That one TICK in Ministry of Lost Souls

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

Ministry of Lost Souls is pretty much my favorite Dream Theater song ever written.  It ended up that way after I went through a break up, and then listening to the song like four hundred times while driving up and down California Highway One, which winds up the coast of California directly next to the Pacific Ocean between San Simeon and Carmel.  Highway One is ninety miles of what amounts to one of the most beautiful places on the planet. 

With the story of MoLS, the beauty of the ocean, and the pure heart break involved I fell in love with the song. I did nothing for like a month but haunt tiny beach towns and listen to that damn song, pretty much torturing myself, because I am an idiot.   As I listened to it over, and over again I kept hearing this one tick in the drum track that seems to have no place in the song.  It doesn't start a pattern.  It doesn't end a pattern.  It's just... there.  Tick.  It sounds like the sound of closing a high hat, or a cabasa. 

The first couple of dozen times I didn't hear it.  Then after about play fifty plays, I noticed it.  Tick.  One day, I stopped, rewound the CD over and over with the stereo on full blast and there it was, every time.  At first I rationalized it as it was most likely an intended placing because how could there possibly be something like that, a rogue note, in a Dream Theater recording.  Now, many years later I hear it every time I listen to the song.  Tick.

Then, I met Jordan.  I'd known him for about a week when I finally broke down, after like four years wondering about that one note, and said, "Hey man, just one time I have a fan question.  It's been driving me nuts for years."  Then, I sent a copy of Ministry of Lost Souls from YouTube, and pointed out exactly where it was.  He replied,"I hear it!!"  I said, "Please explain that tick to me.  What is it?!"  He said, "I have no idea!  That's the first time I've ever heard that!!"

So the mystery lives on.  Tick.

Right almost exactly when it switches from 6:44 to 6:45 on the "and" of three in the measure. 

[BlobVanDam]

I hear it. Not a tick, but as you said, like a hihat or something. My guess would be that it's a punch in point on the drum track where it's switched from one take to another, and that's the leftover from a cymbal hit before the cut, which would explain why it's perfectly on that syncopated beat, but seemingly not part of the drum track.

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

I hear it. Not a tick, but as you said, like a hihat or something. My guess would be that it's a punch in point on the drum track where it's switched from one take to another, and that's the leftover from a cymbal hit before the cut, which would explain why it's perfectly on that syncopated beat, but seemingly not part of the drum track.

If it's a punch point it's in a strange place, right in the middle of a drum fill, on an and. Still my favorite song, by far.   

[Kotowboy]

I noticed a really obvious edit in a TOT song but can't remember which or where.

I'll have to find it

[Setlist Scotty]

Good catch! I agree with the idea that MP probably punched in that section. Or perhaps he did a couple of takes, and it was at that point that they wanted to switch takes. Makes the most sense to me.

[Kotowboy]

3:34 in Stream Of Consciousness sounds like an obvious edit - where the lead guitar kicks in .

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

Good catch! I agree with the idea that MP probably punched in that section. Or perhaps he did a couple of takes, and it was at that point that they wanted to switch takes. Makes the most sense to me.

A.  I've thought of it possibly being a punch point before but when I think of it from an engineering perspective I'm thinking if I was editing that album that if there was such a glaring punch I would be aware of it.  I probably would try to split the audio file on that track, and then add a small cross fade to the split to create a valley for that one spot so that it was at least less prevalent in the mix, or find a way to bury it. 

B. I found some video of MP playing the track, but his high hats are on the other side of him, so you really can't see that well but maybe it's a down stroke on the high hat after the crash, or maybe his foot hit the pedal a little bit and the take was too good to blow on something like that, but even then... see A.

I had years to think about this. What the hell have I been doing with my life? 

[phentalmyst]

sounds like a foot pedal hihat sound. it also happens at 6:48, 6:50 and 6:52 of your original post.

[TAC]

sounds like a foot pedal hihat sound. it also happens at 6:48, 6:50 and 6:52 of your original post.

That's what I thought.

[TAC]

I noticed a really obvious edit in a TOT song but can't remember which or where.

ToT has such a cut/paste feel to it. To me, the album lacks life. I think the songs are fantastic, and I always love the Budokan or Bootleg versions. I hardy ever listen to the studio album.

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

sounds like a foot pedal hihat sound. it also happens at 6:48, 6:50 and 6:52 of your original post.

It pops up a couple of times over the next couple of measure until there is an actual noticeable opening of the high hat the last time.  Maybe that tick was him putting his foot on the high hat pedal to get ready for that part, or he could have been tapping little grace notes by tapping his foot on the high hat pedal.  It's one of those things where unless you can actually ask someone you will never know what it is. 

I had always thought, "Well, maybe I should just ask them."  It was funny when I asked Jordan because I thought I had finally found a source for a definitive answer.  I felt like I was about to solve some kind of outer space Rubix Cube, or finally see inside TMA-2,  and he was just like no idea dude 

[ariich]

Please refrain from posting links to youtube vids of official material unless they come from official DT channels. I had to delete some links from your posts.

On topic - I hate things like that. When I notice them, they bother me a disproportionate amount.

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

Please refrain from posting links to youtube vids of official material unless they come from official DT channels. I had to delete some links from your posts.

On topic - I hate things like that. When I notice them, they bother me a disproportionate amount.

Sorry.  There isn't really an official video for Ministry of Lost Souls, though.  I've put some time into thinking about making one, taking the song and turning it into a short film of some sort, something experimental, to be filmed on California Highway One, in May, nothing set in stone, but maybe, if the planets line up correctly. 

[phentalmyst]

plenty of drummers (including myself) use the foot pedal of a hi-hat as a time/momentum keeper during a song. it also adds a nice whooshing effect sometimes. dave abbruzzese from pearl jam brought this to my attention back in the day...

check 1:03 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqvfGFuKSo

[Mebert78]

Ministry of Lost Souls is pretty much my favorite Dream Theater song ever written.  It ended up that way after I went through a break up, and then listening to the song like four hundred times while driving up and down California Highway One, which winds up the coast of California directly next to the Pacific Ocean between San Simeon and Carmel.  Highway One is ninety miles of what amounts to one of the most beautiful places on the planet. 

That's so great that the song touched you so deeply and helped you.  For me, it was "Bridges in the Sky."  I had an emotionally rough end to 2011 and I played that song in my car constantly after ADTOE came out, just absorbing the uplifting words and singing the lyrics as loud as I could.  I now feel a deep attachment to it.

[KevShmev]

I never would have noticed that without reading about it.

Fortunately, I almost never listen to this song, so it won't bother me.

[bosk1]

I never would have noticed that without reading about it.

Fortunately, I almost never listen to this song, so it won't bother me.

So much this.

[jakepriest]

I've actually heard that before and still think it's just Portnoy playing the hi-hat with his foot.

[Kotowboy]

You can hear a hi hat pedal  being pressed milliseconds before the whole band kicks in on " These Walls ".



I like noticing bands speaking at the end of songs and having to crank the volume to hear what is said.

Presidents of the USA record completely live so their albums are full of moments like that

[jakepriest]

You can hear a hi hat pedal  being pressed milliseconds before the whole band kicks in on " These Walls ".

I always thought that was intentional. It's pretty hard to miss. It's quite precisely on the off-beat too.

[Kotowboy]

You can hear a hi hat pedal  being pressed milliseconds before the whole band kicks in on " These Walls ".

I always thought that was intentional. It's pretty hard to miss. It's quite precisely on the off-beat too.

Oh it's clearly intentional. Just pointing it out.

[?]

I never would have noticed that without reading about it.

Fortunately, I almost never listen to this song, so it won't bother me.

FTFM

[Rodni Demental]

Isn't there a fairly inexplicable beep somewhere in On the Backs of Angels? I can't remember where it was and I'm glad because it slightly bothered me but there definitely something weird for a half second. Sorry to bring it up to those who do remember..  Normally stuff like this doesn't bother me because as a mixer myself, I know how many secrets tend to get buried from the raw recordings but when you're dealing with takes as tight as DTs sometimes these things stand out more than usual.

[ReaPsTA]

Interesting.  I always figured MP just played a pedal hat there for whatever reason because he improvised his fills.  What's crazier is that Jordan never heard it.

BTW, I also think it's a great song.  Glad it's mattered to you.

[BlobVanDam]

Isn't there a fairly inexplicable beep somewhere in On the Backs of Angels? I can't remember where it was and I'm glad because it slightly bothered me but there definitely something weird for a half second. Sorry to bring it up to those who do remember..  Normally stuff like this doesn't bother me because as a mixer myself, I know how many secrets tend to get buried from the raw recordings but when you're dealing with takes as tight as DTs sometimes these things stand out more than usual.

ADTOE has several little editing mistakes like that, like random pops and clicks. Very rough production all round.

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

Ministry of Lost Souls is pretty much my favorite Dream Theater song ever written.  It ended up that way after I went through a break up, and then listening to the song like four hundred times while driving up and down California Highway One, which winds up the coast of California directly next to the Pacific Ocean between San Simeon and Carmel.  Highway One is ninety miles of what amounts to one of the most beautiful places on the planet. 

That's so great that the song touched you so deeply and helped you.  For me, it was "Bridges in the Sky."  I had an emotionally rough end to 2011 and I played that song in my car constantly after ADTOE came out, just absorbing the uplifting words and singing the lyrics as loud as I could.  I now feel a deep attachment to it.

Music is a very powerful force in all of our lives.   My brain goes five hundred miles an hour.  Dream Theater, in particular, is pretty much the only band I have ever heard that can write music that completely occupy my mind.  This song is one their songs that also occupies my heart.  It's a musical masterpiece.