Minneapolis 1994 - Best JLB performance ever?

[TAC]

Yes it is!

[MoraWintersoul]

I think I talked to Matt Guillory almost as long as I talked to JP that day. 

That sounds perfectly logical to me

[Rodni Demental]

One thing I've always considered, is what When Dream and Day Re-Unite would have sounded like with James going all in. He was clearly being a bit reserved that night (eg. no intense screams during The Killing Hand), less aggression and less raspy techniques. In some ways, I thought he replicated the melodies that Charlie was hitting spot on, but he didn't interpret the vocals in his own style like he did say, during the I&W tour. I get the feeling he listened to WDADU on repeat while he slept the night before and forgot about all the nice little touches he'd been adding over the years because there's definitely superior versions of all of those songs out there. 

I mean like OIAL, I feel like WDADrU should have been a complete classic instead of a novelty.

[Madman Shepherd]

One thing I've always considered, is what When Dream and Day Re-Unite would have sounded like with James going all in. He was clearly being a bit reserved that night (eg. no intense screams during The Killing Hand), less aggression and less raspy techniques. In some ways, I thought he replicated the melodies that Charlie was hitting spot on, but he didn't interpret the vocals in his own style like he did say, during the I&W tour. I get the feeling he listened to WDADU on repeat while he slept the night before and forgot about all the nice little touches he'd been adding over the years because there's definitely superior versions of all of those songs out there. 

I mean like OIAL, I feel like WDADrU should have been a complete classic instead of a novelty.

Pretty good description of that show and I agree for the most part. 

However, keep in mind that this show was after they already played for an hour and a half or so.  It was also right in the middle of their tour and it was a one off thing so nobody could get too comfortable with the songs. 

[Rodni Demental]

Yes, very fair point. Although it's unfortunate this is the excuse (even if also, a completely valid reason) for a couple of their live songs. The Mind Beside Itself Suite at the end of LSFNY and A Change of Seasons/Learning to Live from that same show suffer a similar fate, because they were 'worn out after playing a huge set'. I mean, fair enough, it'll happen if you're going for so long. How about we put ACOS in a slot, somewhere other than an encore next time? Then we might get the definitive live versions of these songs.

I think another example of this is Master of Puppets and Number of the Beast DT covers, which undoubtedly suffered the same fate as WDADrU, James was just worn out completely. He could have done both of these albums more justice as he has the pipes for it (even if his style might differ in various ways to Dickinson and Hetfield), but due to these "surprise sets" being near the end of a big show, it does seem to take a small toll on the released version of the performances.

[TAC]

I think another example of this is Master of Puppets and Number of the Beast DT covers,

Pretty sure the Beast vocals were re done in the studio, which actually makes it worse. Those albums were not good fits for him.

The 4/24/04 Osaka Boot has a much better version of them doing the Number Of The Beast album. Even Jordan is more engaged.

[hefdaddy42]

The 4/24/04 Osaka Boot has a much better version of them doing the Number Of The Beast album. Even Jordan is more engaged.

I agree with this.  That last note in Children of the Damned...

[wasteland]

I'm uploading Minneapolis for those interested, by the way. Is anyone still interested? It's a big amount of time, and if nobody is I'll gladly use my bandwidth for something else this weekend

[nikatapi]

I'm uploading Minneapolis for those interested, by the way. Is anyone still interested? It's a big amount of time, and if nobody is I'll gladly use my bandwidth for something else this weekend

Audio or video? I'm interested for sure!

[wasteland]

Video. It's the full bootleg where the OP video was taken from.

[Another_Won]

I would be interested too.  Thanks

[Ravenfoul]

I'm uploading Minneapolis for those interested, by the way. Is anyone still interested? It's a big amount of time, and if nobody is I'll gladly use my bandwidth for something else this weekend

Audio or video? I'm interested for sure!

I'm interested as well.

[wasteland]

There you go people! https://1drv.ms/S6Ptn4

[GentlemanofDread]

Thank you very much Mr Wasteland, Sir!

[Ravenfoul]

Much appreciated Wasteland   

[Rodni Demental]

Thank you!  THis is legendary. 

[Invisible]

Thanks a lot!!!

As for JLB vocals, I have a different opinion, it's not his voice that's "out of fashion", it's the melodies they make him sing. Whenever they attempt to do anything other that that metal style, James sound pretty good actually, more if they don't force him to go uber high.

And I also like the 90's image, I have to agree with rumborak on the images, it could be my dislike for the whole metal image that plays a huge factor, but I prefer most of them with short hair and less metal look except for JM, the only one who I think can pull it off. And the way they dress onstage is tiny a bit too streetwear also, but hey, it's not a big deal. Nothing beats them at the Grammys, that was weird.

[ytserush]

During Lie, you can see Derek smoking as he plays the keyboards.

Dream Theater was just cooler back in the day man.

The Derek phase was performance-wise one of the most enjoyable. Lava lamps, TVs on stage, then the occasional antics (Nightmare Cinema), and even acoustic sets. And Derek himself is coolness in person anyway.
Not that the current stage show is bad, but they lately rely a lot on video screens for their visuals. In the Derek days the stage had a lot going on.

Huge difference of opinion here. I almost threw in the towel on them in early '98. From the outside looking in, it just seemed like it was a matter of time (oops!) before the outside pressures did the band in.  I didn't like what they were becoming at all.
Always easier to say in hindsight, but Derek became the poster boy to all that went wrong then. At least he did to me. I think the performance standards took a hit in those years too.

Derek was/is completely cool in person though. No doubt about that. Met him several times during those years.

[Öxölklöfför]

There you go people! https://1drv.ms/S6Ptn4

Thanks a lot! But, I'm having trouble downloading it, it'll only download 257k. Probably because I'm on a Mac. Does anyone have an alernate download link that isn't hosted on Skydrive?

[rumborak]

During Lie, you can see Derek smoking as he plays the keyboards.

Dream Theater was just cooler back in the day man.

The Derek phase was performance-wise one of the most enjoyable. Lava lamps, TVs on stage, then the occasional antics (Nightmare Cinema), and even acoustic sets. And Derek himself is coolness in person anyway.
Not that the current stage show is bad, but they lately rely a lot on video screens for their visuals. In the Derek days the stage had a lot going on.

Huge difference of opinion here. I almost threw in the towel on them in early '98. From the outside looking in, it just seemed like it was a matter of time (oops!) before the outside pressures did the band in.  I didn't like what they were becoming at all.
Always easier to say in hindsight, but Derek became the poster boy to all that went wrong then. At least he did to me. I think the performance standards took a hit in those years too.

Derek was/is completely cool in person though. No doubt about that. Met him several times during those years.

Of course it all comes down to opinion in the end. I know a lot of people here see the switch to JR as an unequivocal trade up, but I think they chipped away at a thing they would never regain from there on: character. Derek infused the band with a lot of unique character (sound and personality I wise), and so did MP. There's no question that JR and MM are exceptionally skilled musicians, but I gotta be honest with you, those changes made DT more and more reliant on JP as the creative input. Like, MP obviously left his indelible mark on the DT sound, and Derek even supplied a full song on FII, one which I think is brilliant. And look at what he wrote later for Planet X.
These days there's maybe a drum full or a small piano break from JR and MM, but that's the extent of it really.

[TAC]

I'm with John on this one. The Derek years were so awkward. And while it didn't really have anything to do with Derek, I never understood them giving him permanent member status so quickly. Seemed like a hired gun, and a step down from KevMo.

[rumborak]

In what way was Derek a step down? Performance-wise he was a step up, because KM's stage performance usually meant lifting up the occasional edge of his keyboard. In terms of skill on the keyboard, I would say they're on par.
Composition-wise I agree with you, since KM provided ample music and lyrics. However, under that criterion, JR is a huge step down, since he neither writes lyrics, nor does he write songs.
I dunno, I have the suspicion that a good amount of the bad rep for Derek comes from MP. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Derek's rather unceremonious dismissal was because he wasn't willing to just be a "hired gun", whereas JR seems to have been fine with that status (Paul Northfield used exactly that term to describe JR during the SFAM time). I can totally see MP not liking to suddenly have to deal with 2 songwriters instead of the one he has a good handle on.

[rumborak]

In what way was Derek a step down? Performance-wise he was a step up, because KM's stage performance usually meant lifting up the occasional edge of his keyboard. In terms of skill on the keyboard, I would say they're on par.
Composition-wise I agree with you, since KM provided ample music and lyrics. However, under that criterion, JR is a huge step down, since he neither writes lyrics, nor does he write songs.
I dunno, I have the suspicion that a good amount of the bad rep for Derek comes from MP. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Derek's rather unceremonious dismissal was because he wasn't willing to just be a "hired gun", whereas JR seems to have been fine with that status (Paul Northfield used exactly that term to describe JR during the SFAM time). I can totally see MP not liking to suddenly have to deal with 2 songwriters instead of the one he has a good handle on.

[TAC]

Geez  Rumbo, you feel so strongly that you had to post twice!

To me, he just never fit. Maybe he was just as skilled as Kev. But he just felt like an outsider. He basically jumped from Alice Cooper's band to Dream Theater. Obviously I knew who he was and I guess I did question his chops at first. But once I heard ACOS, i knew he could play.

I saw DT 5 times with Derek, and he brought no more performance wise than Kevin did. Granted, he was not a permanent member for a couple of those shows, but still..

That whole FII era is strange. I never listen to any boots from that era. Like gawky pre teen years I guess. I don't dislike Derek. I just am not in love with that era. And I say "step down" because DT just seemed to be missing "something". Maybe they just lost their way and it had nothing to do with Derek, but I've always looked at the band in that period as having four and a half members. I don't know how to explain it, really. 

Let me also say that I think Derek handled his unceremonious dumping by  DT with exceptional grace. And I feel like it was good for him to be there with them during that tumultuous period, as he was already an established professional musician. Sometimes  i feel like his experience on the road and such is an extremely underrated  factor of DT coming out the other side of that era a stronger band.

[Ravenfoul]

I think Derek fit fantastically honestly. I feel if he was given more time with a couple more studio releases, more DT fans opinions would change. If you listen to him outside of DT, and after his stint with them - he really is an incredibly technically talented keyboardist. He sounded fantastic from what he was on IMO and I feel like he brought a lot to DT.

It's hard for me to 'pick' between DT's three keyboardists because they're all honestly amazing fits for the band. For different reasons.

[rumborak]

I think one aspect he brought to DT's live performances is to not take themselves too seriously. Nightmare Cinema was born, and also only existed, in that era.
I hate to compare DT to Rush, but what makes Rush's performances so great is that they make you feel as if you stepped into the Rush mancave where they're drinking beer, cracking jokes, and happen to have set up instruments that they then play on. I always thought that the Derek era was the only era where you got the idea that they're having a blast on stage.

[ReaPsTA]

With DS in the band, they became less progressive metal and more progressive hard rock.  I like a lot of what DT did that phase of their career, but abandoning the metal part of their identity would have ruined their careers.  I also sense, based on what the band's written, that it's not really what they wanted to do.

Even though JR doesn't really seem to listen to much metal, he's very much a prog keyboardist.  So you can graft him onto JP's guitars and get prog metal.  While DS seems to be a bigger fan of heavier music, it's hard to imagine him doing the straight metal (TGP) or straight prog (TITL) parts of DT's music.

It's hard to totally know what the band as a whole thought of the FII era.  MP hated it, but that's him.  MP hates the production on I&W, but JM mentioned in an interview that he really likes it.  So who knows.

But I suspect that, when they fired Derek and hired Jordan, the other members felt that the identity of the band was getting muddled.  For all that people (rightfully) praise KM, they forget that he was basically a prog keyboardist in DT.  I think they wanted another prog keyboardist to get back to their roots.

It clearly worked.

[TAC]

I think one aspect he brought to DT's live performances is to not take themselves too seriously. Nightmare Cinema was born, and also only existed, in that era.
I hate to compare DT to Rush, but what makes Rush's performances so great is that they make you feel as if you stepped into the Rush mancave where they're drinking beer, cracking jokes, and happen to have set up instruments that they then play on. I always thought that the Derek era was the only era where you got the idea that they're having a blast on stage.

The last time I saw them with Derek was the FIRST night of the FII tour in Providence. Up until that point, Nightmare Cinema had not reared its head. So my experience was that he seemed pretty serious, almost trying to keep up. I feel like Nightmare Cinema came about as the band just seemed to lose its grip and focus.

And Rush wasn't always like this.

[rumborak]

@Reapsta: I just have to ask, have you listened to Planet X? Compared to that stuff, DT plays mainstream prog. Derek can clearly rock it out based on what he did with Alice Cooper and Black Country Communion, but I would argue you see the true heart of a musician when you hear the stuff he writes himself. And what Derek wrote in his solo albums and with Planet X, it's so prog, to this day I don't understand parts of their songs rhythmically (whereas DT's rhythmical structures have actually gotten easier over the years).

[Ravenfoul]

@Reapsta: I just have to ask, have you listened to Planet X? Compared to that stuff, DT plays mainstream prog. Derek can clearly rock it out based on what he did with Alice Cooper and Black Country Communion, but I would argue you see the true heart of a musician when you hear the stuff he writes himself. And what Derek wrote in his solo albums and with Planet X, it's so prog, to this day I don't understand parts of their songs rhythmically (whereas DT's rhythmical structures have actually gotten easier over the years).

For realsies. He writes some crazy stuff, which is what baffles me when people say that his technical chops aren't good enough.

[TAC]

But he'll tell you that it was his time in DT that really opened that part of himself up, playing wise.

[Rodni Demental]

He might have had something to prove with Planet X and that sort of stuff after being essentially kicked out and replaced by another virtuoso player for musical reasons. He sure did prove that he would have been awesome and could have played an interesting role in an alternate universe DT line-up though. 

[BlobVanDam]

DS was a step down from KM at the time. DS fumbled a lot of the parts, and wasn't very good at replicating the sound of the studio tracks. KM was always super serious, but I think DS should have focused on nailing the parts before he started messing around on stage. JR manages to be the best of both worlds, being the best performance wise, and still having a lot of fun on stage. Best thing that ever happened to DT.

[rumborak]

While the above points are all correct, I can at the same time only dream what DS would have contributed music-wise to DT had he stayed, based on what he later did in Planet X.
Also, of the three keyboardists, he is my favorite in terms of solos. KM had good melodies for his solos but weak sounds, and JR's solos are, sorry, 90% total throwaway.

[ReaPsTA]

Rumbo, while I agree with the above posters that DS did Planet X partly as a reaction to leaving DT, it's definitely more prog metal than what he was writing in DT.