Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[BlackInk]

They seem to all be fans of 'heavy' music, so that seems to be more or less guaranteed. I am a fan of that too, so I agree.  The heavy moments are often a highlight, whether I like the album overall or not.

[bluehaze1933]

They seem to all be fans of 'heavy' music, so that seems to be more or less guaranteed. I am a fan of that too, so I agree.  The heavy moments are often a highlight, whether I like the album overall or not.

Can you imagine them saying screw it and doing a Periphery-styled album??? THAT would be heavy!!!  ...and It would make my day to see all of the ballad lovers out there cringe with pain. I'm playing with ya'll 

[JayOctavarium]

I dont want an all heavy album. I do though like to be able to headbang once in a while.

[BlackInk]

Jay, 13 posts? What happened??

Can you imagine them saying screw it and doing a Periphery-styled album??? THAT would be heavy!!!  ...and It would make my day to see all of the ballad lovers out there cringe with pain. I'm playing with ya'll 

While I do laugh that idea off as a joke, I'll say it again: I would like to see DT some of the "djent" rhythms. Not the sound, nor the guitar tone, nor the 'shuggashugga' style, just some of that style of advanced polyrhythm which I love.

[JayOctavarium]

Jay, 13 posts? What happened??

Don't piss off Hefdaddy

[Rodni Demental]

While I get why they have to do it from a business standpoint, the fact that they are already announcing tour dates for this summer, without having any of the new album written yet, is not something I am a fan of.  What if they get in the studio and struggle to find their way?  Will they feel rushed to release whatever they come up with, because they know they have to have to finished by [insert date]? You can't exactly put creativity and inspiration on a time clock; it should come naturally.

Sounds like a lot to worry about.  I agree that it should come naturally, but honestly if this is what works for them then that is what comes naturally to them. I think the fact of the matter is that DT members obviously feel comfortable and confident enough that they can keep on track. They don't expect to encounter any issues while recording, and why should they? Sure it's good to be prepared for anything, but worrying about an imaginary scenario where something causes them to not finish on time is a helpful attitude in some circumstances, such as foresight to predict potential hurdles, but a hindering attitude to have if you actually just want to get on with it and make progress. I get what you mean how it could make you feel uneasy that they impose these sort of expectations on themselves, but if they're confident in their ability to stick to their schedules then that should be good enough for us.

I want demos.

Me too... I love hearing the early concepts for certain tracks, and hearing the differences between final versions and witnessing the evolution of a song. Thing is, I'm not entirely sure if they even have demos anymore. They might have earlier versions of the mix, but it sounds like a few of the takes they use are literally the first attempt in some cases. So in many cases it seems the 'demoing' process is practically integrated into their methods of composing in the studio, resulting in no demos, at least not in the way we'd expect.

Even though there are of course fans of every album, I feel like DT has disappointed the general fan base for the last four albums. I'm not speaking for myself here though, since I love both Systematic Chaos and A Dramatic Turn of Events. But I feel like the majority of comments of the past 6 years has been a bit negative. It seems like the fans are longing for the old DT, which will simply never return. Something I have accepted will never really return. And again, I really like both SC and ADToE, so not really speaking for myself here.

Maybe some older fans feel this way, the ones that put all their earlier work on a pedestal for varying reasons. But really, any complaints about the recent half of their career have been from fans that have certain expectations that were not met by the band in the way they'd prefer. I think the 'core' DT fanbase will be pretty accepting of most of what they come out with, and the persistent 'negative' responses are a natural side effect (and in contrast) to a generally well received album as far as the band is concerned. Despite the huge variation in opinions on the albums, I don't think there's any one album that we can collectively agree was an actual flop or failure for the band. They're still always charging forward seemingly still getting bigger and receiving more recognition. Even SC which gets a lot of flak for whatever reasons, still correlates with an expansion of the fanbase and generally high acclamation. Each album has still been a success in it's own right, and the fanbase is still growing.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

While I get why they have to do it from a business standpoint, the fact that they are already announcing tour dates for this summer, without having any of the new album written yet, is not something I am a fan of.  What if they get in the studio and struggle to find their way?  Will they feel rushed to release whatever they come up with, because they know they have to have to finished by [insert date]? You can't exactly put creativity and inspiration on a time clock; it should come naturally.

Sounds like a lot to worry about.  I agree that it should come naturally, but honestly if this is what works for them then that is what comes naturally to them. I think the fact of the matter is that DT members obviously feel comfortable and confident enough that they can keep on track. They don't expect to encounter any issues while recording, and why should they? Sure it's good to be prepared for anything, but worrying about an imaginary scenario where something causes them to not finish on time is a helpful attitude in some circumstances, such as foresight to predict potential hurdles, but a hindering attitude to have if you actually just want to get on with it and make progress. I get what you mean how it could make you feel uneasy that they impose these sort of expectations on themselves, but if they're confident in their ability to stick to their schedules then that should be good enough for us.

I agree with this. We know a few things about the task in front of DT:
1) They'll likely write an album between 65 (or at least 60, anyway) and 80 minutes.
2) They're masters of their instruments and can learn parts very quickly.
3) At least on the last album, they were always mic'd so basically anything they did could be used as a final take, so recording doesn't even necessarily have to be an extra step/extra time beyond writing (except vox, which I assume are laid down in blocks once everything else is in).

Now, we've seen how these guys can jam, the random improvs Jordan has done, etc. I find it hard to believe that in five months, they can't come up with 60-80 minutes of great musical ideas and get them tracked (the mixing/mastering don't happen while they're in studio, right? That's later?). I know that's oversimplifying a bit, but they've done this...seven? times already, and while they maybe aren't 7-for-7 on satisfying some of us (myself included), they're 7-for-7 in satisfying themselves.

We've also seen Petrucci-led DT show a willingness to push back releases of things (the drummer doc and LALP) rather than rushing something out the door, so I imagine that if there were significant issues in the allotted time, they'd make allowances. But still, I find it hard to imagine that these guys could spend five months on an album and be dry of good ideas, when ToT took three weeks; didn't Flying Colors do their first one in just a few days? These things happen. Maybe it has some negative side effects, but there shouldn't be any more concern this cycle than any other.

Even though there are of course fans of every album, I feel like DT has disappointed the general fan base for the last four albums. I'm not speaking for myself here though, since I love both Systematic Chaos and A Dramatic Turn of Events. But I feel like the majority of comments of the past 6 years has been a bit negative. It seems like the fans are longing for the old DT, which will simply never return. Something I have accepted will never really return. And again, I really like both SC and ADToE, so not really speaking for myself here.

Maybe some older fans feel this way, the ones that put all their earlier work on a pedestal for varying reasons. But really, any complaints about the recent half of their career have been from fans that have certain expectations that were not met by the band in the way they'd prefer. I think the 'core' DT fanbase will be pretty accepting of most of what they come out with, and the persistent 'negative' responses are a natural side effect (and in contrast) to a generally well received album as far as the band is concerned. Despite the huge variation in opinions on the albums, I don't think there's any one album that we can collectively agree was an actual flop or failure for the band. They're still always charging forward seemingly still getting bigger and receiving more recognition. Even SC which gets a lot of flak for whatever reasons, still correlates with an expansion of the fanbase and generally high acclamation. Each album has still been a success in it's own right, and the fanbase is still growing.

Also great points here. I wonder how much of an effect the time someone becomes a DT fan has on their perception of the second half (say, post-ToT) portion of the discography. Obviously, here on DTF, many who followed the band in the '90s saw the second half of the discography as a consistent slide down, maybe bouncing back up with ADTOE a bit. I became a fan about a year before SC came out, and when it did come out, I played it to death. BCSL then got quite a bit of play, ADTOE much less, and it stayed about the same with DT. I feel like we process albums a bit differently when we first come across a band and drift through the back catalog (we see them as comprising the band's identity) vs. when they come out (when we see them as possibly just treading over the same ground, or deviating from the expected identity).

I can't speak for others, of course, but I'd guess that this is what causes the effects above. Those who have followed the band for a long time may perceive them either as getting complacent/stale or mired in a sound that's just a touch too far removed from their peak (which some may feel is I&W, some may say Awake, SFAM...even perhaps ToT). Critics, however, may note that they're still world-class musicians who still retain an ear for melody, and new fans process the discography holistically (noting the overall consistency/quality/musicianship, etc.) rather than focusing on the subtle evolution (or lack of evolution) at certain points. Not that that focus is bad or misplaced--these sorts of delvings are what make DTF great--but it does explain how the band could be very (rightfully) confident in their current direction despite a majority of the users on this forum wishing for various sorts of shakeups.

They seem to all be fans of 'heavy' music, so that seems to be more or less guaranteed.

JR isn't really, is he? Clearly the rest are (or at least I'd think JM is, right?), so it's guaranteed anyway.

I love all songs of the 12 step suite except The Shattered Fortress, because it in total had one original idea in 13 minutes.

Though I have the same issue with TSF, the main riff, both (extended) solos, and the final vocal section are all original ideas. (sorry for the nitpicks)

[The Stray Seed]

^ Excellent post, man!!! You've made some great points there!

[Kotowboy]

I dont want an all heavy album. I do though like to be able to headbang once in a while.

After DT12 I want an all ballad album. 

[Octavarious]

I dont want an all heavy album. I do though like to be able to headbang once in a while.

After DT12 I want an all ballad album. 

Title: Sweet Balladreams.
Cover:all pink with lots of red hearts.
Yes, why not?
"And now for something completely different..."
Ok...
Well, 1 ballad is just right. One.

[Madman Shepherd]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

I never said they should reinvent their sound. I just think they could add an album to their catalog that is a bit more of a prog album that is heavier on musicianship and less on pop hooks and ballads. They don't need to reinvent themselves to do that. That being said, YES, Genesis, Heart and Aerosmith to name a few managed to change their sound during the early 80's to great success. I didn't care for the changes but they did change and had a second life to their careers. I would venture to say that at least Heart and YES recanted those changes when the music industry became tour heavy again.

I'm not familiar with all of those bands but most of the ones you listed started making more mainstream songs aka less proggy in the case of Yes and Genesis.   Thats why they succeeded.  Same could be said for Megadeth, Testament, even Fates Warning.  So unless you are suggesting DT makes a more mainstream album, I don't see how shaking things up would guarantee bigger success.

[bluehaze1933]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

I never said they should reinvent their sound. I just think they could add an album to their catalog that is a bit more of a prog album that is heavier on musicianship and less on pop hooks and ballads. They don't need to reinvent themselves to do that. That being said, YES, Genesis, Heart and Aerosmith to name a few managed to change their sound during the early 80's to great success. I didn't care for the changes but they did change and had a second life to their careers. I would venture to say that at least Heart and YES recanted those changes when the music industry became tour heavy again.

I'm not familiar with all of those bands but most of the ones you listed started making more mainstream songs aka less proggy in the case of Yes and Genesis.   Thats why they succeeded.  Same could be said for Megadeth, Testament, even Fates Warning.  So unless you are suggesting DT makes a more mainstream album, I don't see how shaking things up would guarantee bigger success.

My point is not that DT change their sound, but that bands have changed their sound and succeeded. The 80's sucked for music and those that "sold out" to stay relevant have changed their tune (excuse the pun) as of late. My DESIRE is that they make a more proggy album not a less proggy one. They ARE a PROG-metal band after all, and this is why they became successful in the first place. They bucked the commercial market to be proggy when prog was all but dead. Do their fans really want them to be less proggy?  If I wanted that, I'd listen to Journey. There are more than enough bands out there for that kind of boring pop sound. I want DT to stay true to themselves and not give in to those that want less prog. Dream Theater have paved the way for many other prog metal bands such as Circus Maximus, Pagans Mind, the Von Hertzen brothers to name  a few. Other prog bands such as Beardfish and the Flower Kings have also carved out a prog following thanks to DT's bringing prog back from the dead. Long live prog rock!!!

[hefdaddy42]

Well, they aren't doing anything non-proggy now, so I'm not sure how they can do MORE proggy without being LESS accessible.

Their last album was focused on more concise songwriting, but it wasn't any less proggy.  But even if the shorter songs aren't your cup of tea, they've never done two albums in a row exactly the same anyway, so I would be surprised if that same focus stayed on the next album anyway.

[erwinrafael]

I think their decision to consciously make shorter songs in the recent album is not an indicator of future direction but is a rather an album specific concept. It is in keeping with the decision to self title the album, to be straight to the point. And then they couple it with an epic, which is a very typical represebtation of what Dream Theater is all about.

[ariich]

But even if the shorter songs aren't your cup of tea, they've never done two albums in a row exactly the same anyway, so I would be surprised if that same focus stayed on the next album anyway.

Yeah, it seems that bluehaze was simply suggesting a different direction to DT12, but I think that's a given.

[adamack]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

Here ya go...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbTyFzqZu0

Hahahahah! Hearing "Heyyyyy, sexy lady" over Wither is hysterical

[emtee]

Well are we going to lay odds on Metropolis II or what? 

[hefdaddy42]

Well are we going to lay odds on Metropolis II or what? 

That was in 1999.

[BlackInk]

Imagine that though, being a long time DT fan, and then discovering that you've somehow missed an album called 'Scenes From a Memory' or something. That'd be a pretty swell day.

[Kotowboy]

Well are we going to lay odds on Metropolis II or what? 

That was in 1999.

I can guarantee 100% that they will definitely do that album at some point in their career.

[gmillerdrake]

Imagine that though, being a long time DT fan, and then discovering that you've somehow missed an album called 'Scenes From a Memory' or something. That'd be a pretty swell day.

This happened to me. After FII I kind of lost track of them....got into the Heavier Music (Pantera, Machine Head...etc. etc.) and really didn't follow up with DT for a few years. In the summer of 2002 I was managing a Sports Bar and one of the cooks mentioned Dream Theater in converstation....and I said I used to love them and that it was too bad that they quit making music. He was like 'WTF you talking about?' and he told me about Scenes and 6 Degrees. I immediately ran out and bought them and had a great mind blowing few weeks just listening to those over and over and over......

[BlackInk]

Damn, that sounds awesome.

[JayOctavarium]

Imagine that though, being a long time DT fan, and then discovering that you've somehow missed an album called 'Scenes From a Memory' or something. That'd be a pretty swell day.

This happened to me. After FII I kind of lost track of them....got into the Heavier Music (Pantera, Machine Head...etc. etc.) and really didn't follow up with DT for a few years. In the summer of 2002 I was managing a Sports Bar and one of the cooks mentioned Dream Theater in converstation....and I said I used to love them and that it was too bad that they quit making music. He was like 'WTF you talking about?' and he told me about Scenes and 6 Degrees. I immediately ran out and bought them and had a great mind blowing few weeks just listening to those over and over and over......

[emtee]

D'oh. PaWnT.

Met III

[gmillerdrake]

Damn, that sounds awesome.

It was. I was in my full blown 'pot head' days then so I would partake....sit back....and just listen......

[King Postwhore]

Imagine that though, being a long time DT fan, and then discovering that you've somehow missed an album called 'Scenes From a Memory' or something. That'd be a pretty swell day.

This happened to me. After FII I kind of lost track of them....got into the Heavier Music (Pantera, Machine Head...etc. etc.) and really didn't follow up with DT for a few years. In the summer of 2002 I was managing a Sports Bar and one of the cooks mentioned Dream Theater in converstation....and I said I used to love them and that it was too bad that they quit making music. He was like 'WTF you talking about?' and he told me about Scenes and 6 Degrees. I immediately ran out and bought them and had a great mind blowing few weeks just listening to those over and over and over......

I am shaming you through the internet.

[gmillerdrake]

Imagine that though, being a long time DT fan, and then discovering that you've somehow missed an album called 'Scenes From a Memory' or something. That'd be a pretty swell day.

This happened to me. After FII I kind of lost track of them....got into the Heavier Music (Pantera, Machine Head...etc. etc.) and really didn't follow up with DT for a few years. In the summer of 2002 I was managing a Sports Bar and one of the cooks mentioned Dream Theater in converstation....and I said I used to love them and that it was too bad that they quit making music. He was like 'WTF you talking about?' and he told me about Scenes and 6 Degrees. I immediately ran out and bought them and had a great mind blowing few weeks just listening to those over and over and over......

I am shaming you through the internet.

I felt ashamed. I guess I had convinced myself that just because my effort to keep up with them wained that they stopped recording music.    in my defense though....without getting too serious.....that point of my life was the worst point of my life....I wasn't in the best state of mind then.

[King Postwhore]

Sometimes music can pull you out of the rut!

[Rodni Demental]

Damn, that sounds awesome.

It was. I was in my full blown 'pot head' days then so I would partake....sit back....and just listen......

Little known secret but I was pretty much high out of my tree when I personally discovered DT. I'd been exposed to them a few times, but it took me being rather  for them to actually grab my attention and actually listen properly. All I can say is, mind blown, they became my favourite band over a short few months and the rest is history.

And ya know what, it was ANTR and AROP that practically inducted me into DT land (start of BC&SL). So I postulate that people that don't like that album clearly weren't high enough to have their socks knocked off by this amazing album. I kid of course, but still.

[Podaar]

Rodni,

I haven't    in 30 years but I had a "click" moment with AROP this weekend! 

I've been one of the folks who've slagged on BC&SL but while testing out the new networked home stereo system this weekend (everything streams off of a dedicated NAS) A Rite of Passage came on shuffle and I smiled at myself when I caught myself having that internal head-bang feeling (I'm much too dignified, and bald, to do it on the outside).

Such a great riff!

[Rodni Demental]

Haha, glad to hear it!  I definitely feel that song is underrated so nice to see good things being said about it.

Might seem a bit generic by the standard of their other work, but there's actually a lot more too it and is so much more than just a generic metal track imo. I even love Bebot, reminds me of old NES and Sega Master System sound effects and is kinda 'trippy' on a decent sound system. And the whole bridge solo section is pretty badass too. But as I implied in my last post, I have nostalgic bias towards this song. 

It's actually something I rather look forward to with the new albums; the 'metal single'. I doubt I'll be disappointed as I also think The Enemy Inside was excellent. For the record, HTF/PA/CM/AROP are all favourite songs for me, possibly for similar reasons. 

[darkshade]

Haha, glad to hear it!  I definitely feel that song is underrated so nice to see good things being said about it.

Might seem a bit generic by the standard of their other work, but there's actually a lot more too it and is so much more than just a generic metal track imo. I even love Bebot, reminds me of old NES and Sega Master System sound effects and is kinda 'trippy' on a decent sound system. And the whole bridge solo section is pretty badass too. But as I implied in my last post, I have nostalgic bias towards this song. 

It's actually something I rather look forward to with the new albums; the 'metal single'. I doubt I'll be disappointed as I also think The Enemy Inside was excellent. For the record, HTF/PA/CM/AROP are all favourite songs for me, possibly for similar reasons. 

Just to let you know, As I Am and I Walk Beside You were the "singles" from their respective album. Not sure why you think HTF was, but Panic Attack wasn't a "single" until the Rock Band game.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

AROP would be a very good, concise metal track if they'd come up with something reasonable for the middle section. Instead, we got a couple of riffs that aren't very compelling (and even grate somewhat), a JP solo that has a few good licks but is overall pretty directionless, and Bebot, which might be my least favorite section in DT history (Interestingly, I actually really like the direction JR's solo starts in; it's more melodic than most of his).

The rest of the song is definitely cool--great riffs. Most underrated part is that little descending riff that follows the chorus. The chorus and verse 2 are also pretty awesome. But the middle just drags it down to the bottom quarter of DT tracks for me.

[Rodni Demental]

Just to let you know, As I Am and I Walk Beside You were the "singles" from their respective album. Not sure why you think HTF was, but Panic Attack wasn't a "single" until the Rock Band game.

Yes you're right, although I was actually just referring to TEI as the single and then went onto compare it to other tracks that I like for similar reasons. And I much prefer HTF to AIA but I would still put AIA in that category, I just didn't.

There are even more songs that I like for similar reasons that I didn't include before so not to make my point too convoluted. Such as AFIL/PMU/TM/BMS/Home.

[BlobVanDam]

Haha, glad to hear it!  I definitely feel that song is underrated so nice to see good things being said about it.

Might seem a bit generic by the standard of their other work, but there's actually a lot more too it and is so much more than just a generic metal track imo. I even love Bebot, reminds me of old NES and Sega Master System sound effects and is kinda 'trippy' on a decent sound system. And the whole bridge solo section is pretty badass too. But as I implied in my last post, I have nostalgic bias towards this song. 

It's actually something I rather look forward to with the new albums; the 'metal single'. I doubt I'll be disappointed as I also think The Enemy Inside was excellent. For the record, HTF/PA/CM/AROP are all favourite songs for me, possibly for similar reasons. 

Just to let you know, As I Am and I Walk Beside You were the "singles" from their respective album. Not sure why you think HTF was, but Panic Attack wasn't a "single" until the Rock Band game.

I don't know if it was technically a "single", but Panic Attack was released in a radio edit before the album came out, and I remember the first we heard of it was from the radio, along with These Walls.