ADTOE vs DT12 in terms of Mike Mangini

[batmura]

Hey everyone! New member, long-time lurker here.

Unlike ADTOE which I purchased on the day it was released, it took me quite a while to pick up DT12. Only recently have I started to give it more in-depth listens, but I'm still pretty much at the "digesting stage" at this point.

I was wondering if any of you are interested in sharing your ideas on DT's last two albums with Mangini in terms of his playing style and contribution. As we all know Mangini had little, if any, input on ADTOE, considering the album was pretty much ready when he stepped in. Even though I felt he'd done a great job, I was to curious to see how he would contribute to the new disc, both musically and technically.

What (subtle) differences can you recognize in Mangini's playing? Do you think he has influenced the direction of any of the songs? If so, which ones in what way? How do you like his sound and tone on the new disc compared to his debut work with the band?

Any thoughts are welcome.

[Sycsa]

Both albums display Mangini's amazing technical abilities quite well, but on DT12 he's way more up front, both mix-wise and regarding to songwriting as well. He had more space to shine individually, thus there are lots of pivotal drumming moments on DT12 which are missing from ADTOE. Right out of the gate, the beginning of The Enemy Inside has such a powerful shock value, carrying that "ZOMG, Mike is finally here" feeling, but I could also mention the Enigma Machine drum break or some of the parts in IT as examples of such moments. ADTOE isn't too shabby either, it doesn't have as many flashy moments, but the playing in general is just as technically demanding, if not more so, than on DT12. Unfortunately, many of the impressive stuff Mike does is buried in the mix. Sometimes I can't even hear the snare hits properly and it's supposed to be the loudest component of the kit.

I touched upon the drum sound topic not so long ago:

The next big -and anticipated- change in DT's drum sound would come with the arrival of Mike Mangini. Unfortunately, his drum sound on A Dramatic Turn of Events was underwhelming. While the tooone was OK, the drums were low in the mix and thin sounding (by DT standards, of course). The overall character of the sound, while noticeably different, was still reminiscent of the classic MP-DT sound, which many anticipated would change once MM gets full reign.

Which it did, as it became apparent with the release of Dream Theater. Like a large chunk of the fan base, I was a bit disappointed with the new sound as well at first, but it grew on me a lot since. One thing it has got going for it is that it's completely unique and defines the mood of the album, much like with Images & Words. Come to think of it, if I had to describe the drum sound, it's a bit like recreating the I&W sound acoustically (which, in return, makes the whole kit, including the toms, sound electric in a few places). One thing is for certain, this was DT12 exclusive, unique drum sound. It will indubitably change and I can't wait to experience the next step in its evolution.

[emtee]

He seems to be a really cool human being. Dedicated, appreciative, thankful and a master of his craft. Unfortunately, due to
sound quality I'm not fully able to appreciate what he has brought to DT. Hopefully DT13 will be a different story. One of the
most accomplished drummers in the world deserves his recorded performance(s) to be heard with clarity so you can fully
appreciate and understand his abilities.

[rumborak]

I was watching that drum cam video the other day, and for the first time I was truly able to appreciate his drumming. As said, his drum sound, especially on DT12, really holds back the ability to appreciate it.

[TAC]

I was watching that drum cam video the other day, and for the first time I was truly able to appreciate his drumming. As said, his drum sound, especially on DT12, really holds back the ability to appreciate it.

Which drum cam video is that?

[rumborak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_kDNZdE5is&feature=youtu.be

[TAC]

Thank you!

[Rodni Demental]

I haven't really had issues with the drum mix. I mean, the big thing is that it's not MP, which was generally a more 'booming' sound. But on ADTOE and DT12 the drumming impressed me both times, in fact those irritating opinions about the mix didn't really start floating around my head til I started hanging out around here. Not that I didn't notice, just that it's not what I would have focused on. My thoughts were mostly; it's different.

In fact, there's something unique, crisp and sharp about the drum mix on ADTOE. I know it's quiet, but other than that major flaw, there's an appeal that I can't describe fully. But it's part of what makes ADTOE what it is. So I like it the way that it is and wouldn't opt to change it or wish it were different.

Same with DT12. I love the toms and 'big' sound MM created this time and there's some amazing fills on this album. I think most of the issues that peoples have with the tuning come down to the mixing as opposed to the player.

Whatever people think of both albums, one thing's for sure is that both times MMs offered something vastly different, so that makes me really look forward to what happens next.

[George Eliot]

I'm no drum expert, but I have to say that MM's fill/solo towards the beginning of IT blew me out of the water.  For me, that is one of the greatest drum moments in the entire DT studio catalog.

[TAC]

I'm no drum expert, but I have to say that MM's fill/solo towards the beginning of IT blew me out of the water.  For me, that is one of the greatest drum moments in the entire DT studio catalog.

Some great drumming in IT. Especially through the entire first part.

[Siddhartha]

I´m not very fond of Mangini´s work in the albums. I miss Portnoy playing and sound a lot, which is not a surprise since he is my favorite drummer.

I really enjoy bits of Mangini´s work here and there, like  Breaking all Illusions in ADTOE and The Enemy Inside in DT12. Overall  I prefer his work on ADTOE. DT12 to me is the worst album of the band, I don´t like how it sounds at all.

On the other side I have enjoyed  all the 4 times I have seen him play live with the band, he sounds way better live than in the studio, and he is very funny on stage. But I hate that the band has decided to play with a click, and while I know it is not only Mangini decision I don´t think they would have ever done that with Portnoy.