think that an average DT album (meaning their 6th or 7th best album) is still an above average album.

On a 5-pt scale, 2.5 is average, so anything above that is above average, and I would definitely give DT12 at least 3 stars; probably 3.5.

And for their twelfth album, DT12 is pretty damn impressive. By this point, most bands would teeter off quite a bit.

Agreed.   I can't imagine there being a lot of bands whose 12th studio album is as good or better than Dream Theater's.  Hell, a lot of bands don't even make it to a 12th studio album!

[erwinrafael]

And not just a 12th studio album. It's a 12th studio album done in a regular pace of every couple of years. I haven't seen anybody reach that number of albums and still churn out good material on a regular schedule.

[425]

Sometimes I take how prolific DT is for granted given that I spend a lot of time in a prog rock headspace dominated by Steven Wilsons and Neal Morses. But y'all are right. Twelve albums, on a regular 2-3 year schedule, with fairly consistent quality (I think we can generally agree that there have been a few dips, but not catastrophic ones) is actually quite impressive!

EDIT:

Ugh. No offense to you personally, but I hate these kinds of responses. It's so conceited. All it really says is "the worst music I like is still better than the best music you can show me."

I disagree. I don't think it's unreasonable for a DT fan to think that an average DT album (meaning their 6th or 7th best album) is still an above average album.

On a 5-pt scale, 2.5 is average, so anything above that is above average, and I would definitely give DT12 at least 3 stars; probably 3.5.

Kev, I understand where you're coming from, but I have to restate my agreement with rumborak. There's a difference between thinking that most or even all of DT's albums are above average and saying something like "For most bands this [below DT average] would be the best they could do." I think a statement like that is just too sweeping and kind of implies that there's a top tier of a select few bands, DT among them, that are capable of producing most of the best material, and then other bands are barely able to reach the mid-low levels of those bands' work, and that's it. I'm sure that's not what TheCountOfNYC meant, but that implicit idea is what somewhat irks me, and I imagine rumbo as well, about that sentence.

[Prog Snob]

Well how does DT12 compare with the 12th album of other bands such as Yes, Rush, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, etc?

[Prog Snob]

Rush - Hold Your Fire
Yes - Big Generator
Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
King Crimson - The ConstruKction of Light

[Mosh]

Miles ahead of all of those imo.

[BlobVanDam]

Below average. If not for WDADU, I *might* have voted for the last option.

[?]

Voted "below average for DT", as it's #9 in my album ranking. I don't hate it by any means, but I find it kind of underwhelming and unremarkable. I may listen to The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or The Looking Glass and think "this is a pretty good song", but nothing on the album makes me go "wow!".

Rush - Hold Your Fire
Yes - Big Generator
Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
King Crimson - The ConstruKction of Light

I don't listen to Yes or Crimson, but I'd take Hold Your Fire over DT12 any day. Tai Shan > Enigma Machine Not sure about The Final Cut though; haven't given that album too many listens.

[bl5150]

Above average - top 4 for me.

[Sycsa]

I think it's easily their best release since SDOIT (and I like 'em all) and it's the only DT album - besides SFAM - that I usually listen to in its entirety, without skipping any songs. A stellar effort, which has aged very well for me (a lot better than ADTOE) and I still listen to it quite often.

[Outcrier]

Below average, between 9-10 in my ranking.

[BlackInk]

Below average for me too. I would have loved to vote 'worst', but I still like WDaDU less.

[hefdaddy42]

Rush - Hold Your Fire
Yes - Big Generator
Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
King Crimson - The ConstruKction of Light

I think DT12 compares favorably with those, and better than at least three of them IMO (Hold Your Fire, Big Generator, and The Final Cut).

I rank it above average.

[Prog Snob]

Rush - Hold Your Fire
Yes - Big Generator
Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
King Crimson - The ConstruKction of Light

I think DT12 compares favorably with those, and better than at least three of them IMO (Hold Your Fire, Big Generator, and The Final Cut).

I rank it above average.

I am going to say that all of those releases are below average for each band, especially The Final Cut which I would probably consider the worst release of Pink Floyd.  Like a couple of people mentioned above, that's not too bad to be 12 albums into your career and release something (DT12) that could be considered above average by a good chunk of your fans. 

[hefdaddy42]

Yes, I certainly agree with all of that.

[KevShmev]

Kev, I understand where you're coming from, but I have to restate my agreement with rumborak. There's a difference between thinking that most or even all of DT's albums are above average and saying something like "For most bands this [below DT average] would be the best they could do." I think a statement like that is just too sweeping and kind of implies that there's a top tier of a select few bands, DT among them, that are capable of producing most of the best material, and then other bands are barely able to reach the mid-low levels of those bands' work, and that's it. I'm sure that's not what TheCountOfNYC meant, but that implicit idea is what somewhat irks me, and I imagine rumbo as well, about that sentence.

I understand. I know some take the "even DT's worst stuff is better than most band's best stuff" approach, which I think is totally silly, but that is not what I am saying.  I am merely saying that DT is good enough to where their 6th and 7th best albums are still better than average records in general.

Rush - Hold Your Fire
Yes - Big Generator
Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
King Crimson - The ConstruKction of Light

DT12 is about as good or better than all of those (I slightly prefer Hold Your Fire to it, and think The Final Cut blows).

But to go back to what I said earlier about many bands not even getting to 12 studio albums, consider that legendary bands like Led Zeppelin and Metallica never made it to 12.  The Police are considered an all-time great by many, and they have five albums. 

[JediKnight1969]

Below average for me too. I would have loved to vote 'worst', but I still like WDaDU less.

This.

[Skeever]

Looks like the album is somewhere in the middle, leaning toward "better than most DT" but not decisively so. About what I'd expect. Not as good as their best albums, but still way better than some of the recent ones.