Check up on the ADToE/I&W-Conspiracy

[TheGreatPretender]

Wasn't BTS only added quite late on though, something that JP had basically written on his own? I'm fairly sure it was initially just the other 8 songs.

I think you're right, but I still feel like that supports the idea that (IF the similarities to I&W are intentional) at some point, they just gave up on trying to make it a reflection of I&W, and decided that some of the songs (like BMUBMD and BITS for example) were better off with their own structures.

[bosk1]

Ah yes. That's what I get for skimming.

Still, given the presence of the ninth song, like I said, it seems to me like they weren't trying overly hard to make sure that the album is a counterpart to I&W song for song, which means it's always possible that they merely included a couple of structural nuggets as MP suggested, but not necessarily on every single song.

Wasn't BTS only added quite late on though, something that JP had basically written on his own? I'm fairly sure it was initially just the other 8 songs.

Yeah, it was something that JP said he brought in relatively late in the game.  I don't remember it ever being clear whether it was just late in the writing process or after the rest of the album was completely written.  I remember Thiago speculating that it was completely after, but I don't believe it was ever established one way or the other by the band.

[TAC]

I thought he basically had it already.

[?]

I remember reading an interview or track-by-track breakdown where Jordan or JP said BMUBMD was also written towards the end of the sessions when they thought the album needed more heaviness to make it more balanced.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't know why anyone would say the copied I&W any more than why anyone would say that LNF isn't structurally the same as UAGM. It is structurally the same.

No its not. UAGM doesn't start with piano. It also doesnt have a spot right before the verse where just the bass and drums play with no vocals guitar or keyboards. Why does it always have to be so extreme? If you were to say it is structurally similar then I would be inclined to agree with you. I may even concede that it is 70% the same. That does not make it "the same".

[Grizz]

The piano solo in the intro coincides with the guitar solo in the original intro, kind of like how "watch the sparrows falling" = the bass solo in On the Backs of Angels. Just because they're not the same exact song doesn't mean they're not structurally the same.

[Madman Shepherd]

The piano solo in the intro coincides with the guitar solo in the original intro, kind of like how "watch the sparrows falling" = the bass solo in On the Backs of Angels. Just because they're not the same exact song doesn't mean they're not structurally the same.

I think the fact that they have a different structure means they are not structurally the same

[erwinrafael]

I don't know why anyone would say the copied I&W any more than why anyone would say that LNF isn't structurally the same as UAGM. It is structurally the same.

No its not. UAGM doesn't start with piano. It also doesnt have a spot right before the verse where just the bass and drums play with no vocals guitar or keyboards. Why does it always have to be so extreme? If you were to say it is structurally similar then I would be inclined to agree with you. I may even concede that it is 70% the same. That does not make it "the same".

Isn't the piano intro the only difference? There is no spot in the songs where only the bass and the drums are playing. Maybe you are referring to the spot where the bass and drums are doing a fast riff, while both the guitars and keys are doing a similar slow pattern?

[RedKlouD72]

Images and Words is a fantastic album. I wish more bands would try to copy it.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't know why anyone would say the copied I&W any more than why anyone would say that LNF isn't structurally the same as UAGM. It is structurally the same.

No its not. UAGM doesn't start with piano. It also doesnt have a spot right before the verse where just the bass and drums play with no vocals guitar or keyboards. Why does it always have to be so extreme? If you were to say it is structurally similar then I would be inclined to agree with you. I may even concede that it is 70% the same. That does not make it "the same".

Isn't the piano intro the only difference? There is no spot in the songs where only the bass and the drums are playing. Maybe you are referring to the spot where the bass and drums are doing a fast riff, while both the guitars and keys are doing a similar slow pattern?

Right before the lyrics "An epic story never told" it is just bass and drums although the guitar is holding out the note from the previous passage.  So even if the next part is structurally the same or several parts before or after are, there are several parts that deviate from that structure.

[Dream Team]

Ranked in order of "similar-itis":

95% UAGM - LNF: The most obvious one, with even the first verse riff and guitar solo being incredibly similar
85% MET - OC: very structurally similar; the intros and concluding crescendos of the instrumental sections especially
80% PMU - OTBOA: very similar structure
70% LTL - BAL: pretty similar up thru the bridge but then it falls apart (both have a major-key uplifting sound as pretty much all of I&W does)
60% WFS - FFH: mostly similar only due to being piano-based and their relation to the ensuing songs
50% AD - TITL: TITL is actually more similar to TSCO than AD in my opinion

TTT and Surrounded really bear no resemblance to any song on ADTOE. BAI doesn't seem to be mentioned much, but really that first verse bass-and-drum pattern IS a direct rip-off of LTL; it's even in the same time sig isn't it?

By the way I love ADTOE, so I have no problem with the "homage".

[Skeever]

Ranked in order of "similar-itis":

95% UAGM - LNF: The most obvious one, with even the first verse riff and guitar solo being incredibly similar
85% MET - OC: very structurally similar; the intros and concluding crescendos of the instrumental sections especially
80% PMU - OTBOA: very similar structure
70% LTL - BAL: pretty similar up thru the bridge but then it falls apart (both have a major-key uplifting sound as pretty much all of I&W does)
60% WFS - FFH: mostly similar only due to being piano-based and their relation to the ensuing songs
50% AD - TITL: TITL is actually more similar to TSCO than AD in my opinion

TTT and Surrounded really bear no resemblance to any song on ADTOE. BAI doesn't seem to be mentioned much, but really that first verse bass-and-drum pattern IS a direct rip-off of LTL; it's even in the same time sig isn't it?

By the way I love ADTOE, so I have no problem with the "homage".

A+