Not a Top 50, but only a Top 20 by erwinrafael, system theorist

[erwinrafael]

While I have joined the DT Forum some years ago, I have been really active here for only the past year or so. A lot of people have posted their Top 50 lists, and I enjoyed reading those because the lists have become some sort of a way for members to introduce themselves. Anyway, I will not do a Top 50 but only a Top 20. I generally like DT's entire discography but songs below my Top 20 are pretty much interchangeable for me so they are very hard to rank. This Top 20, however, are the songs that are really special to me. These songs represent what Dream Theater was, is, and could be. Dream Theater is my favorite non-Filipino band after the Beatles, and these songs represent the reason why this is so.

In the other lists, people mention about "cheating" when they combine songs. In my list, I will cheat. A lot. I have a lot of combined songs because I always listen to these songs together and they never made sense to me when listened to separately. Songs need to have a proper beginning and a proper ending. It does not mean that I treat SFAM as a whole song (LOL!), but I can not, for example, imagine Fatal Tragedy as a complete song without its "beginning," Through My Words. So I will cheat a lot because this is the only way these songs would make sense to me.

Anyway, here we go.

20  Under A Glass Moon - Catchy and memorable as hell. In just one listen, I already remembered the riffs and the basic drum parts.

19  Surrounded - Exquisite. Gave me the same feeling as hearing Queen's "Save Me." This became the blueprint of a good DT ballad.

18  The Spirit Carries On - JP's finest soloing moment. For years, it's only that element that made this song special to me. Then I watched a Youtube video of a Wembley Stadium performance in the ADTOE tour. That's when I finally GOT it. The outro became more powerful than the solo.

17  Surrender to Reason - Perfectly balanced song. Each member doing an amazing thing but not overpowering other members. John Myung's lyrics again hit the mark. And the instrumental section is so promising, that I can only hope they would do more of the same in future songs.

16  Caught in a Web - I listen to DT in the office with earphones. When this songs plays, people look at me because I end up drumming objects loudly. This is one of MP's masterpieces. When my officemates go home, that's when I also shout the lyrics like hell doing my JLB impersonation. Amazing infectious song.

15  A Change of Seasons - First listen to this song: THIS IS A DIFFERENT MONSTER.

14  Stream Of Consciousness - Studies showed that this improves performance better than Mozart's music. Tried it on myself when trying to beat deadlines, and it freaking works. All the time.

13  Blind Faith - Jordan Ruddess. No other explanation.

12  Trial of Tears - Lines in the Sand's lesser twin. Which means it's Top 20 material, not Top 10.

11  Overture 1928 / Strange déjà vu - This is just a pure joy to listen. I would never experience watching DT live, but if I did get to have that opportunity and this song gets played, I bet I would be smiling all throughout. I might even sing the guitar and keyboard melodies, like what those idiot audiences in the Youtube videos are doing. (You're ruining my listening epxerience, idiots!)

10  Octavarium - This continued the promise of "epic" started with ACOS. Never quite got there because the 5, 8 and 24 thing was a bit...forced (and led to, IMO, padding of some parts like the intro). But still an amazing song. The very bright spot in a period when I took a hiatus from listening to the band regularly because I did not like the direction their music was taking.

09  Metropolis Part 1 - The first song that made me think that this impulse buy by my friend from the record store is a band that is quite special. The song literally screams "We're freaking more amazing compared to those amateurs, motherfuckers!" And they are. I got tired of listening to this because of overplay, but it does not mean that the song has become any less special.

08  Hell's Kitchen / Lines in the Sand - Trial of Tears' better twin. Which means it's Top 10 materials, not just Top 20.

07  Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy - For some reason, this is the song that made me think of the Beatles when I listen to DT. That's a good thing.

06  The Mirror/Lie - Somebody here posted that Awake is an album that could only have been written by DT at that specific point of their life. It contained a youthful energy with a bit of of angry vibe that comes after releasing (and being asked to recreate) a classic album.  This song combo (again, I can not listen to one without the other) is the representation of that essence that made Awake the unique album that it is.

05  Lifting Shadows Off a Dream - An amazing show of restraint from talented musicians, who, despite their skill, never overplayed this song even when there are lots of opportunities to do so. The music captured the essence of John Myung's words, and we are rewarded with pure poetic magic.

04  Illumination Theory - Everything I have to say about this song, I have already said in the IT vs. TCoT thread. It's an epic song that is very well thought out. Once I got what DT was trying to do with IT, each section made perfect sense. Not a moment was wasted in telling the narrative of the song. Even the ambient section made sense. One of the things that made DT's music special is that the music did not only engage me emotionally, but intellectually as well. This is encapsulated in IT.

03  Misunderstood - This, for me, represented the future of DT. This pointed the direction their music would take if they would remain true to the concept of being progressive and pushing boundaries. This is the future. They never really went to that direction, unfortunately, but I still keep the faith that they would.

02  Breaking All Illusions - If Misunderstood was my vision of what I hope DT's future would be, BAI, on the other hand, is the summary of what DT's classic sound is for me. I heard this at the time when I took the hiatus. Hearing JP's amazing intro for the first time brought a smile to my face and made me say "they're back." That smile never left my face for some time after that first listen. BAI captured in a single song all the elements of what I consider a DT classic. It's DT making a statement that they still know what made their music great.

01  Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (full song) - This, for me, is the realization of the promise of the Dream Theater concept. When I first got exposed to their music, I have had the feeling that their music will take me to a place where other bands have not taken me. SDOIT was the song that took me to that place. Perfectly grand, ambitious, and high concept, while at the same time complemented with amazing but perfectly complementing musicality. I know they still have at least one SDOIT left in them. Looking forward to 2017.

[robwebster]

I'm not so bothered about Lifting Shadows off a Dream, but I love the rest of your top five. Mine would look precious little like it - I think Six Degrees only just made 50 last time I counted, and that was before their brilliant self-titled album came out - but I love all the things you pinpoint about all those songs. Misunderstood, in particular, is an absolute gem, and probably would indeed break my top ten. Illumination Theory - I'd actually put it the other way round. You said it didn't just engage you emotionally, but also intellectually. I don't think there's ever been any doubt that DT put out intellectual music, but their ability to emote is completely underplayed by everyone who has ever published a line about them, and that's to the media's shame. I think it's a great advert for that side of their game, it's sharp as a tack but also thoroughly sumptuous.

There's a sort of sum of its parts thing going on with Six Degrees, for me. I don't think it's cogent as a song, but I really dig it as a series of tracks that flow incredibly well together, and form a sort of modern rock symphony. So I love what they've done with it, and I think it is enhanced by its format and the story it tells, and it's unique at the same time as it's quintessential Dream Theater - but to me, it feels more like eight rather good songs, and that sort of brings it back down a bit when I try to evaluate it as a single discrete statement.* But it's golden. I do love it. As a disc (we can all agree it's a disc, right?) it feels the most complete of DT's catalogue, and that's a great compliment. I love me a bit of Six Degrees.

Breaking All Illusions is another one that probably wouldn't crack my top twenty, if I'm honest, but I love seeing it in other people's, and I love everything you've listed about it, and I think it's an absolutely fine choice. A wonderful track.

*This is an oversimplification of where I stand, for brevity. I think the truth is that it's both, and neither. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is absolutely one song... but Solitary Shell has verses, choruses, a solo, its own melodies and identity, they play it alone live, they tracked it separately so you can listen to it on its own if you want, they submitted it to radio stations as its own statement. Frankly I think the fans place far more importance on the terminology than anyone in the band ever has. Solitary Shell is a song and a track and a single and a movement, it's a story unto itself and plays into a much bigger one. Oh, it's all just music, really, innit?

[son_ov_hades]

I won't comment at length, as to not spoil my list. You're number 1 is different than mine, but I totally love Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence. Breaking All Illusions I had at 16, great song just not that great. Misunderstood is cool, but third best song it is not. Illumination Theory and Lifting Shadows Off A Dream are much higher than I had them, but great songs for sure. Not one song I dislike is on your list.  Oh and nothing from Black Clouds And Silver Linings or Systematic Chaos and only Stream Of Consciousness from Train Of Thought. But no When Dream And Day Unite 

[erwinrafael]

Misunderstood, in particular, is an absolute gem, and probably would indeed break my top ten. Illumination Theory - I'd actually put it the other way round. You said it didn't just engage you emotionally, but also intellectually. I don't think there's ever been any doubt that DT put out intellectual music, but their ability to emote is completely underplayed by everyone who has ever published a line about them, and that's to the media's shame. I think it's a great advert for that side of their game, it's sharp as a tack but also thoroughly sumptuous.

I love your metaphors. Sumptuous!

There's a sort of sum of its parts thing going on with Six Degrees, for me. I don't think it's cogent as a song, but I really dig it as a series of tracks that flow incredibly well together, and form a sort of modern rock symphony. So I love what they've done with it, and I think it is enhanced by its format and the story it tells, and it's unique at the same time as it's quintessential Dream Theater - but to me, it feels more like eight rather good songs, and that sort of brings it back down a bit when I try to evaluate it as a single discrete statement.* But it's golden. I do love it. As a disc (we can all agree it's a disc, right?) it feels the most complete of DT's catalogue, and that's a great compliment. I love me a bit of Six Degrees.

*This is an oversimplification of where I stand, for brevity. I think the truth is that it's both, and neither. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is absolutely one song... but Solitary Shell has verses, choruses, a solo, its own melodies and identity, they play it alone live, they tracked it separately so you can listen to it on its own if you want, they submitted it to radio stations as its own statement. Frankly I think the fans place far more importance on the terminology than anyone in the band ever has. Solitary Shell is a song and a track and a single and a movement, it's a story unto itself and plays into a much bigger one. Oh, it's all just music, really, innit?

Hahaha. I used to think this way too, but then when I listen to each song individually, it never felt like any of the songs have proper beginnings and endings. If the song was not meant to end yet, then I don't treat it like it has ended already.

Illumination Theory actually helped a lot in my understanding of SDOIT. When people complained that IT is not coherent, my mind went, "well, if they tracked the sections separately, people would just treat this like SDOIT. And then they would not complain of IT not being a coherent song." That's when my mind really saw SDOIT as just one song. Looking at it any other way would not do the song justice. It's like listening to the medley in Abbey Road. It really just will not work if you listen to the tracks separately. But when you listen to them as one song, what an amazing experience.

Solitary Shell does seem to have enough legs to stand on its own. But In would say that it does not have a proper ending. If it ended in an instrumental, it really won't work as well as it would if it dived into About to Crash (Reprise).

[erwinrafael]

Oh and nothing from Black Clouds And Silver Linings or Systematic Chaos and only Stream Of Consciousness from Train Of Thought.

When I did the list, I realized that I really associate Dream Theater with melodies. I love riffing, but it's not the same as a good melody. And those were quite lacking in the three albums you mentioned.

But no When Dream And Day Unite 

Well, I think it would mostly be Dominici's fault.  Would you like me to include Status Seeker? 

[son_ov_hades]

Oh and nothing from Black Clouds And Silver Linings or Systematic Chaos and only Stream Of Consciousness from Train Of Thought.

When I did the list, I realized that I really associate Dream Theater with melodies. I love riffing, but it's not the same as a good melody. And those were quite lacking in the three albums you mentioned.

But no When Dream And Day Unite 

Well, I think it would mostly be Dominici's fault.  Would you like me to include Status Seeker? 

Yeah those three albums are lacking in quality is how I'd put it  Not Status Seeker, but at least A Fortune In Lies or Ytse Jam.

[robwebster]

Hahaha. I used to think this way too, but then when I listen to each song individually, it never felt like any of the songs have proper beginnings and endings. If the song was not meant to end yet, then I don't treat it like it has ended already.

Illumination Theory actually helped a lot in my understanding of SDOIT. When people complained that IT is not coherent, my mind went, "well, if they tracked the sections separately, people would just treat this like SDOIT. And then they would not complain of IT not being a coherent song." That's when my mind really saw SDOIT as just one song. Looking at it any other way would not do the song justice. It's like listening to the medley in Abbey Road. It really just will not work if you listen to the tracks separately. But when you listen to them as one song, what an amazing experience.

Solitary Shell does seem to have enough legs to stand on its own. But In would say that it does not have a proper ending. If it ended in an instrumental, it really won't work as well as it would if it dived into About to Crash (Reprise).

You're absolutely right, and the transitions make it. The context adds a lot to each track, and the way Solitary Shell kicks into AtCR is brilliant. You know what I'd compare it to? Tenement Funster / Flick of the Wrist / Lily of the Valley. They're one "piece," but they're also individual songs. In fact, every movement of Six Degrees has its own chorus and verses, which isn't necessarily true of the Queen platter, so you could use that to argue from the other side - but it's the same thing, where they're sometimes indexed separately (Sheer Heart Attack, SDoIT) and sometimes together (BCSL, Score). If you can say Flick of the Wrist is its own song, you can definitely say War Inside My Head is its own thing too. It needs The Test on the album, but you could run it into In the Presence of Enemies just as well live, or end on a downbeat. Come to think of it, Test appeared on Greatest Hit, didn't it? There we go, it's one of 21 other "pretty cool songs!"

But, again! I don't think it's either-or. I think Six Degrees is both and neither a song / album. People get very particular about it, and I don't get why - it's just terminology! For me, I tend to process it more as a very cohesive and cleverly structured album than as a perhaps slightly de-focused song. But I don't think it's wrong to call it a song either, and I respect that that makes the piece sing in a completely different way. Likewise, I don't think any of your "cheats" are really cheating - Overture 1928 and Strange Deja Vu totally belong together! They flow brilliantly, they work apart but they're happiest together.

[Tom Bombadil]

Only songs I don't like on your list are Six Degrees, IT, Fatal Tragedy, and metropolis. That's a pretty good success rate. I love your placements of Misunderstood and LSOAD.

Great overall list!

[Bolsters]

Lifting Shadows always seems pretty underrated, so props for having that in the top 20.

[erwinrafael]

Lifting Shadows always struck me as the band members reading the lyrics first, what emotions does the lyrics communicate, and then thinking about the music that would fit the lyrics. Which is why the music is quite "economical" but really appropriate for the song.

[j]

Spectacular list, probably my favorite of the handful I've read.  Don't agree with all of it, but I feel like I share your overall sentiments, if that makes any sense.

-J

[Invisible]

Grrrreat list! Don't agree with some of your picks(I don't think there are two DT fans with the same Top 20) but I love your choices. I didn't think there was someone who loved Lifting Shadows more than I do, so props for that! It's an amazing song with every band member doing exactly what they had to do, no more and no less. JP's guitar + KM keys + Myung lyrics and beautiful melodies create something that's both haunting and incredibly beautiful at the same time, and the instrumental section is very well thought and developed.

Loved your comparison of Six Degrees and Illumination Theory, I thought the same thing, they are both great pieces with different sections that make for a greater whole, although I believe the former accomplished the whole better, while the other has better individual sections, if that makes sense.

There's a sort of sum of its parts thing going on with Six Degrees, for me. I don't think it's cogent as a song, but I really dig it as a series of tracks that flow incredibly well together, and form a sort of modern rock symphony. So I love what they've done with it, and I think it is enhanced by its format and the story it tells, and it's unique at the same time as it's quintessential Dream Theater - but to me, it feels more like eight rather good songs, and that sort of brings it back down a bit when I try to evaluate it as a single discrete statement.* But it's golden. I do love it. As a disc (we can all agree it's a disc, right?) it feels the most complete of DT's catalogue, and that's a great compliment. I love me a bit of Six Degrees.

I have to disagree just a little with the bolded part. Yes, if you consider it a song, maybe it loses cohesion, but as a piece it's greater than the sum of its parts and work incredibly well. There are repeated melodies and motifs all over the piece that makes it almost impossible for me to not think of it as a single unity, even if there are tracks that work quite well on their own, and sometimes even better than some tracks on Scenes From A Memory because of the lyrics.

[erwinrafael]

Loved your comparison of Six Degrees and Illumination Theory, I thought the same thing, they are both great pieces with different sections that make for a greater whole, although I believe the former accomplished the whole better, while the other has better individual sections, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that makes sense. Illumination Theory economized in words, although I think IT did make much more use of the music in telling the story than SDOIT does. The Embracing Circle does not have any words but it delivers its part of the narrative.

[Outcrier]

The only ones that i disagree is BAI and IT (specially this high) but it's just 2 of 20 songs so, great list 

[hefdaddy42]

Your Top 20 bears some resemblance to mine, but the lack of Learning To Live is disturbing.

Nevertheless, great job!

[erwinrafael]

Your Top 20 bears some resemblance to mine, but the lack of Learning To Live is disturbing.

Nevertheless, great job!

Learning to Live never really clicked with me. I understand why people love it. But to my ears it really sounds dated. The keyboards have a 1980s sound that did not really age well, the opening guitar riff (the DYAN DYAN DYAN DYAN DYAN DYAN DYAN...) did not appeal to me, and it was the first song that I felt Portnoy drummed too loudly so much so that it distracted from what the other instruments were doing. Very nice lyrics and bass work by Myung, though.