Biggest DT-related disappointment

[BlobVanDam]

What rhythms are those Blob? I've always been a big fan the drumming on IT, but then again, I'm a fan of MM's drumming in general.

I don't remember off the top of my head, so I'd have to listen back, but I know it was instrumental section stuff. The way he fits his drumming the the rest of the band just isn't really my preference.
My favourite drumming from MM in the song (and maybe even the album) is actually when he's just pounding out that simple 12/8 groove behind that badass metal riff.

[Mosh]

What rhythms are those Blob? I've always been a big fan the drumming on IT, but then again, I'm a fan of MM's drumming in general.

I don't remember off the top of my head, so I'd have to listen back, but I know it was instrumental section stuff. The way he fits his drumming the the rest of the band just isn't really my preference.
My favourite drumming from MM in the song (and maybe even the album) is actually when he's just pounding out that simple 12/8 groove behind that badass metal riff.

That's a favorite of mine too, and if he did more of that sort of thing I'd like his playing a lot more.

Mangini is like 30% of what makes Illumination Theory one of DT's best songs.  I can't imagine it working with MP's style of drumming.

It's one of his better performances for sure, can't say I was blown away with a lot of his playing on the rest of the album though. That's not to say he did a bad job, like I said it's a step up from ADTOE and if he keeps that up I expect some really killer performances in the future.

[MoraWintersoul]

I cannot fathom that there are people who think MP is more of a character than MM... have you ever listened to MM talk, or watched him play?

[Mosh]

Meh. They both have big personalities, I can see it going both ways.

[Grizz]

Watching MP make an ass of himself every few weeks with comments that are sensibly founded but maliciously executed.

[MarkFitDT]

Portnoy used to get stick for lacking feel and groove in the past - I remember a couple of instances reading in magazines circa I&W when other bands were reviewing songs and I cant give you a direct quote but one said words to the effect of how good a drummer he was but could he play a simple groove and that he was always overplaying. I think Blind Melon might have been involved but dont quote me!

Your example had to go back to IaW, the DT album with the triggered drums. That triggered approach takes all subtlety and feel out of playing (at least, in 1992 tech it did). It's also no surprise that MP hates the drums on that album.

At worst, MP's drumming was getting safe on BCASL, but SC doesn't deserve to be lumped in with that. Highly underrated drumming on that album, and I prefer it to any of MM's drumming with DT so far. I was hoping DT12 was going to be the album that MM wows me after having less input with ADTOE, but it mostly didn't impress me.

I used an example that I can remember, not a made up one. It doesnt mean that the point still doesnt stand. DT, as a whole, are perceived by a lot of non-fans as lacking "soul and feel" in their music and their playing and Portnoy was part of that. Whether you think that is right or wrong is your own opinion but that perception has and still does exist.

[Kotowboy]

I cannot fathom that there are people who think MP is more of a character than MM... have you ever listened to MM talk, or watched him play?

There are some MP fanboys that think that he is more technically skilled than MM.

A drum off would end that rumour.

[emtee]

We're at the point now where expectations need to meet up with realities. Enough time has passed for things to have settled in.
The guys in DT have obviously decided they just want to be more of a normal band now. Their real life schedules must not
allow them to commit the time to extra curricular 'goodies'. Whatever side of the equation you are on it's time to accept things
as they are and not for what they used to be or what you wished they were.

[Setlist Scotty]

[There are some MP fanboys that think that he is more technically skilled than MM.

I'd be curious for you to post some links/examples/posts of people who have made such a statement because I can't recall anyone ever saying so. Even MP himself has said that MM is a far more skilled drummer than he is, especially in terms of technicalities.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, that shouldn't be an issue.

[BlobVanDam]

Kotowboy, just recently you made a thread about playing fast and technical not being the be-all of music. I haven't seen anybody here dispute that MM is a more technical player (including MP himself, as Scotty has pointed out), but that has little to do with who one prefers the playing of. For me it's also about feel, and style, and musical choices, all that yummy subjective stuff we love to argue over.

Personally I find MM's technicality on DT12 to be too clinical and mathematical at times. Whether or not he can play at 300bpm with different rhythms for each limb is of no relevance to me unless it's making the music better, and for me it hasn't. And for others it does. Each to their own. Technicality isn't the sum total measure of a musician.

[King Postwhore]

If you listen to MM on the 3 songs he played on Extreme's "Waiting For The Punchline" you can hear a more organic style of playing.  I think drummers like MM play more technical when the music is more technical.

[Mosh]

I LOVE Mangini's playing on that Extreme album. It's my favorite album from them too. Mangini also toured in Nuno's band for awhile and was awesome. He played with a lot more groove and feel back then, it's almost as if he feels pressure to prove something being in a far more techincal band.

[Lucien]

We can only hope future albums will be better than the last.

[Madman Shepherd]

[There are some MP fanboys that think that he is more technically skilled than MM.

I'd be curious for you to post some links/examples/posts of people who have made such a statement because I can't recall anyone ever saying so. Even MP himself has said that MM is a far more skilled drummer than he is, especially in terms of technicalities.

I have heard/seen people say MP is better but its the internet.  If I cared enough I could find a handful of people that said they ate s'mores with Bigfoot. 

But I gotta say that is is bullshit that people just assume MM is a better drummer than MP.  I have said before, I think it is safe to assume that MM is more technically educated when it comes to drumming but how can one really say that have more musical knowledge translates to ability.  MP has done some wicked ass shit on some DT albums.  I got a few of his drumming DVDs in his clearance sale even though I'm not a drummer, and I was blown away by some of the stuff and thought he put into his performances. 

On that same token, I think its equally bullshit that people just assume MP is a better showman than MM.  Sure, MP seems to do more "things" to involve the audience but I think MM is at least equally as impressive and fun to watch. 

[Grizz]

[There are some MP fanboys that think that he is more technically skilled than MM.

I'd be curious for you to post some links/examples/posts of people who have made such a statement because I can't recall anyone ever saying so. Even MP himself has said that MM is a far more skilled drummer than he is, especially in terms of technicalities.

Usually you can find that sort of stuff in broken English in the comments of Youtube posts of the Score drum cams.

[Kotowboy]

Kotowboy, just recently you made a thread about playing fast and technical not being the be-all of music. I haven't seen anybody here dispute that MM is a more technical player (including MP himself, as Scotty has pointed out), but that has little to do with who one prefers the playing of. For me it's also about feel, and style, and musical choices, all that yummy subjective stuff we love to argue over.

Personally I find MM's technicality on DT12 to be too clinical and mathematical at times. Whether or not he can play at 300bpm with different rhythms for each limb is of no relevance to me unless it's making the music better, and for me it hasn't. And for others it does. Each to their own. Technicality isn't the sum total measure of a musician.

I'm not saying technical is better - just that some people prefer MP so much they'll ignore the obvious.

I was having a "discussion" online once with an MP fanboy who was adamant that MM being technically more skilled than MP was just an opinion.

I even said that MP himself said that MM is better and they still wouldn't have it !

The metaphor I thought of was giving someone a 6 string bass and saying ' this demonstrably has more strings than a 4 string bass'

and them going 'that's just your opinion'.

[detemete]

Probably the mastering of DT12.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Technicality isn't the sum total measure of a musician.

Yup

[chaossystem]

[There are some MP fanboys that think that he is more technically skilled than MM.

  If I cared enough I could find a handful of people that said they ate s'mores with Bigfoot. 

I once knew a guy who claimed he smoked POT with TED NUGENT! I'd be more inclined to believe the Bigfoot story.

[Kotowboy]

I was happy once

[Kotowboy]

Oh wait I won a Gibson SG with robot tuners on. Fuck Yeah 

[Miss Bangkok]

Definitely DT12. It's been a huge disappointment for me....I didn't like SC or BC&SL that much, and had basically given up on them, but when ADTOE was released it was a very pleasant surprise. I love that record, and had high hopes for DT12. I thought maybe they'd continue to "return to form", but then they turned around and released this commercial mainstream-ish album. Yesterday I was watching a new JP interview for guitar interactive magazine, and he said they made a conscious decision to write shorter, more concise songs, that would hopefully appeal to mainstream audiences. Am I the only person who thinks their recent Grammy nominations have affected their songwriting? Because it sure sounds like it to me. Back when they first streamed "The Enemy Inside" I literally sat there in disgust...I was angered and irritated by what I was hearing, and kept asking out loud "WHY?!? WHY?!?!". Anyway, we'll see if the next one is better, but for some reason I feel like they're going to keep slipping down the direction they're headed.

[bosk1]

I am generally one to stay out of matters of opinion and just let people have theirs, but I have to say that Scotty, you are WAY off base.

And yes, it is unrealistic to expect them to do EVERYTHING Portnoy did.  If doing those kinds of things were their things, they would have been doing them in the first place, like Petrucci answering questions from the fans or whatever.  Obviously, posting on his internet forum and/or social media is not really his thing, otherwise Petrucci would be doing it, not because he feels the need to fill the shoes of a former member, but because it was something he really wanted to do.  Forcing himself to do it just to do it would come off as disingenuous.

Then don't say you will. 

They didn't say they would.  Read Scotty's post a few below yours (or quoted below in this post).  They said nothing about how they would do EVERYTHING Portnoy did.

Precisely this.  Are they doing all of the exact same things now that Portnoy did during any 2 album span of time?  No.  But then again, if you take any given 2 album span during the time Portnoy was with the band and compare it to any other 2 album span during the Portnoy era, he wasn't doing all of the exact same things.  MAYBE if you do a one-to-one matchup of exactly what Portnoy did during a given 2 album span and compare it with what the rest of the band has done over the last two album stretch, you MIGHT find that they did a few less things.  But they are still doing quite a bit--definitely far above and beyond what most bands do for their fans.  A number of those things have already been pointed out.  And if you don't like them quite as much as some of the things Portnoy did, that's fine.  You are entitled to like what you like.  But to argue that the band hasn't stepped up is just plain wrong.  To add to what has already been posted:
-They did not one, but TWO live chats with the fans on this forum where WE essentially got to interview the band with our own questions and have the band speak to us in real time.  The history behind that is *I* approached John Petrucci with the idea, and he was instantly enthusiastic about doing it?  Why?  He thought it would be a great way to connect with the fans.  And then he and the band liked it so much that he and Wey decided to do it again a second time (and although I am not promising anything, we may have others in the future).
-We got the drummer documentary.  Some may not have liked the way it turned out, but the point is, they did it.
-We did indeed get in studio videos (not sure why it was said above that we have not gotten anything like that).
-We got a forum back on the official site (given, that flopped, but so did some things that Portnoy has done over the years--the point is, they are in fact doing things, even if some of them may not turn out great).
-We not only got a special performance in Boston, but are getting a live release from it (again, not sure why it was posted above that there are no more "special performances").
-We got evening-with shows back. 
-Unlike the Black Clouds tour, we have actually gotten headlining tours in DT's home country in support of their last two albums.
-We got the most ambitious video production the band has yet done for a tour.
-We have an intermission on the current tour that is made up mostly of fan videos (from a band that supposedly hasn't done much to be in touch with its fans since Portnoy left--gee, how does that work exactly?  )
-We have a member of the band who actively checks in with me to see how things are going on this forum, something that NEVER happened during Mr. Portnoy's tenure. 
-We have a member of the band who personally looked into one fan's customer service issues with one of the label's distribution outlets because the fan had a bad experience getting their order.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.  Qualitatively, you may not like what the band is doing nowadays.  That's cool.  But, yeah, it is just silly to argue that the band has somehow dropped the ball and is doing substantially less quantitatively than they used to.  They aren't doing exactly the same things, but they are doing a lot of things that are really quite similar. 

About the only thing Portnoy was doing that isn't really being done yet is the official bootlegs.  And that is legit.  But (1) as pointed out, Mike is holding the old stuff hostage, and there isn't a lot since then that they could release, so I think they get a pass for a little while; (2) they did give us the Christmas set for free, which covers the ADTOE tour quite nicely; (3) at the time Portnoy left, it had been well over 2 years since the last set, with no new ones on the horizon, so it isn't like he was even actively doing it either toward the end of his tenure.

[GentlemanofDread]

Wait somebody in DT checks up with you about the fourm? I suddenly feel giddy.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Great post, Bosk.

[Ravenfoul]

Wait somebody in DT checks up with you about the fourm? I suddenly feel giddy.

John Myung regularly checks in to make sure everyone's wearing their appointed black on black attire. Or that's the theory anyways.

[Grizz]

I heard John Myung personally bitched out the manager of the outlet that gave the fan customer service issues.

[Mosh]

Really? I heard he tackled him.

[KevShmev]

Well said, bosk1.

[Kotowboy]

That's all well and good but has anyone in DT dyed their beard blue ?

NO. 

[mikeyd23]

Great post Bosk! I agree the band has certainly done a lot of great things for the fans since MP's departure.  Like you said, they may not be exactly the same things MP did, but they are providing the fans with great extras regardless.

[Tomislav95]

Great post, indeed. But you forgot one big thing: Happy Holidays CD for FREE

[DreamerTV]

Great post, indeed. But you forgot one big thing: Happy Holidays CD for FREE

He didn't

Great post, Bosk.

[Tomislav95]

Great post, indeed. But you forgot one big thing: Happy Holidays CD for FREE

He didn't

Great post, Bosk.

Sorry, I haven't seen it on first read