If ACoS was on I&W... where would I&W rank all-time?

[XB0BX]

That would literally be my favorite album in the history of music.

I&W might already be my favorite but if you could somehow add one of my all-time favorite songs at the end.. man

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't think it would really work as an album. A Change Of Seasons is fine where it is.

[Nick]

You're question is slightly flawed, as the label wanted a 60 minute album, which is why some tracks that were available to them (To Live Forever, Don't Look Past Me) weren't on the album. So even if the label allowed a 20+ minute track on the album, you have to account for the fact that some other songs you love (at least 2), would be left out.

[son_ov_hades]

If no other songs were taken out, easily the best Dream Theater album and probably top 5 for me.

[bl5150]

For me it's already one of the best few albums ever anyway and adding ACOS wouldn't improve that rating and may actually detract a touch.   From my point of view one of the most important things about a good song, album, solo etc.... is to hang around just long enough to keep you wanting some more and not a second longer.

I think the album is perfect as it is ending with LTL - tack on a 20+min epic (which for me isn't as strong as  the material on I&W)  and I'm not sure that's the case any more.

Either way - I&W     

[Daso]

If it actually kept Don't Look Past Me, To Live Forever and ACoS, it would be my definite favorite, not matching against Awake and DT12. Perhaps it would feel too long, though. I don't really know.

If it only kept ACoS, would it be the first version that they had planned or a longer version (like the one on the ACoS EP) with Moore? If it was the second, it could still get the spot I mentioned.

Also, how good would the ACoS EP be if it had Don't Look Past Me and To Live Forever on it in a nicely sounding recording?

[BlobVanDam]

If ACOS was on IaW, it would drag it down for me. It's not even close to the standard of the rest of the album, especially the earlier version of ACOS at the time.

[Tom Bombadil]

It still wouldn't be better than Awake... But probably 2nd all time.

[KevShmev]

I don't think it would really work as an album. A Change Of Seasons is fine where it is.

This. 

[Bolsters]

If ACOS was on IaW, it would drag it down for me. It's not even close to the standard of the rest of the album, especially the earlier version of ACOS at the time.

That's how I feel about it, too. I think ACOS would make I&W feel bloated, too, given that it's a 20-something minute track and I&W is a more than reasonable length already.

[RaiseTheKnife]

If ACOS were on I&W, it would be the less appealing version.  No epic intro, weaker lyrics, etc. Just bear that in mind the song improved vastly over that short time.

[425]

If ACOS were on I&W, it would be the less appealing version.  No epic intro, weaker lyrics, etc. Just bear that in mind the song improved vastly over that short time.

This and also I&W is so perfect as is that I would oppose any changes. ACOS would be one of my least favorites if it was on Images, especially the 1991 version.

[Siddhartha]

I would still prefer SFAM.

[JiM-Xtreme]

I don't think it would really work as an album. A Change Of Seasons is fine where it is.

[?]

I don't think it would really work as an album. A Change Of Seasons is fine where it is.

[bosk1]

I don't think it would really work as an album. A Change Of Seasons is fine where it is.

This. 

I agree.  But to play along...

I&W is a very good album, that only suffers due to inconsistency.  Much like Systematic Chaos, it has some of Dream Theater's absolute best songs ever, along with some that are quite average or below average, at least by DT standards.  Trimming out some of those songs to make room for ACOS could make I&W one of their best albums, provided that the final version of ACOS was used.  Because the other obvious problem with a question like this is that the version of ACOS that existed at the time was not nearly as good as the final vesion that ended up on the EP a few years later.  But if we could somehow bend the space/time continuum and include the final version in place of Another Day and Surrounded, it could truly make for a great album. 

[davidolson22]

I agree.  But to play along...

I&W is a very good album, that only suffers due to inconsistency.  Much like Systematic Chaos, it has some of Dream Theater's absolute best songs ever, along with some that are quite average or below average, at least by DT standards.  Trimming out some of those songs to make room for ACOS could make I&W one of their best albums, provided that the final version of ACOS was used.  Because the other obvious problem with a question like this is that the version of ACOS that existed at the time was not nearly as good as the final vesion that ended up on the EP a few years later.  But if we could somehow bend the space/time continuum and include the final version in place of Another Day and Surrounded, it could truly make for a great album.

Get rid of Surrounded or Another Day? Not sure if serious.

[The Stray Seed]

I&W is a very good album, that only suffers due to inconsistency.

What? Are you serious?

But if we could somehow bend the space/time continuum and include the final version in place of Another Day and Surrounded, it could truly make for a great album. 

Yeah, you definitely must be joking.

[son_ov_hades]

This could go in the controversial opinions thread too, but I prefer 91 A Change Of Seasons to 95 and I really wish the earlier version had made it onto Images And Words. Though the album is just about perfect as is, the 91 version added in would make it just slightly better.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would still prefer SFAM.

This.

[Nearmyth]

It would rank lower, because I don't think ACOS fits in I&W at all.

[TheGreatPretender]

It would rank lower, because I don't think ACOS fits in I&W at all.

It probably would have ended up quite different if they had recorded it in 1992 with Kevin Moore.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

In this hypothetical situation where no answer is really wrong, I think that the album would be much better and one of the best of all time.

I'd open the album with ACOS. PMU would be a fine Track 2 and of course LTL is a fine album ender.

OR,

I'd do it like Six Degrees where ACOS is the second disc.

[TheGreatPretender]

If Images and Words WAS going to be a double album, then I think laying it out like this would be best:

Disc 1:
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take The Time
Surrounded
Metropolis
Wait For Sleep
Learning To Live

Disc 2:
Don't Look Past Me
To Live Forever
Under A Glass Moon
A Change of Seasons

[The Dark Master]

Take The Time, Learning To Live and A Change Of Seasons are three of my top four DT songs, and I&W is already my favourite album of all time, so the idea of having all three songs on one album is tempting.  That being said, though, there are a couple of issues with including ACOS on I&W.  For one thing, the version of ACOS that would have ended up on that album was vastly inferior to the version on the '95 EP.  While the original does have afew little things I wish they had kept on the final version (namely JP's epic solo in The Inevitable Summer and few little KM keyboard flourishes here and there), overall, the final version of the song was an improvement in almost every conceivable way, which never would have existed had DT been able to include the original on I&W.  Beyond that, because of the presence of DS and the 7 string guitar, the final version does not stylistically fit with I&W, and would be a much better fit for FII (and it serves as an excellent replacement for the incomplete Metropolis II on the FII demos).

I will add though, that I really wish the album had included To Live Forever and Don't Look Past Me, as I love both of those songs a lot, and they are an excellent fit for the record.  While the label may have wanted to keep the album at around an hour in length, including both of those songs would have increased it to only 68 min, which isn't that much longer then it is already.   Also, I think MP said that the reason those two songs were cut was because the band wanted to maintain a balance of shorter commercial songs and longer, proggier songs, so when Another Day and Surrounded were written, they decided to swap out a couple of tracks.  It's a shame they didn't include all 10 tracks, though, as that would have made an already magical album all the more epic.

[rumborak]

Err, ACOS was released after Awake, so shouldn't the question rather be about whether Awake would be better with ACOS on it?

[TheGreatPretender]

Err, ACOS was released after Awake, so shouldn't the question rather be about whether Awake would be better with ACOS on it?

Yeah, but it was originally written and conceptualized (albeit in a very rough form) before Images and Words.

[BlobVanDam]

Err, ACOS was released after Awake, so shouldn't the question rather be about whether Awake would be better with ACOS on it?

Yeah, but it was originally written and conceptualized (albeit in a very rough form) before Images and Words.

And they did originally want it on IaW. It doesn't make as much sense to hypothetically stick it on Awake, when given their own way, it would have been on IaW before that.
That said, if you lopped off Lie onwards, and stuck on ACOS instead, I'd consider it a much better album.

[TheGreatPretender]

I have to say though that the 1991 bootleg version that exists proves that the song was in such infantile stages at the time, that for the most part, it sounds very incomplete. There were some cool ideas that may have been subjectively better than on the final version, but all in all, the vocal melodies and phrasing for the most part weren't here nor there, and it seemed like JLB was just improvising them, and not very well.
I mean, sure, it's possible that had they been given a green light to put that song on I&W, they would've properly developed it, but who knows? All I know is that I certainly wouldn't want to hear the 1991 version on the album, and it would end up dragging the album down big time.

[black_biff_stadler]

I'd either have a cracked I&W or penis trauma from trying to fuck the disc right in the hole in the middle.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'd either have a cracked I&W or penis trauma from trying to fuck the disc right in the hole in the middle.

Or you could end up with the best of both worlds and end up permanently fused to your copy of I&W.

[black_biff_stadler]

 

[Nearmyth]

It would rank lower, because I don't think ACOS fits in I&W at all.

It probably would have ended up quite different if they had recorded it in 1992 with Kevin Moore.

True. I'm sure if they had recorded it as a full studio recording back then, it would have fit I&W a lot better.