Another misleading blabbermouth article...

[jonnybaxy]

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-mike-mangini-has-certain-skills-that-mike-portnoy-does-not/

So if you look at the comments JR commented about how they basically twisted his words.

Blabbermouth sucks.

[Sycsa]

I wouldn't fly off the handle because of that one. Kinda annoying that they put that in the headline, but his words weren't twisted and it's still a pretty tame comment. I don't see JR's comment BTW.

[rumborak]

How's choosing a certain passage of an interview as the headline "twisting it"? It seems JR said that quote verbatim.

[jonnybaxy]

His comment is a reply to Jack Robb's comment.

And it's not so much twisting but rather interpreting the words in an 'jab' kind of way.

[Ravenfoul]

JR just seems like one of those sweet kinds of people honestly, from my point of view. Even if you take it as it is, obviously he's not really meaning to diss Portnoy.

[jonnybaxy]

JR just seems like one of those sweet kinds of people honestly, from my point of view. Even if you take it as it is, obviously he's not really meaning to diss Portnoy.

Yeah but I'm saying they seem to make it look that way with the title.

[gentaishinigami]

To use the beloved marriage analogies, he pretty much said the new wife has a few new tricks that the old wife didn't.  He better say that or new wife might get pissed (only half serious!)  Saying your old wife was better than your new is never a good idea!

[Ravenfoul]

JR just seems like one of those sweet kinds of people honestly, from my point of view. Even if you take it as it is, obviously he's not really meaning to diss Portnoy.

Yeah but I'm saying they seem to make it look that way with the title.

Yeah, this is nothing new with them though. Unfortunately.

[rumborak]

His comment is a reply to Jack Robb's comment.

And it's not so much twisting but rather interpreting the words in an 'jab' kind of way.

They're a news website, they need people to read their articles to make a living. JR gave them a convenient snippet, and they used it. You can bet how many people would read the article if the headline was "Rudess says both drummers are good in their own way".

[jonnybaxy]

His comment is a reply to Jack Robb's comment.

And it's not so much twisting but rather interpreting the words in an 'jab' kind of way.

They're a news website, they need people to read their articles to make a living. JR gave them a convenient snippet, and they used it. You can bet how many people would read the article if the headline was "Rudess says both drummers are good in their own way".

It's a DT article, only us DT fans will read it, and we don't care how they phrase the title!

[Zook]

This article is from October.

[jonnybaxy]

Oh well, I've only just seen it

[BlobVanDam]

Typical Blabbermouth desperate to creating drama.

[Kotowboy]

I had this discussion earlier last year.

I was trying to convince an MP fan that me saying that MM has far greater technical ability isn't just " my opinion ".

They couldn't get their head around it. I wasn't even saying that MM is *better* because of it - just that he can demonstrably do things that MP can not.

To me - it's a bit like showing someone a 6 string bass and saying " this has more strings than a 4 string bass "

and them replying " in your opinion ".

[jonnybaxy]

I'm a MP fan, but MM is more of a technical player, that much is clear, but technical ability is nit what makes a good musician, it's only part.

Anyway I'm not going to make this an MP VS MM thread, so I'm not going into depth

[Daso]

I'm a MP fan, but MM is more of a technical player, that much is clear, but technical ability is nit what makes a good musician, it's only part.

Anyway I'm not going to make this an MP VS MM thread, so I'm not going into depth

Yes, but how good the musician is might be the subjective side of the arguement. MM is ahead of Portnoy in the objective side, which is being more technical (it's the only one you can take note of on paper through sheet music and so on, I think).

Perhaps Portnoy has done more projects and that shows his abilities to blend in into many sorts of music and still bearing a great chemistry which such a broad range of musicians, that could actually be a sign of who is the "better" musician, but we might never know if Mangini's will is not to participate in lots of projects so that he can properly say "I can play pretty much everything and with anyone, too" (like MP could do if he wanted to because of how many bands he is/has been in successfully). At the same time, I don't think it is MM's will to do that, he has truly found his place in DT and he might be doing a better job than MP did in the band in the musical sense, or at least so at the moment (of course, comparing how they work with MM in the band and how they worked back in BC&SL which was where we heard MP last time in DT).

MM has demonstrated being better in some ways, but he hasn't been able to show that he is the sort of musician who can play with anyone/in any genre (other than being a Berklee teacher, considering he must have gone through teaching all sorts of music to students). MP has participated in so much stuff that has been really successful in the musical scene, just like TWD, TA or FC, that at least I can tell that MP has demonstrated he can play in more bands and be good at it. That might come from MM not having shown it, even though of his ability to do so. I guess that's the part that can't be demonstrated and there is the point whether MM or MP is better. MP has worked successfully with more musicians than MM (as a band member), while MM has demonstrated being more technical than MP through different ways.

[jonnybaxy]

I mean such as feel and groove, like technical proficiency is nice when it's due but sounds near tasteless when overused, you have to have contrast for technicallity and grove/feel to be assessed so to speak.

I personally find that especially on DT12 the drumming sounds robotic and groove-less and to be fair a slice of that is down to the mixing, mastering and effects.

There is a time for technical playing, it doesn't have to be all the time.

But I still think he's an amazing drummer and person, but I'd like to hear his more relaxed side.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Both of them are great drummers, but a lot did change, both personally and musically, for us. Musically, the new Mike has certain skills that the other one does not.

Vs

JORDAN RUDESS: MIKE MANGINI Has Certain Skills That MIKE PORTNOY Does Not.

Yep the headline is definitely written to create drama and they know that very well but as aoon as you read article you get what Jordan is saying anyway.

[hefdaddy42]

People still read blabbermouth?

[nobloodyname]

I just don't understand the apparently desperate need for some to say one musician is 'better' than another.

[The Stray Seed]

It's something that a simple mind will always ask for. I teach medieval swordsfighting and the first thing people ask me usually is: which kind of sword is the strongest?

[rumborak]

Blabbermouth is the People Magazine of heavy metal. Full of artificial drama, but then again also often the ones who have real news first.

[KevShmev]

I don't see what the beef is.  Rudess said what was in the headline, and since the job of a site like that is to get as many hits as possible on their new stories, it only makes sense to use that quote in the headline. 

[Kotowboy]

OUTRAGE AS JORDAN RUDESS SUGGESTS THAT NEW DREAM THEATER DRUMMER IS A DIFFERENT PERSON TO THE OLD DREAM THEATER DRUMMER.

You can prove anything with facts these days say experts.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

It wasn't misleading at all. They obviously wanted to put something in the headline to seduce you to read it right now, but he wasn't taken out of context, and it was exactly what he said. What did the headline mislead you into believing?

[Daso]

The headline is true, though. It's a little bit pushed for the phrase to hold the audience-pulling effect, but it legit enough for it to be used. JR did say that MM is better than MP in some ways. That, of course, does not imply that MP is not better than MM in some other ways, too, but it wasn't said by JR. Thankfully JR explained himself well enough and gave examples as to where MM is better than MP, or, to use his words, he did give examples of the abilities MM has but MP doesn't, and that makes the usage of the phrase as a headliner a lot less harsh.

[jonnybaxy]

It wasn't misleading at all. They obviously wanted to put something in the headline to seduce you to read it right now, but he wasn't taken out of context, and it was exactly what he said. What did the headline mislead you into believing?

That he's had a little 'dig' at MP, which he didn't

[Nefarius]

Certain skills.

Greetings...
Nef

[haceeb]

Anyway, i agree with Jordan.

"Jordan: Well, the two Mikes, the new Mike and the old Mike, are both very different people and they're both very different players. Both of them are great drummers, but a lot did change, both personally and musically, for us. Musically, the new Mike has certain skills that the other one does not. For example, he's incredible with mathematics, especially related to music. He was able to bring us some architectural structure that we've never had to this extent before, as far as meters and how different instruments will interact — that was a totally new element that we got to work with. Also, Mangini has a technique on drums unlike any other human on the planet, so that brings an element of change. He also is really fun in the studio has tons of energy which we feed off of. I'm not saying that in any way to put down our last drummer, Mike Portnoy, who is an exceptional talent and a world-class drummer, but I'm saying that some new things were offered to the group."

[puppyonacid]

I'm a MP fan, but MM is more of a technical player, that much is clear, but technical ability is nit what makes a good musician, it's only part.

Anyway I'm not going to make this an MP VS MM thread, so I'm not going into depth

Yes, but how good the musician is might be the subjective side of the arguement. MM is ahead of Portnoy in the objective side, which is being more technical (it's the only one you can take note of on paper through sheet music and so on, I think).

Perhaps Portnoy has done more projects and that shows his abilities to blend in into many sorts of music and still bearing a great chemistry which such a broad range of musicians, that could actually be a sign of who is the "better" musician, but we might never know if Mangini's will is not to participate in lots of projects so that he can properly say "I can play pretty much everything and with anyone, too" (like MP could do if he wanted to because of how many bands he is/has been in successfully). At the same time, I don't think it is MM's will to do that, he has truly found his place in DT and he might be doing a better job than MP did in the band in the musical sense, or at least so at the moment (of course, comparing how they work with MM in the band and how they worked back in BC&SL which was where we heard MP last time in DT).

MM has demonstrated being better in some ways, but he hasn't been able to show that he is the sort of musician who can play with anyone/in any genre (other than being a Berklee teacher, considering he must have gone through teaching all sorts of music to students). MP has participated in so much stuff that has been really successful in the musical scene, just like TWD, TA or FC, that at least I can tell that MP has demonstrated he can play in more bands and be good at it. That might come from MM not having shown it, even though of his ability to do so. I guess that's the part that can't be demonstrated and there is the point whether MM or MP is better. MP has worked successfully with more musicians than MM (as a band member), while MM has demonstrated being more technical than MP through different ways.

I respect and see what you're saying here. But I'd say that it's arguably true that MM has demonstrated as much if not more versatility as MP. Sure he hasn't been involved in as many projects - but the musicians and bands that MM has played with shows in my opinion a broader spectrum than MP. Weren't Annihilator some sort of Death Metal band? Not to mention Steve Via and Mike Keneally and most notably Extreme.

[Dark Castle]

Annihilator are a thrash metal band, haven't ever been close to death metal 

[Marion Crane]

Marion Crane-"It's literally a direct quote."


Yeah I don't see how it's twisted at all.  It's literally a direct quote.

[puppyonacid]

I'm not well versed on metal genres and I'm happy to be corrected. My point still stands.

[son_ov_hades]

Annihilator are a thrash metal band, haven't ever been close to death metal 

Trying to imagine Randy Rampage doing death metal vocals is great!

[BlobVanDam]

Marion Crane-"It's literally a direct quote."


Yeah I don't see how it's twisted at all.  It's literally a direct quote.

There's still a fair difference between an isolated quote, and seeing the quote in context with a conversation, especially as he was directly questioned on that specific comparison, and led to it by the interviewer.