425's Top 50 Dream Theater Songs v. Singularities

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Ready yourself, then.

I do like your placement of Take The Time. The Glass Prison is good also, though I wouldn't place it or Under A Glass Moon this high.

[Outcrier]

BTL, TGP, UAGM, TTT ("Going well so far")
Album 12: SDOIT ("Wtf just happened"  )

[ThatOneGuy2112]

All 4 are great choices. Can't really argue with any of them.

Album 12. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

You know, I like you, bro. But I'm going to have to kill you.

Aww sheet, you beat me to it.

Seriously though, I could not disagree more. I certainly agree that Six Degrees is DT being more experimental than usual, but never once do I feel while listening to it that they're trying too hard to do so for the sake of it, and never once does it fail at all. Also, I don't really know what album you're listening to when Train of Though has more of a pop dimension than this album. There is SO much of it in the title track, namely About to Crash (both parts) and Solitary Shell, all of which feature it much more so than Endless Sacrifice as you mentioned.

[425]

I do like your placement of Take The Time. The Glass Prison is good also, though I wouldn't place it or Under A Glass Moon this high.

You're going to find out the further we get in this top 20 that I have an immense love for Images and Words that dwarves even my affection for the rest of DT's albums (spoiler alert for the album ranking but that one doesn't matter, the song ranking is the one that I'm keeping secret, partially because I don't know it yet though I think I've set down my #1 in stone).

Seriously though, I could not disagree more. I certainly agree that Six Degrees is DT being more experimental than usual, but never once do I feel while listening to it that they're trying too hard to do so for the sake of it, and never once does it fail at all. Also, I don't really know what album you're listening to when Train of Though has more of a pop dimension than this album. There is SO much of it in the title track, namely About to Crash (both parts) and Solitary Shell, all of which feature it much more so than Endless Sacrifice as you mentioned.

1) I don't mean to accuse the band of trying too hard to be experimental just for the sake of it, because I obviously don't know what they were thinking 14 years ago. I'm just saying that that's how parts of the album, particularly Misunderstood and Disappear, come off to my ear. And I certainly think that many of the experiments fail, like the Misunderstood outro, which, I hate to say because I love the DT guys and so much want to love everything they do, doesn't even sound like music to me.

2) I certainly think that ATC and Solitary Shell have more pop than any one song on ToT. However, the rest of the album pretty much has none of it. A little bit on a few other SDOIT parts, but the first disc is devoid entirely of anything remotely poppy. And that's 55 minutes of music, over half the album. TOT, on the other hand, has As I Am, Endless Sacrifice and Vacant. Then it has This Dying Soul which has a catchy chorus. And as much of a monolithic prog metal instrumental as Stream of Consciousness is, it's catchier to me than anything on the first disc of SDOIT except MAYBE a couple vocal sections of The Glass Prison.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

To me, that Misunderstood outro is fantastic. Sometimes I think I'm the only one around here who really loves it.

And I never thought that music had to be catchy to be good. The first disc is certainly devoid of pop sensibilities, but I don't think there's really anything wrong with that. Though if that's something that you seek in music, there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes and all.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I like the ending of Misunderstood. Blind Faith is the only song that I'm just lukewarm on.

[yeah_93]

Funny how you say 5:53 of TGP is the best part, I always skip it. Repetitive and tedious. I agree with the outro bit though, it's a killer.

[bl5150]

Though if that's something that you seek in music, there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes and all.

That's me I suppose..although I wouldn't say I like "pop" , more a melodic hook.

I agree with you 425 - SDOIT ranks close to my biggest disappointment in music.    I wouldn't rank it below SC or ToT because SDOIT (the suite/song) saves it but I can honestly say I've only listened to Disc One a handful of times since I bought it on release and not sure if I could make it through from start to finish these days.

For me there's a sweet spot/intersection where melodic metal/rock and prog meet that contains some of my favourite music of all time (and DT has recorded many of my all time favourite albums) but when the hooks go then , despite my appreciation (as an ex-muso and even as a guitarist in a DT cover band) for the musicianship , then so does much of my desire to listen to it.

The DT I love has been back with us since around BC&SL and more so since ADTOE. 

I have no desire to listen to Haken or Geddy Lee either so all the people here who share my taste in that regard could have a monthly meeting in a phone box 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

You like BCSL but dislike SC? That's interesting, most people tend to group them together. (I don't, and actually love both albums, but that's a bit of a tangent )

I also agree that music doesn't have to be catchy to be good, or at least traditionally defined "catchy".

[Outcrier]

You like BCSL but dislike SC? That's interesting, most people tend to group them together. (I don't, and actually love both albums, but that's a bit of a tangent )

I think they group them together for other reason

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, because they're lame.

[bl5150]

You like BCSL but dislike SC? That's interesting, most people tend to group them together. (I don't, and actually love both albums, but that's a bit of a tangent )

I also agree that music doesn't have to be catchy to be good, or at least traditionally defined "catchy".

I really like a couple of songs off SC but there's a fair bit I dislike - there's nothing I really actively dislike on BCSL - having said that it doesn't contain many favourites and wouldn't be in my Top 5 from DT.

There's no accounting for taste and it's never as simple as saying "he likes this , so he must like this".   I'm often surprised at members here who like one album but not another that I consider very similar etc.....

[425]

To me, that Misunderstood outro is fantastic. Sometimes I think I'm the only one around here who really loves it.

And I never thought that music had to be catchy to be good. The first disc is certainly devoid of pop sensibilities, but I don't think there's really anything wrong with that. Though if that's something that you seek in music, there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes and all.

I don't think music has to be catchy to be good, but that's one of the big things for which I'm increasingly listening to music. And honestly, DT is the band that got me into that, since before I was listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica most of the time, which are two not-very-catchy bands. There's plenty of good music that isn't catchy; hell, I put Blind Faith in my top 50 and I don't find that to be a catchy song at all. It's just one of those things where, like you said, that's what I seek in music and it's okay if other people don't. It's just that because that's what I seek in music, I don't like SDOIT as much as I do DT's other albums.

I just can't stand the ending of Misunderstood, which is a damn shame because the rest of the song is probably top 30. I don't know, if you like it, great, but for me, I start cringing when I hear the guitar noise and tinkly keys. It's the only DT section that actively bothers me, and I think it's because it's the only one that drifts into atonal territory, which I really can't stand.

Though if that's something that you seek in music, there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes and all.

That's me I suppose..although I wouldn't say I like "pop" , more a melodic hook.

I agree with you 425 - SDOIT ranks close to my biggest disappointment in music.    I wouldn't rank it below SC or ToT because SDOIT (the suite/song) saves it but I can honestly say I've only listened to Disc One a handful of times since I bought it on release and not sure if I could make it through from start to finish these days.

For me there's a sweet spot/intersection where melodic metal/rock and prog meet that contains some of my favourite music of all time (and DT has recorded many of my all time favourite albums) but when the hooks go then , despite my appreciation (as an ex-muso and even as a guitarist in a DT cover band) for the musicianship , then so does much of my desire to listen to it.

The DT I love has been back with us since around BC&SL and more so since ADTOE. 

I have no desire to listen to Haken or Geddy Lee either so all the people here who share my taste could have a monthly meeting in a phone box 

I very much agree with much of what you said, though I do like ToT significantly more than you do.

Also, I like Rush (though I think they're somewhat overrated), and I just got Aquarius and I'm loving that. So I'm going to have to also disagree with you on the "Haken or Geddy Lee" remark and leave you to your phone booth...

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

You like BCSL but dislike SC? That's interesting, most people tend to group them together. (I don't, and actually love both albums, but that's a bit of a tangent )

I also agree that music doesn't have to be catchy to be good, or at least traditionally defined "catchy".

I really like a couple of songs off SC but there's a fair bit I dislike - there's nothing I really actively dislike on BCSL - having said that it doesn't contain many favourites and wouldn't be in my Top 5 from DT.

There's no accounting for taste and it's never as simple as saying "he likes this , so he must like this".   I'm often surprised at members here who like one album but not another that I consider very similar etc.....

Oh yeah, everyone has their own taste, I just found it interesting since I haven't really heard that before. My DT rankings are always in flux, but most days I'd have BCSL in my top 3.

[Outcrier]

I don't think music has to be catchy to be good, but that's one of the big things for which I'm increasingly listening to music. And honestly, DT is the band that got me into that, since before I was listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica most of the time, which are two not-very-catchy bands.

This i don't understand.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

In terms of what's generally considered "catchy", Metallica isn't very catchy. They barely even have melodies.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I just can't stand the ending of Misunderstood, which is a damn shame because the rest of the song is probably top 30. I don't know, if you like it, great, but for me, I start cringing when I hear the guitar noise and tinkly keys. It's the only DT section that actively bothers me, and I think it's because it's the only one that drifts into atonal territory, which I really can't stand.

It's weird cause when I first heard it, it certainly didn't sit too well for me just for how odd it was, but has since grown on me immensely.

I think the section compliments the chaotic theme of the lyrics pretty well, since the ending is pretty much equally chaotic, if not more so. The constant bass line and riff in the backdrop still helps it retain a heaviness and a groove that I just dig a lot.

[Outcrier]

In terms of what's generally considered "catchy", Metallica isn't very catchy. They barely even have melodies.

This i don't understand.

[425]

I don't think music has to be catchy to be good, but that's one of the big things for which I'm increasingly listening to music. And honestly, DT is the band that got me into that, since before I was listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica most of the time, which are two not-very-catchy bands.

This i don't understand.

I never found them that catchy compared to most other music. They have their catchy moments (Enter Sandman, Run to the Hills), but they don't IMO have choruses that stick in your head like a good pop song would, nor are they at all consistently catchy throughout their discographies. DT blows both of them out of the water in that department, IMO.

EDIT: And I say this with all the love I have for both of them, of course. Which for IM is everything but half of Fear of the Dark and for Metallica is everything except KEA, half the Loads and most of the unmentionable one.

It's weird cause when I first heard it, it certainly didn't sit too well for me just for how odd it was, but has since grown on me immensely.

I think the section compliments the chaotic theme of the lyrics pretty well, since the ending is pretty much equally chaotic, if not more so. The constant bass line and riff in the backdrop still helps it retain a heaviness and a groove that I just dig a lot.

I get how it compliments the lyrics and everything. I just don't like to hear it, at all. So it kinda doesn't impact my liking of it to know that it at least compliments the lyrics. I do like the riff a lot, I just hate hate hate the guitar noise and tinkly keys (I've typed "tinkly" tonight way more than I ever had in my life up until then).

[bl5150]

Seeing as we mostly agree 425 I'll give Aquarius a go - haven't heard that one.  I can tell that they're a band that are capable of hooking me ( so to speak) but nothing I've sampled so far - maybe a dozen random tracks- has done anything much for me.

Anyway................good to know that I'm not entirely alone in my reservations on SDOIT , my liking for BCSL and my thoughts on Rush being over rated.    I keep trying with Rush (because so many people whose opinions on music I respect - and whose tastes I mostly share ,including many here- rate them so high.  But to no avail so far)

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Six Degrees as a whole didn't sit well with me for a while, except the title track. Then one time, I was walking out in the field past our yard (I like walk while listening to music, it gives me something monotonous to do while listening), and for some reason I just realized how amazing it was, especially The Great Debate and Disappear.

Actually, all this has made me want to listen to Six Degrees again.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Seeing as we mostly agree 425 I'll give Aquarius a go - haven't heard that one.  I can tell that they're a band that are capable of hooking me ( so to speak) but nothing I've sampled so far - maybe a dozen random tracks- has done anything much for me.

Anyway................good to know that I'm not entirely alone in my reservations on SDOIT , my liking for BCSL and my thoughts on Rush being over rated.    I keep trying with Rush (because so many people whose opinions on music I respect - and whose tastes I mostly share ,including many here- rate them so high.  But to no avail so far)

I don't love Rush like many here do, but I quite like them a lot of the time. Have you listened to Signals? It's one of their catchier albums, and one of my favorites.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I do like the riff a lot, I just hate hate hate the guitar noise and tinkly keys (I've typed "tinkly" tonight way more than I ever had in my life up until then).

I guess I just like the tone of JP's guitar there. Them "tinkly keys" I don't mind much either. Agree to disagree I suppose. Though I am with Shadow Ninja:

Actually, all this has made me want to listen to Six Degrees again.

[bl5150]

[ Have you listened to Signals? It's one of their catchier albums, and one of my favorites.

I have had that suggested to me by others too - I gather it's an album many of the diehard fans of their earlier work dislike with some passion.   I did go out and buy it but (along with dozens of other albums) it's waiting around to be listened to , so I can't comment as yet.  Will give it a go during the week.   Aside from the music though I have a hard time imagining myself digging Geddy Lee's voice which will make it hard to really love the band.  We'll see.........

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Geddy is an acquired taste to be sure, but I think he sounds excellent on Signals, actually as good as he's ever sounded.

The album does seem to be disliked by a fair contingent of Rush's prog fans, especially since it's a lot more synth driven (which I love, personally).

Also, sorry for hijacking your thread, 425.    Though I think we've got a great discussion going on here.

[Outcrier]

I don't think music has to be catchy to be good, but that's one of the big things for which I'm increasingly listening to music. And honestly, DT is the band that got me into that, since before I was listening to Iron Maiden and Metallica most of the time, which are two not-very-catchy bands.

This i don't understand.

I never found them that catchy compared to most other music. They have their catchy moments (Enter Sandman, Run to the Hills), but they don't IMO have choruses that stick in your head like a good pop song would, nor are they at all consistently catchy throughout their discographies. DT blows both of them out of the water in that department, IMO.

I think its quite the contrary but, regardless, they have plenty catchy stuff, pop or no...Maiden choruses are very catchy most of the time.

[425]

Seeing as we mostly agree 425 I'll give Aquarius a go - haven't heard that one.  I can tell that they're a band that are capable of hooking me ( so to speak) but nothing I've sampled so far - maybe a dozen random tracks- has done anything much for me.

Anyway................good to know that I'm not entirely alone in my reservations on SDOIT , my liking for BCSL and my thoughts on Rush being over rated.    I keep trying with Rush (because so many people whose opinions on music I respect - and whose tastes I mostly share ,including many here- rate them so high.  But to no avail so far)

I like Rush, but I rarely get the urge to listen to their stuff. I like many of their songs but just can't get into them like I can with DT.

With Aquarius, that's an album that took me around three listens before I was seriously impressed. And it is an album with a lot of memorable choruses. It's just that there's also some "wtf" moments as well. But the chorus to Celestial Elixir is one of those great moments in music where you have a great melody, some good lyrics, and some significant emotion all at once.

[ Have you listened to Signals? It's one of their catchier albums, and one of my favorites.

I have had that suggested to me by others too - I gather it's an album many of the diehard fans of their earlier work dislike with some passion.   I did go out and buy it but (along with dozens of other albums) it's waiting around to be listened to , so I can't comment as yet.  Will give it a go during the week.   Aside from the music though I have a hard time imagining myself digging Geddy Lee's voice which will make it hard to really love the band.  We'll see.........

I would endorse Signals as much as I would any Rush album and more than most. Geddy is a lot more subdued on it than on previous ones. I've only spun it a couple of times because I rarely get the urge to play any Rush, but it's close to being my favorite. I'm in the same boat as well with having a Rush album sitting around in the stack of albums to be listened to, that's been there for a while. In my case, it's Grace Under Pressure.

I guess I just like the tone of JP's guitar there. Them "tinkly keys" I don't mind much either. Agree to disagree I suppose.

No. I hate everyone who likes the tinkly keys.


Kidding, of course, I definitely agree to disagree.

I think its quite the contrary but, regardless, they have plenty catchy stuff, pop or no...Maiden choruses are very catchy most of the time.

Some Maiden choruses are rather catchy, to my ear. But I don't think Maiden has a single chorus that is as catchy as practically every damn vocal line in The Killing Hand. I think this is at least to a degree subjective, though.

Also, sorry for hijacking your thread, 425.    Though I think we've got a great discussion going on here.

No, of course, this is fantastic. I'm loving the discussion.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I usually never have an urge to listen to Rush, but when I do, I always enjoy it and wonder why I don't listen to them more.  

[425]

That's pretty much my exact reaction to Rush. I'll play Moving Pictures and be like "damn, time to go on a Rush listening spree!"

Then the next Rush I listen to is Moving Pictures like four months later.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Considering my username...

Any lack of love for Rush will be met with the wrath of a million suns.

[Crow]

Other songs where LaBrie sings during the outro:
Pull Me Under
Surrounded
Metropolis
The Silent Man
Burning My Soul
Regression (I guess?)
Strange Deja Vu (ignoring the piano segue which is basically part of...)
Through My Words
Beneath The Surface
The Bigger Picture

so... jussayin

Four great picks though, can't complain about any of them, except maybe TTT being too low but 

[Outcrier]

I think its quite the contrary but, regardless, they have plenty catchy stuff, pop or no...Maiden choruses are very catchy most of the time.

Some Maiden choruses are rather catchy, to my ear. But I don't think Maiden has a single chorus that is as catchy as practically every damn vocal line in The Killing Hand. I think this is at least to a degree subjective, though.

Yeah, i have to agree... Besides, i didn't ask you what your opinion in what a good pop song is 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Almost anything by Lady Gaga.

[Laughingplace56]

Beyond This Life is great but too high.
I won't comment on TGP because I haven't finished my top 50 yet and if it does show up, it hasn't yet.
UAGM comes in a few spots lower on my list but I agree on how beautiful the intro is. The song doesn't get enough praise.
Never got into TtT as much as others do. Catchy, but overall just not their best.


SDOIT as your least favorite DT album is a travesty to the human race. 

[425]

Other songs where LaBrie sings during the outro:
Pull Me Under
Surrounded
Metropolis
The Silent Man
Burning My Soul
Regression (I guess?)
Strange Deja Vu (ignoring the piano segue which is basically part of...)
Through My Words
Beneath The Surface
The Bigger Picture

so... jussayin

Okay, you have a point, but what I was getting at with that is that he's singing like as the song ends, like instead of him being done singing and then there's another bar or two and then the song ends, he sings as it ends.

That takes care of Surrounded, Metropolis, Burning My Soul, Beneath the Surface and The Bigger Picture all of which are good points if I had meant what I said. I was just being imprecise in my wordings. So Pull Me Under and The Silent Man are valid counterexamples. And Regression, SDV and TMW don't really... they all run into the next song, so... eh. Still, nice long list of counterpoints Actually, I do appreciate it because it proves to me that someone is actually reading what I write (I'm really paranoid that people aren't).

Yeah, i have to agree... Besides, i didn't ask you what your opinion in what a good pop song is 

And I didn't volunteer that information because most of my replies would be more controversial than SDOIT worst DT album, and I've gotten death threats over that!

But seriously, just to give an example that won't get me murdered of a good catchy song that's rather popular and isn't prog or metal, I'd say Coldplay's The Scientist is really catchy and good.