Groovy DT songs

[Captain Reddot]

I logged onto facebook the other day, only to find this message from a drummer friend of mine:

''I've sort of realised why I haven't been able to get into DT. And don't hate me for saying this, but it's because they have no groove, they have a few tiny bits but not enough''

He's massively into Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Tool - I've never understood why he didn't get Dream Theater. Nevertheless, I sent him a link to Take The Time, which got a pretty neutral reaction, to be honest.

What should I spam his inbox with, to defend my favourite band and prove that they DO have groove?

[adastra]

Just Let Me Breathe!!!   you can't get more groovy than that!

[BlobVanDam]

DT have no groove but PT does? Does not compute.

I really don't know what he considers groove to be, but I'd go with Lines in the Sand maybe? Beyond this Life? The Root of All Evil? A Nightmare to Remember?

Just throw in The Glass Prison, because any metal fan should dig that song.

[GasparXR]

DT have no groove but PT does? Does not compute.

I really don't know what he considers groove to be, but I'd go with Lines in the Sand maybe? Beyond this Life? The Root of All Evil? A Nightmare to Remember?

Just throw in The Glass Prison, because any metal fan should dig that song.

I agree with all of those you said. I'd also throw in Take the Time and Strange Deja Vu.

[BlobVanDam]

DT have no groove but PT does? Does not compute.

I really don't know what he considers groove to be, but I'd go with Lines in the Sand maybe? Beyond this Life? The Root of All Evil? A Nightmare to Remember?

Just throw in The Glass Prison, because any metal fan should dig that song.

I agree with all of those you said. I'd also throw in Take the Time and Strange Deja Vu.

I didn't mention Take The Time only because Captain Reddot said he'd already tried that one, otherwise that would have been one of my first choices too! I almost said Strange Deja Vu, largely for that awesome middle riff, but the rest of the song not as much. Maybe go with the Live Scenes from New York version for that, where it really comes to life.

[puppyonacid]

Some LTE stuff also maybe?

Acid rain, Biaxident, When the Water Breaks (that 6/8 mid section with the John Lordy Hammond solo has much grooves!)

It's not the DT has no groove - it's just that at that point where they nail a groove down the music often shifts.

[The Stray Seed]

=D He's just clearly not in the right mindset to appreciate DT. Take The Time is like 1000 times more groovy than anything Porcupine Tree has done, ever. So, I think you're wasting your time man. Maybe one day sooner or later, thanks to what we call "the shuffle effect" he will casually hear TTT again and find out what he was missing. And... he will kick himself really hard that day.

EDIT: there might be another reason: he may just not have a clue of what "groove" actually means.

[puppyonacid]

Take The Time is like 1000 times more groovy than anything Porcupine Tree has done, ever.

In your opinion

[The Stray Seed]

Take The Time is like 1000 times more groovy than anything Porcupine Tree has done, ever.

In your opinion

Well, I usually say "IMO", and I beg you pardon cause I failed to type it this time. But actually, this time I do think it's more than a subjective opinion. xD Anyway, sorry =)

[puppyonacid]

No need to apologise! I didn't mean it to come across as confrontational. I just happen to disagree.

There's a few songs on Deadwing alone that have nice groove sections.

Check this out for PT groove:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zb9qljqMtg

The difference is that PT hold on to a groove for much longer. There have been times I've been listening to DT and you'll hear a stellar riff whizz by that they might use once or twice and I'll be thinking "Why didn't the make that riff in to a song??!!"

[GasparXR]

No need to apologise! I didn't mean it to come across as confrontational. I just happen to disagree.

There's a few songs on Deadwing alone that have nice groove sections.

Check this out for PT groove:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zb9qljqMtg

The difference is that PT hold on to a groove for much longer. There have been times I've been listening to DT and you'll hear a stellar riff whizz by that they might use once or twice and I'll be thinking "Why didn't the make that riff in to a song??!!"

Interestingly enough, Lie was made that way (out of parts that were originally part of, surprise, The Mirror) and I don't recall any other DT song being written that way. Oh wait! I remember JP saying that parts of The Bigger Picture were written with parts of The Enemy Inside, but they separated the parts because they had completely different moods to them, and they were aiming for conciseness on the album.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

DT have no groove but PT does? Does not compute.

I really don't know what he considers groove to be, but I'd go with Lines in the Sand maybe? Beyond this Life? The Root of All Evil? A Nightmare to Remember?

Just throw in The Glass Prison, because any metal fan should dig that song.

Colin Edwin and Gavin Harrison, dude.

[a51502112]

I'd say "New Millenium" is pretty groovy.

[Daso]

There's some quite groovy parts in Illumination Theory. Peruvian Skies also comes to mind.

[jakepriest]

If someone showed me Take The Time to try and get me into DT I wouldn't like the band either. 

[lithium112]

He's massively into Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Tool - I've never understood why he didn't get Dream Theater.

DT has a fundamentally different songwriting style than any of the bands you mentioned above. They all tend to have lengthy sections where they iterate over a theme to create mood and atmosphere, often riding the same riff for a while to settle the listener into the headspace of the song. DT, on the other hand, tend to switch up the mood/feel of subsequent song sections/riffs pretty quickly. So while some sections can be individually groovy, the song overall doesn't produce that impression.

Off the top of my head, the best songs I can think of from the DT catalogue that your friend might like are The Mirror, Peruvian Skies, Finally Free, Honor Thy Father (maybe), Repentance... maybe a few others.

[GasparXR]

He's massively into Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Tool - I've never understood why he didn't get Dream Theater.

DT has a fundamentally different songwriting style than any of the bands you mentioned above. They all tend to have lengthy sections where they iterate over a theme to create mood and atmosphere, often riding the same riff for a while to settle the listener into the headspace of the song. DT, on the other hand, tend to switch up the mood/feel of subsequent song sections/riffs pretty quickly. So while some sections can be individually groovy, the song overall doesn't produce that impression.

Off the top of my head, the best songs I can think of from the DT catalogue that your friend might like are The Mirror, Peruvian Skies, Finally Free, Honor Thy Father (maybe), Repentance... maybe a few others.

I might throw Home and The Great Debate in there as well.

[Crow]

6:00 and LitS plz
Especially 6:00
Like literally the most fun song ever

[Captain Reddot]

Thanks for the suggestions He's actually coming with me to see DT live when they play Wembley, so that'll probably help a lot with the conversion.

He's massively into Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Tool - I've never understood why he didn't get Dream Theater.

DT has a fundamentally different songwriting style than any of the bands you mentioned above. They all tend to have lengthy sections where they iterate over a theme to create mood and atmosphere, often riding the same riff for a while to settle the listener into the headspace of the song. DT, on the other hand, tend to switch up the mood/feel of subsequent song sections/riffs pretty quickly. So while some sections can be individually groovy, the song overall doesn't produce that impression.

Off the top of my head, the best songs I can think of from the DT catalogue that your friend might like are The Mirror, Peruvian Skies, Finally Free, Honor Thy Father (maybe), Repentance... maybe a few others.

Yeah, I reckon that's probably it. He says there's elements of groove in their music, but it tends to come and go, and it never stays in one place for long. I played him The Mirror earlier, as we were talking about djent, and I was like ''DT do a bit of that!'' 

[Tom Bombadil]

Honestly, I don't think many DT songs have a lot of groove, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[RoeDent]

To me, groove means basically you can dance to it. In which case, Prophets of War wins. The most danceable DT song (and I mean genuinely. I know there's The Dance of Eternity, but you'd break your bones trying to dance to that.)

There's also that short bass/drums bit in the instrumental break of Breaking All Illusions.

[jonnybaxy]

When I think of groove, I think funky, more like held back and off-beats, such as porcupine tree's the sound of muzak,

So as a drummer I'd recommend
under a glass moon
Hell's kitchen
And New millennium

[ErHaO]

A few of the songs with a nice "groove" to me:

Lie
6:00
Beyond This Life
Strange deja-vù (especially past the 2:30 mark)
The Glass Prison
Constant Motion
Significant parts of Illumination Theory

But yeah, it is probably a very subjective term.

[philippaopao]

IT's "HATE-DI-VI-DING-US-LOVE-RE-MIN-DING-US"  until "capturing it all" sections are insanely groovy for me.

[Outcrier]

Fatal Tragedy instrumental (f*ck the groove, headbang to that  ) 

[PixelDream]

Trail of Tears has great drum and bass grooves.

[AngelBack]

As a drummer I don't think any DT song really exhibits "groove" in the sense I see it.  Besides, all "groove" died in Jeff Porcaro's garden.

[Laughingplace56]

Illumination Theory. Bass and drum groove. Beginning of The Pursuit of Truth.

That's all you need.

But, if you need more:
LSOAD
Scarred
CIAW
6:00
Just Let Me Breathe
ITNOG
As I Am
The Root of All Evil
The Dark Eternal Night
LNF
BitS
Enigma Machine
Main riff of TEI

those aren't all of them either. Just the ones that i thought of off the top of my head.

[Lucidity]

New Millenium has to be the goddamn grooviest thing DT have played. Also, the little bass break in SoC comes to mind.

[Shade]

As previous guys have said, DT don't do songwriting where one riff sits there for minutes on end, so if that's your friends definition of groove, he won't find it in DT.

Having said that I'd struggle believe anyone who says TTT has no "groove" to it, nor 6:00. Also I believe the initial verse of BAI with JMs fun bass riff is pretty sweet groove.