Dream Theater's Influences and Inspirations: Love 'em or Hate 'em

[Outcrier]

There's some pretty lazy rap out there, but there's just as many 'lazy' pop punk metal (etc.) acts.

Yet, this seems a really difficult thing to understand 
It's easy to bash on a genre that you only have listened the "lazy" part of it.
In my experience, i always found mainstream rap pretty bad, even disgusting sometimes but, i always knew that, if i explored the genre, i would find things that i liked. What i didn't expected is that it would turn in one of my favorites genres due to having lots of great music.
In the end, i find so sad that generic Hip Hop is millions time more popular than the really talented stuff 

[chaossystem]

I never said that bands like "Between the Buried and Me" "opeth," etc. aren't RELEVANT. I said that to a lot us they may be somewhat obscure. Especially to us OLDER D.T. fans, who are more familier with 1970's classic and progressive rock and 1980's power (yuck! I HATE that term!) and thrash metal.

[chaossystem]

I'd consider it more, well, a word that rhymes with rap, than rap. 

You mean crap?

[chaossystem]

                               

These paragraphs make me want to belch, puke, and abuse you with a turntable.

I was expecting to be threatened with some form of physical violence. But I have to admit that this one was pretty clever and creative,lol

[chaossystem]

I used to feel the same way about rap. That bullshit gangster rap would be all I heard driving down the road with the subs rattling the trunk adding insult to injury... But then I moved to Arizona and now all I hear is mariachi music everywhere I go. That bullshit gangster rap aint so bad anymore.

I live more or less in the same area, sir, and I don't like the Mexican polka music either, but it's not as prevalent as rap.

[chaossystem]

Yeah, even if you don't like a band, coming up with derogatory nicknames that you insist on calling them seems a bit middle-school-ish.

I mean, I technically never got past middle school, but... uh



...

    yeah


probably didn't need to say that.....


Sorry, I was just having a little fun. And I'm also sorry that you didn't make through school. Why don't you try to get a G.E.D., if you haven't alreadt?

[chaossystem]

I will say that you got your overrated bands mixed up. I like to call them AC/PeePee. 

Funny. But I didn't say AC/DC was the best or greatest, I just happen to like some of their songs, and they were first alphabetically.

[chaossystem]

Some asshole belching and puking into a microphone while some other dick abuses a turntable
             
       
       

                                                                     

Man I've been listening to the wrong kind of rap.  This sounds absolutely incredible.


Yeah! It's called "Punk Rap!" Pretty cool, huh?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I was kidding.

Also, when replying, you can hit the "Insert Quote" button if you want to quote more than one post in your reply.

[chaossystem]

Uh huh

Bringing it back down to earth - I don't mind rap for what it is. I know its misogynistic etc but I think many rap artists are saying the things they say behind a character.

That's of course fine, creating a character.  Does anyone think Ozzy was talking about his personal experiences on "Mr Tinkertrain"?   (which is an amazing song btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vi6viYMvMw)
[/quote

I will admit that I've softened my attitude abot rap in one area within the last couple of vyears or so: I used to take all of that sex/murder/drug/gangbanging shit seriousely, but I have come to realize that a lot of it is just hype and image, and a lot of these people live the same boring, normal lives that a lot of the rest of us do.

And Certainly HOPE that Ozzy isn't really a pedophile!

[chaossystem]

He doesn't want them shot but if they east coast/west cost anyway, it's all good?
[/qu
ote]

Are YOU going to stop them from killing each other?

[chaossystem]

I think the more interesting question is, did you discover these influences BECAUSE of DT, or were you a fan of them before you heard DT for the first time?

Well that was pretty much what I meant. Since I was already in my early 30's when "Images" came out, I was already familier with all (or most) of those other bands, But I realize that a lot of younger people might be more familiar with Dream Theater than say AC/DC, Sabbath, B.O.C., Deep Purplr, Kansas, etc. That's what the discussion is supposed to STEM from: getting both (or all) points of view.

[chaossystem]

I want to make it ABUDENTLY CLEAR that i am NOT saying that rappers or people who listen to rap should be shot

...

or even that it should be illegal!

Well that's where I'm going to have to disagree with you 

You think that rap SHOULD b e illegal? Then you're even WORSE than ME!

[chaossystem]

Somewhere on a rap forum there is a post saying "I don't even consider Dream Theater music. It's some middle-aged men practicing their instruments on stage, and some wannabe opera singer sings some lyrics over it they wrote because they felt it was required."

You're probably right, and I don't have a problem with that. I actually think it's kind of funny, and I can see how that might be true, from a certain point of view.

[chaossystem]

Led Zeppelin is awesome, come check out the Discography thread in GM.

This would be another good example of: "I've already more than enough to know that I don't like it!"

[Dublagent66]

Dude.    are you doing?  Double, triple, quadruple and quintuple posting is not recommended.

Also, when replying, you can hit the "Insert Quote" button if you want to quote more than one post in your reply.

[chaossystem]

Okay, what about the "Born into this world a broken home, Surrounded by love yet all alone," section of This Dying Soul?

If you listen to "Just Let Me Breathe" and "Lie" they seem to have seem to have a bit of a "rap influence" as well. Ironically, I like BOTH of those songs. Always have.

Totally forgot about Just Let Me Breathe, you're right.

But that's what I'm saying, your bitter disdain for Rap is a bit misguided, I think. I'm not saying you should explore the genre and listen to the better artists out there, but don't just throw the entire thing into a pile and say that it sounds... The way you said it sounded.

Another example of what I've been trying to say: To me the opening riff of "Just Let Me Breathe" sounds a lot like "Welcome to the Jungle" (to me, at least) now...you might have some D.T. fans who HATE Guns'N'Roses, but still like that song, but that doesn't mean they're going to change their mind about G'N'R.

[SuperTaco]

Well that was pretty much what I meant. Since I was already in my early 30's when "Images" came out, I was already familier with all (or most) of those other bands, But I realize that a lot of younger people might be more familiar with Dream Theater than say AC/DC, Sabbath, B.O.C., Deep Purplr, Kansas, etc. That's what the discussion is supposed to STEM from: getting both (or all) points of view.

...I'm shocked.

Anyway, I would highly advise you to take the people's advice and learn how to embed quotes. It's very easy to embed multiple quotes and reply to them properly if you take a moment to learn.

[Mosh]

Rap as a genre stands for "Rhythmic American Poetry"

No it doesn't.

Stunning argument. 

Like many genre names, such as jazz or even heavy metal, the etymology is quite disputed. There isn't any certain origin to the rap title, just several theories. "Rhythmic American Poetry" is very much a valid theory and works enough for what the genre is.

[chaossystem]

Well that was pretty much what I meant. Since I was already in my early 30's when "Images" came out, I was already familier with all (or most) of those other bands, But I realize that a lot of younger people might be more familiar with Dream Theater than say AC/DC, Sabbath, B.O.C., Deep Purplr, Kansas, etc. That's what the discussion is supposed to STEM from: getting both (or all) points of view.

...I'm shocked.

Anyway, I would highly advise you to take the people's advice and learn how to embed quotes. It's very easy to embed multiple quotes and reply to them properly if you take a moment to learn.

I know, but I just figured out how to do this, and there were a bunch of posts that I wanted to respond to, and I just decided to take care of it all at once. How do you do the "Embedding" thing?

[ThatOneGuy2112]

If, say, you want to reply to multiple quotes in one post, just hit the "Insert Quote" button on the top right of that post you want to quote. Below the box where you're typing your response, the most recent posts in the thread will appear and that's where you can do it. Doing it all in different posts isn't needed.

[rumborak]

That Rhythmic American Poetry theory is totally bogus and a classic case of a retronym (like golf supposedly means "gentlemen only, ladies forbid",whereas it's really a Scottish loanword, gouf).

From etymonline.com:
rap (v.2)
"talk informally, chat," 1929, popularized c.1965 in Black English, possibly first in Caribbean English and from British slang meaning "say, utter" (1879), originally "to utter a sudden oath" (1540s), ultimately from rap (n.). As a noun in this sense from 1898. Meaning "to perform rap music" is recorded by 1979. Related: Rapped; rapping.

[TheGreatPretender]

That Rhythmic American Poetry theory is totally bogus and a classic case of a retronym (like golf supposedly means "gentlemen only, ladies forbid",whereas it's really a Scottish loanword, gouf).

From etymonline.com:
rap (v.2)
"talk informally, chat," 1929, popularized c.1965 in Black English, possibly first in Caribbean English and from British slang meaning "say, utter" (1879), originally "to utter a sudden oath" (1540s), ultimately from rap (n.). As a noun in this sense from 1898. Meaning "to perform rap music" is recorded by 1979. Related: Rapped; rapping.

Well, regardless, that's basically what it is, Rhythmic American Poetry. And yes, I know, it's not an art form exclusive to America, but it did originate there, in the same way that Jazz did. Point is, those are the two focal points, rhythm and poetry. I'm not really here to debate etymology. 

[Zook]

I thought it stood for Retards Attempting Poetry.

[TheGreatPretender]

I thought it stood for Retards Attempting Poetry.

If all rappers are retards, then there are a hell of a lot Rain Man like savants out there, who do more amazing and creative things with vocabulary than most people are even capable of. Definitely... Definitely not retards.

[chaossystem]

I thought it stood for Retards Attempting Poetry.

...And I feel retarded for not having thought of that! I was TRYING to think of a creative way to say that rap does not deserve to be called poetry, so thank  and God bless you, sir!

[Outcrier]

...And I feel retarded

At least, you got one thing right.

[King Postwhore]

Dude, you need to stop that.  You will get banned.

[Rodni Demental]

Not trying to insult anybody but I remember the "retards attempting poetry" thing from my school days when people would pretenciously gang up on the styles of music that weren't "in" and thought it was quite funny. I don't agree with it wholeheartedly but it's kinda humorous. In the same sense that racial humor can be amusing so long as you don't take it too seriously..     

[chaossystem]

...And I feel retarded

At least, you got one thing right.

I think it's ironic that you call yourself "outcrier" when the ("Dramatic") song "Outcry" is about standing up for what you believe in, no matter the cost, and yet you disrespect me for doing that very thing. I've seen a lot of things on line making fun of Dream Theater, such as them being called "Cheese Theater" or a cartoon with them being made to look like characters from "South Park." If I was as easily offended as you are, I wouldn't be able to laugh or see the humor in any of those things.

[Outcrier]

I found amusing that, off all my posts in this thread, the only one you replied to was the least important.
Ah, i'm not offended, i just don't like when people say things about something they don't know at all.

[Zook]

Not sure the South Park thing was to make fun of the band. That was a fad several years ago, and everyone was South Parking everything.

[Stadler]

...And I feel retarded

At least, you got one thing right.

I think it's ironic that you call yourself "outcrier" when the ("Dramatic") song "Outcry" is about standing up for what you believe in, no matter the cost, and yet you disrespect me for doing that very thing. I've seen a lot of things on line making fun of Dream Theater, such as them being called "Cheese Theater" or a cartoon with them being made to look like characters from "South Park." If I was as easily offended as you are, I wouldn't be able to laugh or see the humor in any of those things.

Dude, I stayed out of this thread because it's largely dumb (hey, let's bash things we don't like!), but don't humiliate yourself and denigrate those that truly DID "stand up for what they believe in no matter the cost" by wrapping your ignorance in the metaphorical flag.   Calling something "retarded" is not "standing up for what you believe in".  Calling bands dumb, mocking names because you don't like them is not "standing up for what you believe in".    If you really feel that rap is not an art form, then give something of substance, something tangible, not perjoratives, name calling and (relative) ignorance.   Whether you like it or not, "rap" has been the outlet of choice, and therefore the chosen voice, of an entire generation (and no, that's not a reference to race), and has impacted music, art, movies, fashion, culture, even politics.   There's no questioning the bona fides of rap at this point. 

[chaossystem]

...And I feel retarded

At least, you got one thing right.

I think it's ironic that you call yourself "outcrier" when the ("Dramatic") song "Outcry" is about standing up for what you believe in, no matter the cost, and yet you disrespect me for doing that very thing. I've seen a lot of things on line making fun of Dream Theater, such as them being called "Cheese Theater" or a cartoon with them being made to look like characters from "South Park." If I was as easily offended as you are, I wouldn't be able to laugh or see the humor in any of those things.

Dude, I stayed out of this thread because it's largely dumb (hey, let's bash things we don't like!), but don't humiliate yourself and denigrate those that truly DID "stand up for what they believe in no matter the cost" by wrapping your ignorance in the metaphorical flag.   Calling something "retarded" is not "standing up for what you believe in".  Calling bands dumb, mocking names because you don't like them is not "standing up for what you believe in".    If you really feel that rap is not an art form, then give something of substance, something tangible, not perjoratives, name calling and (relative) ignorance.   Whether you like it or not, "rap" has been the outlet of choice, and therefore the chosen voice, of an entire generation (and no, that's not a reference to race), and has impacted music, art, movies, fashion, culture, even politics.   There's no questioning the bona fides of rap at this point.

First of all I never INTENDED for this thread to be all about "bashing things that we don't like" and where do you get this idea that I'm "wrapping myself in a flag?"
I'm not the one who came up with "retards attempting poetry" but yes, there is some MERIT to that acronym, and I (like a lot of other people) thought it was FUNNY! I have a lot of friends and family members who would agree with me on that as well, even some of the ones who LIKE rap! Do YOU have a sense of humor? Doesn't look like it "dude!"
I only called a few bands "dumb mocking names" at the very beginning, and I haven't done that since! And as I've already pointed out, there are those who do that to D.T, as well.
Also from my point of view, the impact of rap on our culture has been more negative than positive, such as the effect it's had on the way people speak and write, as well as the general change in attitude.
I started this thread to have a discussion about Dream Theater's influences and how we feel about them, but apparently you are one of TOO many people who can't seem to do that. Instead, you want to focus on the FEW negative things that I said, because you can't just let it go. Grow up!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I dunno about the South Park thing specifically, but it sounds like another homage to Rush, not an attempt to denigrate DT.