Your ultimate Dream Theater masterpiece song

[theaterdream]

This was a tough one actually. My favorite is: Breaking All Illusions.

Followed closely by Learning To Live and Outcry. Years ago, I would have said A Change of Seasons but to me that one hasn't aged as well. I love James' vocals on the others. ACOS has James screaming the lyrics at times.

[Nekov]

Pretty simple for me, Blind Faith. The song begins very mellow and peaceful and slowly grows into a pure full on DT song and the instrumental section is DT's best IMO. This song is perfect.

[Wardy]

From back in the day;  A Change Of Seasons

From more recently; Behind The Veil

[erwinrafael]

I am changing my vote. It is not Illumination Theory anymore. I am now voting for the Breaking the Fourth Wall version of Illumination Theory. I have never heard anything as epic.

[N4Player]

The Count of Tuscany.

[efx]

Learning To Live

[lucky7]

Six degrees of inner turbulence. 

[Sun]

Umm A Change of Seasons probably (live version is better).

[LTE3]

                           Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence the song is brilliant and followed Scenes From a Memory which was a tall order. The album is also my desert choice of I can have only one DT.

[RuRoRul]

In The Name Of God.

[jammindude]

Octavarium

[GasparXR]

It's hard to choose between Octavarium, Illumination Theory, and Lines in the Sand. (surprised no one has said LITS yet, unless I missed it)

[abrandnewname]

My choice is Lie.

[The Stray Seed]

Learning To Live, Metropolis. Those two songs most of all (there are others as well, even from DT) will most likely stay with me forever.

Absolutely this!!!!!!!

[chaossystem]

The Root of All Evil

[Hadi]

The spirit carries on

When i listen to it i feel disconnected from the real world.

[wolfking]

Probably Octavarium

[Dave_Manchester]

Let me do it this way, a kind of process of elimination (theory):

Masterpiece of each album -

WDADU - none
I&W - Metropolis
Awake - Scarred
FII - Trial of Tears
SFAM - Home
6DOIT - Blind Faith
TOT - In The Name of God
Octavarium - Octavarium
SC - none
BC&SL - The Count of Tuscany
ADTOE - Breaking All Illusions
DT12 - Illumination Theory

Masterpiece of each decade -

80s - none
90s - Trial of Tears
2000s - The Count of Tuscany
2010s - Illumination Theory

Final podium:

1st place - The Count of Tuscany
2nd place - Illumination Theory
3rd place - Trial of Tears

[fischermasamune]

1st: The Dance of Eternity
2nd: Metropolis Pt I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
3rd: Illumination Theory

We should be able to vote in a poll!

[TheGreatPretender]

Metropolis. It's my #1 Dream Theater song, and even though I listened to it to death, it will always remain my #1. It's simply flawless. The tone and the sounds are perfect, each musician + LaBrie are perfect on it, the lyrics are beautiful, there are both complex and beautiful, melodic parts. No annoying samples. And at just under 10 minutes, it does it all in one tight, concise package.
It's a predictable choice, but there's a good reason for that.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Metropolis. It's my #1 Dream Theater song, and even though I listened to it to death, it will always remain my #1. It's simply flawless. The tone and the sounds are perfect, each musician + LaBrie are perfect on it, the lyrics are beautiful, there are both complex and beautiful, melodic parts. No annoying samples. And at just under 10 minutes, it does it all in one tight, concise package.
It's a predictable choice, but there's a good reason for that.

[Dublagent66]

For me, it's between SDOIT, BAI and IT. I thinl I will gonwith Illumination Theory for being sobwell composed, with all parts fitting in the song's narrative.

Fail

I am changing my vote. It is not Illumination Theory anymore. I am now voting for the Breaking the Fourth Wall version of Illumination Theory. I have never heard anything as epic.

Failed to correct 1st fail.


Failed to correct 2nd fail.


Result = Epic Fail     Just messin' with ya...but seriously, I don't think you put in enough effort to weigh all your available options here.  Just sayin'   

[ThatOneGuy2112]

You'll never stop will you?

[erwinrafael]

For me, it's between SDOIT, BAI and IT. I thinl I will gonwith Illumination Theory for being sobwell composed, with all parts fitting in the song's narrative.

Fail

I am changing my vote. It is not Illumination Theory anymore. I am now voting for the Breaking the Fourth Wall version of Illumination Theory. I have never heard anything as epic.

Failed to correct 1st fail.


Failed to correct 2nd fail.


Result = Epic Fail     Just messin' with ya...but seriously, I don't think you put in enough effort to weigh all your available options here.  Just sayin'   

Nah, I am sure with my vote. I listen to DT's entire discography at least once a month. Awake and DT 12, my favorite albums, almost every day and when I feel like it, as much as 5 times a day.  I am a fan of music whose structures, melodies, sound, and lyrics complement each other so well to deliver a coherent message or feel to the listener, and I pretty much saw those elements really come together in IT and BAI. The BtFW version of IT, in particular, sort of fulfilled DT's vision of how it would sound, with the orchestra and choir.

[mahyar.sn]

Maaaan its too damn hard, but right now Id go with IT
this part just kills me and brings me back to life on and on:
To really feel the joy in life, you must suffer from the pain

but ACOS is a rival, if I wanted to summerize DT in a song, thatd be one of these

[Laughingplace56]

Let me do it this way, a kind of process of elimination (theory):

Masterpiece of each album -

*snip*

Masterpiece of each decade -

*snip*

Final podium:

*snip*

Stealing this format:

Masterpiece of each album:

WDADU- no masterpiece, but my favorite it Only A Matter of Time
I&W- Learning to Live
Awake- Space Dye Vest
FII- Trial of Tears
SFaM- Dance of Eternity (if anyone asked me to define DT, this is the song I'd choose. It's not my favorite off the album, but it's a musical masterpiece and is every the band encompasses wrapped up in a crazy 6 minute instrumental.)
SDoIT- The Glass fucking Prison
ToT- In the Name of God
8VM- 8VM
SC- ITPoE, Pt 1
BC&SL- Count of Tuscany
ADToE- Bridges in the Sky
DT12- Illumination Theory

Masterpiece of the Decade
80s- none
90s- Dance of Eternity
2000's- Octavarium
2010's- Illumination Theory

Just a rough summary of their masterpieces per album/decade. Overall, I think their biggest musical achievements are 8VM, TDoE, LtL, Metropolis, SDoIT, 12 Step Suite (minus Repentance), Breaking All Illusions, Illumination Theory, Trial of Tears, and Home, among many many other amazing compositions. These are just the 10 that seem to stand out the most to me as actual masterpieces.

[fischermasamune]

Instead of decades one could use periods, like the pre-Rudess era, the RR era, and the middle! In general dividing in groups of similar size is better.
Another advantage is that I can pull off my combo again: Metropolis/TDOE/IT.

[Dublagent66]

For me, it's between SDOIT, BAI and IT. I thinl I will gonwith Illumination Theory for being sobwell composed, with all parts fitting in the song's narrative.

Fail

I am changing my vote. It is not Illumination Theory anymore. I am now voting for the Breaking the Fourth Wall version of Illumination Theory. I have never heard anything as epic.

Failed to correct 1st fail.


Failed to correct 2nd fail.


Result = Epic Fail     Just messin' with ya...but seriously, I don't think you put in enough effort to weigh all your available options here.  Just sayin'   

Nah, I am sure with my vote. I listen to DT's entire discography at least once a month. Awake and DT 12, my favorite albums, almost every day and when I feel like it, as much as 5 times a day.  I am a fan of music whose structures, melodies, sound, and lyrics complement each other so well to deliver a coherent message or feel to the listener, and I pretty much saw those elements really come together in IT and BAI. The BtFW version of IT, in particular, sort of fulfilled DT's vision of how it would sound, with the orchestra and choir.

I would've agreed had you picked the BTFW version of BAI.  That was the highlight of the entire live album for me.  I'm a fan of music but not so much lyrics.  The music has to speak to me first before the lyrics can mean anything.  Good lyrics will never save a poorly arranged song that is incoherent.  On the other hand, good music that flows from beginning to end can easily be much more appreciated even with lack luster lyrics.  A good example of this is TCOT.  The music is first and foremost.  Lyrics are just a form of filler.  If I wanted to appreciate meaningful words, I would read poetry.  The music in BAI is a perfect representation of a very well arranged and executed DT song.  "IT" doesn't even come close.  It doesn't flow and is extremely disjointed with an intermission of orchestra that has nothing to do with anything else in the song.  A disappointing closer to a somewhat disappointing album as a whole.  Only 3 songs I can get through without skipping.  TEI, TLG and BTV.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I would've agreed had you picked the BTFW version of BAI.  That was the highlight of the entire live album for me.  I'm a fan of music but not so much lyrics.  The music has to speak to me first before the lyrics can mean anything.  Good lyrics will never save a poorly arranged song that is incoherent.  On the other hand, good music that flows from beginning to end can easily be much more appreciated even with lack luster lyrics.  A good example of this is TCOT.  The music is first and foremost.  Lyrics are just a form of filler.  If I wanted to appreciate meaningful words, I would read poetry.  The music in BAI is a perfect representation of a very well arranged and executed DT song.  "IT" doesn't even come close.  It doesn't flow and is extremely disjointed with an intermission of orchestra that has nothing to do with anything else in the song.  A disappointing closer to a somewhat disappointing album as a whole.  Only 3 songs I can get through without skipping.  TEI, TLG and BTV.

Agreed about BAI being masterfully arranged and executed. Disagreed about IT being not.

Also agree about music coming first and foremost besides just lyrics (though it really depends on what kind of music we're looking at), but then it's a good thing IT is also so masterfully executed in that department. It still amuses me how it still gets shit for the orchestral section. Ragtime break downs don't really have anything to do with the main song either. It flows plenty well anyways. There's a good minute and half of ambiance right before it so it doesn't necessarily just come out of nowhere. And the ever-infamous bass interlude that ends it? Not every transition needs this slow, gradual crossfade. In fact, that would make things boring and formulaic if overdone. The sudden halt to the music is made poignant and evident with Myung and Mangini's groove, and this really drives the tone home. It's a spiral descent into building chaos, and that transition creates so much drama and anticipation.

As for the rest of the song, everything about it really just nails it. At points, it reaches such emotional highs that rival that of BAI. I'd call it a very satisfying end to a very satisfying album on the whole.

[took_the_time11]

Metropolis. "Metropolis watches and thoughtfully smiles, shes taking you to your home".

[TheGreatPretender]

"Now the miracle and the sleeper know, that Metropolis is the best! Metropolis is the best song... By Deam Theater."

[Dublagent66]

I would've agreed had you picked the BTFW version of BAI.  That was the highlight of the entire live album for me.  I'm a fan of music but not so much lyrics.  The music has to speak to me first before the lyrics can mean anything.  Good lyrics will never save a poorly arranged song that is incoherent.  On the other hand, good music that flows from beginning to end can easily be much more appreciated even with lack luster lyrics.  A good example of this is TCOT.  The music is first and foremost.  Lyrics are just a form of filler.  If I wanted to appreciate meaningful words, I would read poetry.  The music in BAI is a perfect representation of a very well arranged and executed DT song.  "IT" doesn't even come close.  It doesn't flow and is extremely disjointed with an intermission of orchestra that has nothing to do with anything else in the song.  A disappointing closer to a somewhat disappointing album as a whole.  Only 3 songs I can get through without skipping.  TEI, TLG and BTV.

Agreed about BAI being masterfully arranged and executed. Disagreed about IT being not.

Also agree about music coming first and foremost besides just lyrics (though it really depends on what kind of music we're looking at), but then it's a good thing IT is also so masterfully executed in that department. It still amuses me how it still gets shit for the orchestral section. Ragtime break downs don't really have anything to do with the main song either. It flows plenty well anyways. There's a good minute and half of ambiance right before it so it doesn't necessarily just come out of nowhere. And the ever-infamous bass interlude that ends it? Not every transition needs this slow, gradual crossfade. In fact, that would make things boring and formulaic if overdone. The sudden halt to the music is made poignant and evident with Myung and Mangini's groove, and this really drives the tone home. It's a spiral descent into building chaos, and that transition creates so much drama and anticipation.

As for the rest of the song, everything about it really just nails it. At points, it reaches such emotional highs that rival that of BAI. I'd call it a very satisfying end to a very satisfying album on the whole.

I don't think ragtime is a good comparison.  Ragtime is meant to be off track, goofy and relatively short lived.  It's deliberate.  The orchestra section in IT is like a completely different song and the ambience before hand isn't really anything new.  In fact, when I listen to this song, I find myself trying to keep track of everything that sounds familiar.  The beginning sounds like parts of SDOIT.  Next, I'm hearing parts of TMoLS, ITNoG, and ITPOE.  Orchestra section tries to sound like Overture.  Following that, it tries to sound like Rush then you have the JP/JR guitar/keyboard duel.  Nothing really new there either.  Now, I'm hearing something that came from SFAM and to top it off, it finishes like SDOIT with gong at the end.  If I didn't know any better, Illumination Theory sounds more like a medley than an original song.  A hodge podge of previously conceived ideas.  It's all over the place.  So, if that's what people like, more power to ya.  I'm expecting something unique and original when hearing a new song that is nearly 20 mins in length.  Guess I'll just have to wait and see what the next one is like.  IT just doesn't make the cut.

[hefdaddy42]

We'll have to agree to disagree, because nothing in the song struck me like it struck you.

[erwinrafael]

I would've agreed had you picked the BTFW version of BAI.  That was the highlight of the entire live album for me.  I'm a fan of music but not so much lyrics.  The music has to speak to me first before the lyrics can mean anything.  Good lyrics will never save a poorly arranged song that is incoherent.  On the other hand, good music that flows from beginning to end can easily be much more appreciated even with lack luster lyrics.  A good example of this is TCOT.  The music is first and foremost.  Lyrics are just a form of filler.  If I wanted to appreciate meaningful words, I would read poetry.  The music in BAI is a perfect representation of a very well arranged and executed DT song.  "IT" doesn't even come close.  It doesn't flow and is extremely disjointed with an intermission of orchestra that has nothing to do with anything else in the song.  A disappointing closer to a somewhat disappointing album as a whole.  Only 3 songs I can get through without skipping.  TEI, TLG and BTV.

Agreed about BAI being masterfully arranged and executed. Disagreed about IT being not.

Also agree about music coming first and foremost besides just lyrics (though it really depends on what kind of music we're looking at), but then it's a good thing IT is also so masterfully executed in that department. It still amuses me how it still gets shit for the orchestral section. Ragtime break downs don't really have anything to do with the main song either. It flows plenty well anyways. There's a good minute and half of ambiance right before it so it doesn't necessarily just come out of nowhere. And the ever-infamous bass interlude that ends it? Not every transition needs this slow, gradual crossfade. In fact, that would make things boring and formulaic if overdone. The sudden halt to the music is made poignant and evident with Myung and Mangini's groove, and this really drives the tone home. It's a spiral descent into building chaos, and that transition creates so much drama and anticipation.

As for the rest of the song, everything about it really just nails it. At points, it reaches such emotional highs that rival that of BAI. I'd call it a very satisfying end to a very satisfying album on the whole.

I don't think ragtime is a good comparison.  Ragtime is meant to be off track, goofy and relatively short lived.  It's deliberate.  The orchestra section in IT is like a completely different song and the ambience before hand isn't really anything new.  In fact, when I listen to this song, I find myself trying to keep track of everything that sounds familiar.  The beginning sounds like parts of SDOIT.  Next, I'm hearing parts of TMoLS, ITNoG, and ITPOE.  Orchestra section tries to sound like Overture.  Following that, it tries to sound like Rush then you have the JP/JR guitar/keyboard duel.  Nothing really new there either.  Now, I'm hearing something that came from SFAM and to top it off, it finishes like SDOIT with gong at the end.  If I didn't know any better, Illumination Theory sounds more like a medley than an original song.  A hodge podge of previously conceived ideas.  It's all over the place.  So, if that's what people like, more power to ya.  I'm expecting something unique and original when hearing a new song that is nearly 20 mins in length.  Guess I'll just have to wait and see what the next one is like.  IT just doesn't make the cut.

Good day. I have posted in other IT threads before my interpretation of Illumination Theory and why I believe it is a masterpiece from a compositional perspective. I never gave primacy to the lyrics, but I see lyrics as PART of the music, not separate from it. The lyrics, as part of the music, should be coherent to the NARRATIVE that the song is trying to put across with the words and the music. I would like to put forward again my understanding of the narrative of IT, which made sense for me, and which is why I really don't see it as a mishmash of previous ideas from other DT songs.

                                                                                 Unilluminated Section                                            Illuminated Section
       Structural similarities                                        Relatively "dark" music                                      Relatively "uplifting" music

Drum roll                                                                          Crescendo                                                          Decrescendo
                                                                                              ˅                                                                            ˄
Slow, majestic, paradox as theme                 Movement 1. Paradox of the Black Light          Movement 8. Surrender, Trust and Passion
                                                                                                                                                           (with paradoxical lyrics)
                                                                                              ˅                                                                            ˄
Similar rocking riff, signals a journey             Movement 2. Transition to questions               Movement 7. Transition from answers
                                                                                              ˅                                                                            ˄
Mini-song in itself, lyrics-driven at start,       Movement 3. Live, Die, Kill                               Movement 6. The Pursuit of Truth
ends with instrumental, grounded                           (asks the questions)                                              (gives the answers)
                                                                                              ˅                                                                            ˄
Band not playing, not on an "earthly" plane   Movement 4. Embracing Circle                          Movement 5. Embracing Circle
                                                                      (ambient, formless, directionless)           (orchestral reprise of Movement 1, new beginning)
                                                                                              ˅                                                                             ˄
Transition from unilluminated to illuminated                                    Embracing Circle, first orchestral section


As you can see from the interpretation above, the lyrics contributed to the narrative, but the music was even more integral to telling the story of the song. This is my interpretation, so I am not imposing it on anyone (as Blob reminded me back when I was still too eager to push this interpretation). But I am sharing it (again) because I want to share also my joy when I saw this narrative. I would like to believe that this is what DT intended because they have a history of being really purposive in their compositions, and also because structural similarities of this scale within songs are hard to achieve without being purposive. It's hard to imagine for me that this mirroring structure would come out due to coincidence. And this is why I believe that it is a compositional masterpiece for DT.

[hefdaddy42]

To me, this analysis is as clear as day.  Once it is mapped out, you can see what they were going for, and opens up whole new ways to appreciate the song.

People are, of course, free to interpret it their own way, but I find it difficult to argue with this.