Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[King Postwhore]

Keep it clean bosk1 for the kids now.

[KevShmev]

For example, I have a lot of song chunks, a lot of demos, a lot of work that I've done, and I thought "Wow, I would love these guys to take some of my ideas, no matter what, and just do something with it." But what I have learned is that the band really kind of does things together, and if I was to offer something, it would have to be extraordinary and be something that already fits the mold.

That is worrisome.

It's kind of always been like that.  The story I always remember is Portnoy commenting that the LTE song Liquid Dreams is something DT could never do, and I wondered, "Why not? It is your band; you can do whatever you want with it!"

And, no, I do not think DT should radically change their sound or anything, but band members being hesitant to bring in ideas because they know ahead of time that they will be rejected is very unfortunate.  That has never happened with a band like Rush, being that Geddy Lee has always said, "If one member wanted to try something different, the other two are always like, 'okay, let's give it a try.'"

[Darkstarshades]

This is something I've agreed on always.
DT members are very technically advanced, and they know their fellow musicians do as well, so, in their minds it's like "There is an universal sound that DT has to play, and that's the sound where we can all agree on and no argues on that".

That didn't happen when MP was in the group, simply because MP was waaay more vocal and often forced his ideas into the group, or worked them around with the other members. Now, with MM, everyone is like "Ok, so we recorded this at the soundcheck... Let's work it... Or scrap it"
Or Petrucci, who apparently brought a lot of riffs and stuff from home but they didn't really end up using any of his ideas.
And I'm convinced that Beneath the Surface was added simply because it fit in the few remaining minutes of the CD.

[bosk1]

That didn't happen when MP was in the group, simply because MP was waaay more vocal and often forced his ideas into the group, or worked them around with the other members.

Not sure where you got that from, but you are misinformed.  That is not how the band functioned, ever.

[Darkstarshades]

The point being, ALL words are subjective to a degree.  What does "the mold" mean?   DT is not a band to have a song like "Five Percent For Nothing" on it.  Or a song with banjos.  Or kazoos.   Not knowing what it is that MM is bringing in, or the context for how it is presented to the group, I think it is foolhardy and presumptuous to conclude that DT is neglecting or not taking full advantage of it's new star drummer.

This.
Even when they said MM wasn't at the creative process from the start of ADTOE, they never said he had nothing to do.
They programmed the drum parts with a computer but there is no way to tell how much was added and modified and done by Mangini himself unless you were there. The other members constantly praise him for his work, so, where is the point in them not letting his ideas in?

[Skeever]

That didn't happen when MP was in the group, simply because MP was waaay more vocal and often forced his ideas into the group, or worked them around with the other members.

Not sure where you got that from, but you are misinformed.  That is not how the band functioned, ever.

I'm pretty sure MP would be the first person to own up to that kind of behavior.

[bosk1]

He has never said he "forced" his ideas onto anyone, and others in the band that I have spoken to have denied it (pretty vigorously at that).  And there is not really any evidence that he did.  Most of the music ideas have always come from JP.

[rumborak]

While that is true in terms of the majority of songs, both KM and DM contributed their own ideas and songs. I know this is eons ago at this point, but it shows that the dynamics must have been different back in the day.

[Skeever]

I never felt like most musical ideas came from JP until recently.

[bosk1]

Okay, but however you felt does not change the facts.

[Skeever]

I'm pretty sure that whoever writes lyrics also writes vocal melodies for a particular song, so it's safe to say JP contributes more musical ideas than ever, as the amount of JP lyrics has just continued to increase over the years.

I have a lot of other reasons for thinking that Myung used to bring more to the table, though. Same goes for Portnoy bringing more to the table musically than Mangini. I've seen how Portnoy works on various documentaries like the one for the newest Transatlantic album, and the fact that he plays drums does not stop him from verbally suggesting or even singing parts he'd like to hear the band try and produce. I haven't seen any evidence that Mangini takes on a similar role in DT.

So the dynamic has definitely shifted from one where vocal melodies are more split and where the drummer gives a lot of musical input, to one where JP writes most of the vocal melodies and the drummer just plays drums.

[cramx3]

I dont think anyone denies that MP played a larger role in the DT writing process than MM does now and that dynamics were changed when MP left. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Here's where I stand on this whole "Member X doesn't contribute ideas" thing:

Honestly, that just seems to be how it works in most bands. You have one or two primary songwriters, and everyone else either chimes in occasionally or just records what they're told do. I don't think that's worrisome at all. It's not like JM and MM can't contribute ideas, they just don't as much.

Also, while I 100% agree that it would be cool if DT experimented a little more, it's pretty common for bands to want to write their music a certain way or place certain limits around themselves. Even Steven Wilson has said numerous times that in Porcupine Tree, he didn't want to bring music to the table that was too far out there.

[ariich]

I  pretty much agree with TOX, and think he doing a very disappointing job of being unseasoned considering how reasonable he is all the bloody time.

[bosk1]

Here, let me help. 

[rumborak]

Now I got "Aahhh, push it!" stuck in my head.

[wasteland]

– What about Dream Theater's future?

– We have been working hard on a new album, which will be released early next year. The good thing with this band is that we always manage to change the direction a bit. I think the Dream Theater fans will find what we have been working on interesting.

Nothing new, but still quite interesting. Again there are hints that the next album might be slightly different from the usual standard.

[rumborak]

I can't remember a single album in history, DT and non-DT, where I have not seen that kind of statement

[Kotowboy]

" Our new album will be the heaviest shit we've ever done "


* release softest album they've ever done *



- All Bands.

[BlobVanDam]

I can't remember a single album in history, DT and non-DT, where I have not seen that kind of statement

Yup. A comment like that is so general and vague, that it could mean something very different, or it could mean absolutely nothing at all. DT haven't really made any statements yet about the new album that don't fit under the same category.

[BelichickFan]

I'm not expecting the album to be any more different than other album to album changes over the years.  Clearly the band seems to think so, though.  Going back in this thread somewhere, there was someone who talked to Jordan and (paraphrased) Jordan said it would be somewhat different, was asked if he meant a concept album and responded that they've already done that so it wouldn't be different.  So it seems clear that the band, or Jordan anyway, thinks this is a little different than anything they've done before.

[Kotowboy]

So no double album either then.

An album as one massive suite ? I guess they've kinda done that before too.

[BelichickFan]

So no double album either then.

An album as one massive suite ? I guess they've kinda done that before too.

I wish I could find the quote but this thread is too long.  Regardless, I paraphrased it about right.  Which would eliminate a double album.  But not a triple album 

Whether the difference is something obvious (like length, concept, # tracks) or more stuff that only a musician would notice, who knows but, again, clearly they think it's something different.  Something like Fragile would be cool where each player gets his own space on a track; but I've been listening to a lot of Yes since Squire's death.  Who knows, I can't wait to find out more.

[mimipetrucci]

excited about this

[Darkstarshades]

I said, it's going to be pop oriented.

A song will feature Ludacris on vocals with LaBrie while they rap at weird time changes.

[zecawolf]

I said, it's going to be pop oriented.

A song will feature Ludacris on vocals with LaBrie while they rap at weird time changes.

call me radical. if that was the case, I wouldn't bother giving it one listen. Gladly, I highly doubt it will ever come close to happening

[Ben_Jamin]

They're finally going to do their world album.

[BlobVanDam]

They're finally going to do their world album.

I'd like them to explore that, although I get the feeling if it's something that different, it will be a completely new idea rather than a known old one.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I think their world album thing was a one time idea that none of them probably remember at this point. They're probably in a 'let's make the best DT album we could ever do... heavy, melodic and progressive in every aspect!' state of mind like they've been for the past 3 albums or something like that. Shame.

They could really get inspired by artists like Peter Gabriel and their marvellous explorations of world music and create something really authentic. Probably not gonna happen, though.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I can't remember a single album in history, DT and non-DT, where I have not seen that kind of statement

And also "I feel like it's our best album so far. We've managed to do something fresh and original, while still maintaining our core sound and identity. It's a heavy album with loud guitars, but also very prog. We really felt a sense of unity as a band while recording the album"

[The Curious Orange]

Thing is, as far as I'm concerned, DT never used to have a "signature sound".  The first DT album I heard was I&W, back in 1992. The first song on that album is "Pull Me Under", the second is "Another Day". I can't think of another band that has put two completely different songs back to back on an album like that, a heavy, thrashy metalfest followed by a soft, almost jazz-fusion ballard. With a saxophone. And if that wasn't weird enough, the third song is "Take The Time", which sounds like Rush, Yes and the Red Hot Chilli Peppers playing different songs in different keys and tempos at the same time.

Awake sounded nothing like I&W, and FII sounded nothing like either of those. The simple fact is, I listened to every new DT album with a sense of wonder - could music really be like this?

For my money, DT can/could do anything they want. World music? A classical symphony? A bluegrass album? Bring it on, I'm sure it would still have the innovation, musicality and attitude that make it DT.

But they do seem to have stopped trying. For me, Systematic Chaos was the first album that, while it has some moments of brilliance, doesn't really bring anything new to the party (although both TOT and 8VM lacked something). I've loved every album since, but they just don't compare IMO. The changes to their live shows haven't helped either.

I strongly believe there are two sorts of DT fan - those of us of a certain age who've followed this band for 20 years and really want to see a return to the glory days when being a DT fan really made you feel part of something special, and younger metal-head kidz, who really only want something dumb and more and more metal. DT are more frightened of losing the kidz than they are of losing the long-time fans.

This is evidenced in two ways, firstly the song-writing itself, where even the quiet songs have to have metal bits (everytime I hear the intro to The Bigger Picture I wish it started with the piano part - the only reason I can see for that loud intro is that they don't want the metal kidz to think "OMG a ballard" and switch off. That intro just sceams "don't worry kidz, it'll get loud again in a minute".

And secondly, audio quality. For a few albums now, DT seem to have embraced this "everything louder than everything else" approach to their albums. For those of us with quality top-end hi-fis, their recent albums are just a wall of noise. I would love to see DT's next album be a proper audiophile release, but it ain't gonna happen.

So while DT never used to have a signature sound, I guess they do now. And that is very restricting for a band that a great many fans would follow anywhere. So I reckon the next DT album is going to sound exactly like the last few. Like the man said - Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss. I'm sure the metal-head kidz will love it.

[GandL]

Hopefully not, but I agree with you and fear the same.

[cramx3]

I strongly believe there are two sorts of DT fan - those of us of a certain age who've followed this band for 20 years and really want to see a return to the glory days when being a DT fan really made you feel part of something special, and younger metal-head kidz, who really only want something dumb and more and more metal. DT are more frightened of losing the kidz than they are of losing the long-time fans.

This is evidenced in two ways, firstly the song-writing itself, where even the quiet songs have to have metal bits (everytime I hear the intro to The Bigger Picture I wish it started with the piano part - the only reason I can see for that loud intro is that they don't want the metal kidz to think "OMG a ballard" and switch off. That intro just sceams "don't worry kidz, it'll get loud again in a minute".

Just because some of us enjoy metal, does not make the music "dumb".  This whole notion of kidz and metal and not being able to enjoy a ballad is garbage.  I would imagine there are many fans who do fall into this category, who only like the heavy songs, but I think thats a smaller subset of the fan base and not representative of the "metal fan" in general.

[jmasterx]

The new album will be 13 songs @ 3.5 minutes each:

The time sinuratures will be:
4/4
2/4
3/4
4/4
5/4
6/4
7/4
4/4
9/8
10/4
11/4
12/8
13/4

They will expand on the idea of short songs from DT 12 and make an entire album of short songs! Never been done!

Also, this album will feature microtonal riffs!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

A couple of thoughts:

But they do seem to have stopped trying. For me, Systematic Chaos was the first album that, while it has some moments of brilliance, doesn't really bring anything new to the party (although both TOT and 8VM lacked something). I've loved every album since, but they just don't compare IMO. The changes to their live shows haven't helped either.

Honestly, I don't think the band has stopped trying so much as they're simply at a point in their career where they just want to play the music they love. There are artists who will always want to push the boundaries of what they've done before, but most bands get to a point where they just wanna do what they do.

I strongly believe there are two sorts of DT fan - those of us of a certain age who've followed this band for 20 years and really want to see a return to the glory days when being a DT fan really made you feel part of something special, and younger metal-head kidz, who really only want something dumb and more and more metal. DT are more frightened of losing the kidz than they are of losing the long-time fans.

I understand there's probably some intentional hyperbole here, and I certainly agree there's a portion of every metal fan base that's a little meat-headed, but I don't fit into these categories. I got into DT when I was 14, which was ten years ago now. I love most of their material, am less keen on some of it, but overall still feel like I'm part of a really cool club and think that the band is in a good place right now.