Your Favorite DT Live time period

[Cable]

So as I'm watching TGD off of Score (and duplicated on a YTSEJAM release), I thought about live time frames with the band.

Being subjective, and also witnessing them in my favorite time frame live, I will go with

ToT thru 8V

ToT was the first tour after the ultimatum to James, and he came out in great physical shape for the Escape from Studio co-headliner with Queensryche. Also his voice obviously came back to a level he liked. JLB seemed to have lost some fullness on his voice vs before IMO, but high notes were back.

This time frame, for better or for worse, is when the visual stage production was upped as I recall.

There was a certain energy to the band, I don't know how to explain it. Maybe JR settling in, maybe ToT material coming off well live, or something else. Even at the DT/Queenryche show, and Gigantour show, they were on it to me without the full stage production. And I have fond memories of JLB nailing Comfortably Numb, and JP getting the solo quite well.

[Sycsa]

Regrettably, no matter how good MM is and regardless of JLB's current form, I instantly have to disqualify the current period because of the click track and the triggered backing vocals. It doesn't matter that much though, I'm still incredibly psyched to see them this summer. Every period had its ups and downs, I couldn't pick a clear winner.

[Madman Shepherd]

Mangini era onward

[?]

I&W era would be an obvious answer, but I'm not completely sure. I mean, a certain keyboardist was still in the band, James hadn't had his accident yet and the two albums they had released up to that point are in my top 4, but James had the tendency to sing all the songs in an overscreechy way, there were no visual elements and I haven't heard enough material of the jams and stuff they played in those days to be able to give a fair judgement.

I think I have to give my vote to the Mangini era. I may be slightly biased, because I've only seen them on the current tour, but the bootlegs I've seen, LALP and the Holidays release have included nothing but solid performances, the setlists (especially the current one!) have been great and the new stage production is amazing. I don't mind the click tracks, backing tracks and static setlists, as a lot of my favorite bands use those.

[Daso]

Mangini era and then I&W days for me.

[son_ov_hades]

Images And Words era. Live At The Marquee, Live In Tokyo, the New York 93 official bootleg, fuck these recordings are transcendent! The Mangini era is second for me, and I'm psyched to be able to experience it. 

[hefdaddy42]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

[Setlist Scotty]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

This. Going to the show, you were almost guaranteed knowing the opening song (of the Evening With shows) but just about nothing else. Not only that, but a good number of the songs were changed up to varying degrees to freshen them up. So it doesn't take any guesswork as to why I saw them so many times during each of their American Evening With tour legs. These days, that's no longer the case.   

[Grizz]

there were no visual elements

Actually, the I&W tour featured a lighting designer nicknamed Poop, who did the best lighting show until at least Chaos in Motion. IMO, it was as good as PN09/BCSL2010 (at this point it's kind of like comparing jazz and classical) and AFTR is the first lighting show to actually surpass it in quality.

[RodrigoAltaf]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

This. Going to the show, you were almost guaranteed knowing the opening song (of the Evening With shows) but just about nothing else. Not only that, but a good number of the songs were changed up to varying degrees to freshen them up. So it doesn't take any guesswork as to why I saw them so many times during each of their American Evening With tour legs. These days, that's no longer the case.   

Agree 100%, and would include also the Scenes tour. I saw them two nights in a row in Japan in the 8VM tour and not a single song was played on both shows - I got 6 hours of them playing different songs!

[Invisible]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

Can't argue with that, even though I wasn't a fan back then.

It's a tough call actually... the '93 era has James in his top form and the band had all that spontaneity, but the performances were nowhere that tight. The Six Degrees-8VM had those setlist surprises and tight performances, but James wasn't very good at least the shows I heard and while some setlist seem great, some are just odd like "this song doesn't fit at all here but we have to rotate the setlist" syndrome which Score seems to suffer at some points(I love the show, but it could've been better if they played more classic predictable songs IMHO). These days the band is the tightest since we have the genie keeping everything together behind the kit, and the lack of rotation seem to benefit James, but it lacks the element of surprise. Hmmm... I can't decide

[BlobVanDam]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

Definitely that, and for overall band performance I'd narrow it down to ToT - 8V, when JLB was drastically improving.

[robwebster]

Everything from SDoIT to Dream Theater excelled on at least one front, including - if you count them together - SC and BCSL.

SDOIT to Octavarium sort of operate on a sliding scale. The setlists go from batshit on World Tourbulence to sensible-but-eclectic for the 20th Anniversary, and the performances (particularly JLB's) go from decent to incredible, Tourbulence to 20th Anniversary, so it's sort of whichever you prioritise. On the other side, ADToE is the best all-round show, and Luna Park is my favourite setlist ever, but the tour as a whole wasn't diverse, and they'd one-up their visual element two years on with Along for the Ride. Buuuut - while Along for the Ride is their best show, the setlist is both static and a bit specialist.

SC and BCSL didn't really excel on any of the above fronts, but one huge, huge thing in their favour - no seats! Not a problem if the seating's tiered, like the Hammersmith Apollo, but my view, last time DT were around, was terrible. As in --



Between the shoulders of giants. Standing gigs are both more fun, as an audience member, and they allow people to sort of drift to a place where they can see the stage. People tend to find the right place for them, whereas when you're seated, if you're stuck behind Lurch and Rondo Hatton, you're screwed. So, I think the shows either side of those tours were better, but for me the shows of SC and BCSL - of which I caught three - were, despite their iffier performances, reduced visuals and less exciting setlists, far easier to enjoy. Smaller venues helped, too: for me, this was the best.

[nikatapi]

I&W era for me. This is the definite DT lineup for me, and they were fresh and eager to become a legendary band. JLB slayed most of the time (even if he overdid it sometimes) and of course KM, besides his mistakes, was the one who defined the keyboardist's role in the band.

I just wish i would have seen them sometime during 1992, but i was 3 years old

[Rodni Demental]

Chaos in Motion tour had some pretty cool setlists and in fairness we shouldn't judge the whole tour by the DVD , we had a chunk of A Mind Beside itself with Erotomania/Voices a few times. They often played some of the best parts of Scenes (Overture 1928, Strange De ja vu, Home, The Spirit Carries On).

Also, revival of some odd niche songs that have had fairly low play counts by DT (Honor Thy Father, Blind Faith, Misunderstood, Scarred, Lines in the Sand). They were show casing Systematic Chaos which, regardless of what you think of the album, was the first and last time they played a lot of those songs live such as In The Presence of Enemies, Ministry of Lost Souls and Repentance.

Not to mention, how could we forget the few shows where they even played Images & Words in it's entirety for the anniversary. And then there's Also Sprach Zarathustra which is just win for an intro, and then we got Schmedley Wilcox, a medley of all the album closers, how epic is that? I definitely think MP put a huge amount of thought into the setlists.

[Cable]

The best set lists were between 6DOIT and 8VM.

This. Going to the show, you were almost guaranteed knowing the opening song (of the Evening With shows) but just about nothing else. Not only that, but a good number of the songs were changed up to varying degrees to freshen them up. So it doesn't take any guesswork as to why I saw them so many times during each of their American Evening With tour legs. These days, that's no longer the case.   

I totally forgot about this part too! I still kick myself for not going to the Detroit show on ToT tour (had tickets, long story), as they played all of ToT, trial of tears, and impromptu jammed on Another Day. They didn't play all of ToT at the Cleveland show I was at, and I have not heard the other two songs up to this point. Stuff like that does indeed not happen presently or before the Evening With, considering I heard ACOS at the Cleveland gig.

[Grizz]

I just wish i would have seen them sometime during 1992, but i was 3 years old

Me too, except I was -6.


I'm watching a boot of 2002's NYC performance. It seems to me that this would have been a cool era to see.

[goo-goo]

I love the FII era for some reason. Maybe because OIALT was my 2nd DT album (first was Images). Love the rawness of the live release. I would love to see the complete footage of the Paris show

[Infinite Cactus]

TOT - 8VM for overall quality, sets, etc. As far as my favorite era to listen to, probably 1997-1998. The Derek shows were a lot of fun and eclectic.

[PixelDream]

I like the Scenes live era the most, followed by 8VM/Score era.

[Sad Wings]

I just wish i would have seen them sometime during 1992, but i was 3 years old

Me too, except I was -6.


I'm watching a boot of 2002's NYC performance. It seems to me that this would have been a cool era to see.

Agreed.  The 6DOiT tour definitely had the best set lists.  The Along for the Ride tour gives it some decent competition though in spite of the lack of rotation.  Half of Awake plus Trial of Tears isn't something I thought they'd ever play regularly.

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance?  I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

[robwebster]

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance?  I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

Mike Mangini just prefers it, as far as I'm aware! I think it also helps them sync up the live visuals. I remember them desynchronising with the Dark Eternal Night animation quite a lot, and with the ambition of the current tour, it'd become a problem pretty much all the time. Loads of great visuals - Enigma Machine, natch, but there's also The Shattered Fortress which has a cracking film, right in the middle, Scarred looks beautiful, and Illumination Theory's animation is beyond glorious.

[Sycsa]

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance? I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

That's definitely not the case. Complex music with multiple time signature changes is actually harder to play with click than without. It's unforgiving and doesn't leave much room to mess up. I remember JP saying something along the lines of them being really excited about Mike being able to pull it off, because it helps them recreate the studio versions more faithfully (TBH, I don't know why he would want that, but I digress). With all the triggered backing vocals and videos, it's pretty much a necessity at this point. Mike also said that he's playing everything to a straight eight note beat.

[Rodni Demental]

People act like the click track is crutch of something. It's really not, it's just a matter of preference. We could argue the pros and cons (which we've surely done before  ) but something to be aware of is that it's debatably harder to play to a click than to have a loose, free flowing sound. ESPECIALLY in a band where all the members need their parts to be played as tightly with the rest of the band. I've played with some drummers where their 'natural groove' isn't as consistent as you'd expect (if you actually got them on a metronome) and they sound great by themselves, but you also have to learn to play in a group and get used to the other individuals 'clock' so to speak. But something feels off in the timing relative to my own (I'm willing to recognise that maybe it's me that doesn't match the drums?) Either way, you put people on a click that are used to feeling out the rhythm themselves and the click will make them prone to error, they'll be rushed or dragged along with it.

A couple of DTs few mistakes recently can presumably solely be blamed on the use of a click (this might belong in the DT live mistakes thread but the Dance of Eternity detour, Space Dye Vest jumping the gun on the last chorus, Pull Me Under second verse mistakes were all from members coming in at the wrong moment.) I just don't think people realise the confidence and pressure required to actually use a click, it's not like it's the easy way out. They do it because of the production involved in their shows now-a-days, and it always did suit their music because there are so many triggered samples, time signature changes and, they had the issue of needing to trigger backing vocals after MPs departure in the cases where James or especially John were too preoccupied to possibly be able to sing a vocal line that wasn't originally theirs nor within their range. If it works for DT to use this method to assist their presentation AND so long as it's comfortable for them, then, more power to them.

[robwebster]

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance? I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

That's definitely not the case. Complex music with multiple time signature changes is actually harder to play with click than without. It's unforgiving and doesn't leave much room to mess up. I remember JP saying something along the lines of them being really excited about Mike being able to pull it off, because it helps them recreate the studio versions more faithfully (TBH, I don't know why he would want that, but I digress). With all the triggered backing vocals and videos, it's pretty much a necessity at this point. Mike also said that he's playing everything to a straight eight note beat.

Agreed - if you screw up while you're playing freestyle, you're setting the pace, so you can incorporate it into the song, slow it down, work around it... and even start again, if necessary. If you get a little ahead of yourself while you're playing to a click, you've got to slow right back down if you want to synchronise with the track again - two mistakes for the price of one. The train keeps running, you're relinquishing your control over the pace, which means way more jeopardy, as a drummer. A tiny slip for a click-free drummer can become that much bigger. A beat in the wrong place will beget another, and another, and another.

I think a click track is one of those things that, on the surface, you think, "Oh, well that's a cop out, they've got a machine to do it for them," because it's like it's one less thing to worry about, but when you start to think about the actual process of using that click track, it's pretty much the opposite. You need to be properly tight to match your drumming a click track - especially with Dream Theater. There are advantages, but slip into the wrong time signature in Enigma Machine and watch everything fall apart!

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think it's a cop out to use a click at all, given all of the advantages that have been pointed out, my niggle with it is that it doesn't allow any spontaneity or feedback.
There are a couple of songs on LALP that feel like they're being held back by being played at studio tempos, and I feel like they fall a little flatter without pushing the tempos live.

Given the need of a click track for backing tracks and video sync, I wouldn't expect them to go back, but I think some fine tuning of the tempos on some songs would mostly sort it out.

[erwinrafael]

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance?  I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

It is hard to play to a click track. Heck, try playing AS A GROUP with just a simple metronome and it's really hard.

[adastra]

SDOIT era is my favourite   The best setlists!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I would like to see the interview where they discuss the use of the click track.  Do they just not think MM is experienced enough with their repertoire to lay down the rhythm without assistance?  I wonder how many other artists use them but don't publicize it.

It is hard to play to a click track. Heck, try playing AS A GROUP with just a simple metronome and it's really hard.

Thanks to the click track they're playing to they're able to do nice things like having videos entirely on sync and precise light shows. You let something go (in this case, the rawness and speed of the clickless performances of the MP era because, let's face it, the songs were played incredibly fast most of the time) and you get something in return. I'm extremely happy with the way DT are handling things live right now and I think there is nothing wrong with playing to a click track. They're still playing their asses off, but in time and without speeding most songs up just because (yes, The Glass Prison from Gigantour, I'm looking at you).

Hell, they look happier than ever on stage right now, and I can't see them going back to a rawer performance setup. Mangini's insane tempo-keeping is here to stay.

[Siddhartha]

All the years with Portnoy/Rudess.

[puppyonacid]

Vocally I'd go with the I&W period as well as score.

For the rest of the band I think there was something pretty special about the scenes tour. And they were tight as feck as well! The best set list I ever saw was when they came back for the second euro leg on the scenes tour. We basically got everything else from the Live Scenes show plus stuff from scenes as well. It was kinda like the best of Scenes, I&W and Awake - live; with ACOS for an encore. Man that was a sweet show.

1. Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper 
2. Overture 1928 
3. Strange Déjà Vu 
4. Fatal Tragedy 
5. The Mirror 
6. Another Day 
7. Home 
8. Erotomania 
9. Voices 
10. The Spirit Carries On 
11. Learning to Live 
Encore:
12. A Change of Seasons 

[puppyonacid]

I just wish i would have seen them sometime during 1992, but i was 3 years old

That makes me feel old :-|.

[Stef1]

I love the FII era for some reason. Maybe because OIALT was my 2nd DT album (first was Images). Love the rawness of the live release. I would love to see the complete footage of the Paris show

I agree with this, the Derek period live just seems to have a loose magic about it, they tried different things such as the Christmas acoustic gigs, we had Nightmare Cinema, and the band also tried solo spots for those who where willing, even James tried a solo at least once.
Add to this lava lamps, rugs and TV sets, who could want more?

[Dream Team]

Check out the Live in Tokyo DVD. The band was on fire with energy back then. And I'll even take the dated clothes over the "all black all the time" motif of the current era.

[TAC]

Those I&W shows were fantastic.

The current lineup has played some incredible shows. There's an energy from the stage that is contagious, click track or not. The performances have been incredible. And I consider the last two times seeing them as the two best.

But I look at the Train Of Thought tour as being one of the greatest tours of all time by any band. Oddly, I sat that tour out when they came to Boston. Like Scotty said, the set lists were incredible, and I've always said that those shows were Zeppelin-esque.