Which musical directions should DT consider, or what do you wish they will take?

[rumborak]

This is very reminiscent of the Tchaikovsky discussion, where people were clamoring "I don't hear it, it's not the same!", and it took Eren Basbug to come out and say "yeah, of course we plugged Tchaikovsky into it."

[KevShmev]

You are missing the point.  My point is that I think it it silly to say that DT12 is Rush-like just because of a few riffs, just like it would be silly to say that Octavarium is Muse-like just because of two things (the Never Enough riff and the Panic Attack falsetto jumps).

[rumborak]

Are you the great arbiter over what percentage of Rush-like sections is required in an album for it to be called Rush-like? There are two songs on the album that start out like Rush songs. One sticks with it to the end, the other lasts for a solid 45 seconds before it veers off. That is far more than a fleeting association. Case in point, nobody accuses Awake to be UK-like because they plugged In The Dead of Night into Trial of Tears.

[TheGreatPretender]

And to be fair, I'd say even Ytsejam is a bit reminiscent of YYZ, and it's not like DT have ever been secretive about how influenced they are by rush.
Really, anyone who says, "Man, you can hear Rush influence in DT12", all I have to say is:

[KevShmev]

Really, anyone who says, "Man, you can hear Rush influence in DT12", all I have to say is:

I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, right?

Regarding Ytse Jam, even though the main melody is not something you'd hear out of Rush, I think the structure of it is definitely influenced by YYZ.

Are you the great arbiter over what percentage of Rush-like sections is required in an album for it to be called Rush-like? 

As a matter of fact, I am.

[rumborak]

As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?

We got so far

Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)

what else?

[KevShmev]

I know some think the one riff in The Great Debate is rather Natural Science-ish.  I never quite got that one either, but some have said it.

The Best of Times is the most glaring with the obvious nods to The Spirit of Radio.

Oh, and the intro to Trial of Tears sounds like a combination of Mr. Roboto (the keys) and Rush's Xanadu (some of the drum fills are like right out of Xanadu's intro).

[rumborak]

Most solos on WDADU are very Lifeson too.

[KevShmev]

I can see that, but I remember JP saying, around the time of WDADR I think, that many of the solos on the first record were Yngwie-influenced, what with all of the sweep picking and whatnot.

[TheGreatPretender]

I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, right?

Regarding Ytse Jam, even though the main melody is not something you'd hear out of Rush, I think the structure of it is definitely influenced by YYZ.

Although to be fair, even YYZ, when I hear that main riff, I'd say that's a little bit inspired (or at least reminds me of) King Crimson, so maybe that's the better comparison.


As for other DT Rush influences, personally, I find that in Innocence Faded, the breakdown where JLB starts singing, "Beginnings get complicated the farther we progress" sounds a lot like something Rush would do, at least in terms of vocals and the structure, having that C section that doesn't fit the format of the verses or the choruses.

[?]

The start of the outro in Innocence Faded has a Red Barchetta vibe,and the bass-and-drums-only section in Illumination Theory reminds me of Cygnus X-1 with its sudden starts and stops.

Status Seeker also sounds a bit like 80s Rush to my ears; Charlie himself has admitted that his vocals in the first verse may be compared to Geddy's in New World Man.

[Mosh]

Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like?  I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example.

Besides the intro of Surrender To Reason, I find the solo to be very Rush like as well.
The bass riff after the Orchestral middle of IT has a Cygnus X-1 vibe IMO.
I can't think of much else, but 3 songs is quite a lot to carry a Rush influence, since on other albums it's always limited to one song, if that.

As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?

We got so far

Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)

what else?

Innocence Faded (Verses have an 80's Rush vibe)
Trial of Tears (Xanadu)
The Dance Of Eternity (Ending is reminiscent of Freewill, even the band cited it as an influence)
I hear Natural Science in TGD, but I find the Tool influence to overpower that quite a bit.

[King Postwhore]

As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?

We got so far

Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)

what else?

I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.

Either way, it's just an influence.

[Skeever]

Less Rush influence would be great.

[King Postwhore]

They've always wore Rush on their sleeves.

[Scorpion]

You know, it's weird. There is not a single Rush song that I like, but I like a lot of DT's songs that are the most influenced by Rush - Trial of Tears is my favourite DT song, for example.

[theseoafs]

DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.

See, as much as I would like for this to be the case, I honestly don't see it happening.  I just don't know if the kind of crazy experimentation we saw in SFAM or SDOIT is really in the cards anymore.  DT's musical identity seems to kind of just be set in stone and they don't seem too keen to veer from the beaten path.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I would like for Dream Theater to write another album of mostly long songs like Black Clouds & Silver Linings, but with more of a prog sound than a metal sound. A lot of Dream Theater's best songs are their proggy mini-epics (Learning to Live, Scarred, Trial of Tears, Beyond This Life, Breaking All Illusions) and an album consisting of those type of songs has the potential to be the best album they ever put out.

[LTE3]

Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?


Feel free to mention bands (for example: Planet X, Animal as Leaders, TesseracT, Blotted Science, Intervals, etc...) from which DT might take inspiration.

This for me has been the negative for the band when they are too influenced from the outside. On octavaium it happened with too much of Muse influence and too much of the band Red. On the latest I feel they went too much into the Djent area actually and were being influence form touring with Trivium, and JP nephew's band Periphery. The guitar tone that I have always loved from john seemed to compressed on the latest. So although I appreciate they are music fans and don't mind wearing there tastes on their sleeves I think at this point they should be the ones creating and other should be sounding like them not the other way around. Rush almost not arguably DT's biggest influence have managed to keep creating new sounds and they are the trend setters, I feel DT should at this point be the trend setters as they have the most talent.  I don't want to see John with an 8 string guitar. 

[Volante99]

I'm fine where they are. I just don't want them to get lazy or generic. of course, some would argue they're already there...

They are getting generic.  I think too much focus has been on touring and not enough effort is going into making solid albums.  There is an achievable balance between the two.  Of course, it was reversed in the early years when they had more time to concentrate on writing really good music.  I don't like the direction that RR is taking the band.  They've lost the really complex, jazzy and technical side of their writing.  They need to get back to their heavily progressive roots.

This pretty much sums my feelings exactly. DT is and always have been my favorite band but they really haven't broken new ground in a decade. I feel like DT need to step up their game a bit on the song writing end.

Despite what the MTV might think, Prog and metal is going through a new golden age. There are so many bands out there doing great things, innovating, pushing the genre. And while DT has been able to capitalize on this commercially, they really haven't kept up. And I'm not just talking about pure prog wankery bands like Animals as Leaders or Periphery. While they aren't "prog" in the traditional sense, bands like Opeth, Steve Wilson, Insomnium, Pallbearer, Mastodon are doing more "progressive" interesting music.

I realize they are getting towards the tail end of their careers but I no longer feel like they're leaders in a genre they helped establish so many years ago.

[PROGdrummer]

They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.

[BlobVanDam]

They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.

No thanks. They've done enough '70s inspired prog, I think they should do something new.

[GasparXR]

They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.

No thanks. They've done enough '70s inspired prog, I think they should do something new.

I think it's likely that at least JP will continue to be influenced by 2010s prog metal. I'm perfectly fine with that because the uses he's made of that inspiration on DT12 have been fantastic.

[PROGdrummer]

I was kidding 

[Xenon]

They sould go in experimentation direction.

[wasteland]

I was kidding 

Thank God! 

[Sycsa]

Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)

I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.

I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.

[adastra]

I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.

[Zydar]

Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)

I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.

I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.

I immediately thought of Limelight at my first listen to The Looking Glass. Surrender To Reason has a more undefined Rush vibe to me.

[Lucien]

Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)

I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.

I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.

I immediately thought of Limelight at my first listen to The Looking Glass. Surrender To Reason has a more undefined Rush vibe to me.

[wolfking]

Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?

I don't care, they should follow whatever makes them create amazing music.

[ErHaO]

I want a new concept album from them. Not a sequel to Scenes or a similar one in terms of sound/songwriting. I just like the cohesiveness of that album a lot (and of the better concept albums in general) and fully believe they are capable of creating another intriguing story with a fitting soundtrack (or maybe pick an existing story).

The song lengths of DT12 are great and I wish they continue with that (in addition to one or two epics). As for the sound I would like something like DT12 with MUCH better mastering and drum sound. A bit loud and in the face is good, but they went to far and the CD sounds crappy (vinyl is pretty good though). Furthermore, I would love to see Labrie taking some more risks on the album (similar to some parts in IT). He pulls of the Awake songs very well live now, so he should be capable to add some more of that old school DT punch to a few new songs here and there as well. And last but not least: more Jordan action than in DT12.

[Xenon]

I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.

I like this idea

[?]

I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.

A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.

[wasteland]

I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.

A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.

Smaller and more intimate venues work when logistis allowes it. An example close to myself: in 2012 the band was joined by 8 to 9 thousands fan on each date in the major Italian cities. How can you play smaller venues with such a following without increasing the number of dates and thus engorging disproportionately the tour?