Are there -ANY- fans on DTF?

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Im asking seriously.
Okay, I'm brand spankin' new here, but I was under the assumption that this is a fan site.
All I've seen, thus far, is complaints about this song or that album or which band member sucks ...
I don't get it. I've even read someone saying that they are bored by Dream Theater after multiple listens.
I have literally, no exaggeration, listened to DT every single day for the past three years.
While I have favorite songs and many of them change, I cannot say that there is one song that I dislike.
Am I really alone in this?

[ReaperKK]

My best answer to this is that not everyone will love everything. Or in my case just hang around for the community. Personally before DT 12 came out the last album I was a real fan of ToT, but I enjoy being on the DTF forums. Lots of great folks here.

[tjanuranus]

I understand where you are coming from, reading that Enigma Machine thread is pretty depressing considering how awesome that song is. And then on top of it, so many people wish they were steven wilson's bicycle seat, it's dumb. Every DT album is great in it's own way. Some better than others but all of them are awesome. DT fan here for life since 95. 

[Daso]

Well, I guess you have to think properly about what a "fan" is. A fan won't necessarily like everything the band releases. To me, being a fan is supporting the band even after they do something you don't really agree with (in this case, a song/album you dislike won't make you stop listening to the band). That has to go along with following the band to some extent.

To what you say, yes, not everyone in here likes every album or every song and that is completely normal, particularly with a band like Dream Theater, considering how many sides there are to the band. There might be people that like more the heavy/metal side, others the mellow stuff, others the prog stuff and so on, and that might go against liking another side, as in "I like the heaviest songs, but the ballads seem kind of bland" or "I like both the heavy and the mellow. The prog part sounds like pure mathematical wankery with no soul" and so on.

It's all opinions in the end, and having opinions is precisely what makes people fans.

[tjanuranus]

Well, I guess you have to think properly about what a "fan" is. A fan won't necessarily like everything the band releases. To me, being a fan is supporting the band even after they do something you don't really agree with (in this case, a song/album you dislike won't make you stop listening to the band). That has to go along with following the band to some extent.

To what you say, yes, not everyone in here likes every album or every song and that is completely normal, particularly with a band like Dream Theater, considering how many sides there are to the band. There might be people that like more the heavy/metal side, others the mellow stuff, others the prog stuff and so on, and that might go against liking another side, as in "I like the heaviest songs, but the ballads seem kind of bland" or "I like both the heavy and the mellow. The prog part sounds like pure mathematical wankery with no soul" and so on.

It's all opinions in the end, and having opinions is precisely what makes people fans.

yeah but what if I like EVERY side and that's why I am actually a fan of the band. If I only liked one aspect of DT, I wouldn't consider myself a DT fan. Their diversity is one thing that makes them special and great.

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

My best answer to this is that not everyone will love everything. Or in my case just hang around for the community. Personally before DT 12 came out the last album I was a real fan of ToT, but I enjoy being on the DTF forums. Lots of great folks here.

I fully understand that not every song will be everyone's cup of tea, but I personally can't see calling anything by DT rubbish. For example, I've seen a lot of hate thrown at ADToE, but I think that album is AMAZING ... Sure, that's just one man's opinion, I just can't understand why it would be hated. I mean, after the departure of Mike Portnoy, they decided to continue making music for us, the fans ... Seems kind of mean spirited to shit on their effort.
The only negative thing I can say about the band, is that they have ruined other music for me; I literally cannot tolerate the majority of music that I listened to before I finally "got" Dream Theater.

[Prog Snob]

Not everyone is going to like everything a band does. It doesn't make them less of a fan than someone who loves everything they do. Personally, I do love all of their CDs but I don't love them the same way. I'll listen to my least favorite release from DT before I'd listen to most other band's music.  At the same time, I might wish they had things differently in certain songs. 

People who complain about everything are who they are.  I don't see the point but to each his own.  However, constructive criticism is always interesting to take into consideration.  They might point out something you missed or didn't realize and it can be enlightening. 

[jammindude]

What site are you on?

I've been hanging out here quite some time now, and while I do see *some* criticism....I find it to be in the overwhelming minority.   

Have you see the poll on the new album?    Every time feedback is asked for, the polls show an 80-90% approval rating on the new album...from both new fans, and old timers.

Seems like you're putting a "zoom lens" on the vocal minority. 

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Well, I guess you have to think properly about what a "fan" is. A fan won't necessarily like everything the band releases. To me, being a fan is supporting the band even after they do something you don't really agree with (in this case, a song/album you dislike won't make you stop listening to the band). That has to go along with following the band to some extent.

To what you say, yes, not everyone in here likes every album or every song and that is completely normal, particularly with a band like Dream Theater, considering how many sides there are to the band. There might be people that like more the heavy/metal side, others the mellow stuff, others the prog stuff and so on, and that might go against liking another side, as in "I like the heaviest songs, but the ballads seem kind of bland" or "I like both the heavy and the mellow. The prog part sounds like pure mathematical wankery with no soul" and so on.

It's all opinions in the end, and having opinions is precisely what makes people fans.

yeah but what if I like EVERY side and that's why I am actually a fan of the band. If I only liked one aspect of DT, I wouldn't consider myself a DT fan. Their diversity is one thing that makes them special and great.

I'm right there with you, I love every facet of Dream Theater and I especially appreciate their diversity, it opens my mind to other genres and new possibilities in music.
Sure, disliking a song doesn't discredit someone's "fandom", bashing an entire half of the band's career does.
Do you know how many times I've heard things like "oh, I liked everything up until (album) and nothing since." that's more like a used to be fan.

[Sycsa]

I have literally, no exaggeration, listened to DT every single day for the past three years.

Same here, and I was rushing home today because I just had to listen to Trial of Tears.

I guess your mileage may vary depending on personal experience/expectations. When I joined this forum, it was the exact Costanza for me, as I was surprised how positive everyone was regarding DT. Before that I was on a foreign language DT forum, and everybody was hung up on how ADTOE is the same uninspired crap as the four albums that preceded it and how Jordan has no taste to his sound and playing. This stuff was unanimous. I couldn't believe my ears (eyes) because I liked all their albums, ADTOE felt like a major shift in a preferred direction and Jordan was my favorite member, whose sounds and playing hit a peak with ADTOE. Still, I got somewhat used to the state of mind of that forum, so coming here was like a breath of fresh air.

Of course you get the silly stuff (People proudly announcing that they're not voting for DT on polls; "Raw Dog > Enigma Machine"; "How dare Jordan use the same patch on two consecutive albums?!"; "Mike playing a one handed snare roll ruins the song for me" - just to name a few that stuck out to me recently), but overall I think this forum is as friendly and positive as it gets.

I understand where you are coming from, reading that Enigma Machine thread is pretty depressing considering how awesome that song is.

Indeed, I'm totally perplexed about that. EM stuck out the most on the first listen and it's still easily a top 3 song, besides IT and Behind the Veil.

[Kotowboy]

I don't think anyone here *hates* any of the albums - it's just that some aren't as good as Octavarium

[Syzzle]

Maybe if this was the 5/8 forums you would have a point, but the majority of people here have been very positive about the new album.

[Tom Bombadil]

Just look at the "What are your thought on DT12" thread. 391 of 501 people voted "very strong" or higher. Almost %80. That's what some might call an "overwhelming majority". I'd say you're focusing way too much on the negative comments. Most people here love Dream Theater. I mean, why would somebody join a forum to a band they don't even like??

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

I'm not so much referring to their lastest album, as just a general observation of their entire library.
And not liking a particular song or even entire album doesn't mean that someone isn't a fan ... It's the trash talk that surprised me.

[Buddyhunter1]

You can still be a fan and dislike certain aspects/releases of the band.

Dream Theater is my favorite band ever, but they still have some songs I cannot stand in the slightest. (Ministry of Lost Souls, You Not Me, Through Her Eyes... ugh.)

[Zook]

I'll never understand coming to a band's forum which you actively hate because you like talking to the other members of the forum. Get in touch on Facebook or something.

But yeah, Dream Theater is my favorite band, but they aren't perfect.

[Bolsters]

I'm glad that we're allowed to post about not liking things, because IMO there are two kinds of internet cesspools. The first is the cesspool of blind hatred where everything an artist does is criticised unfairly and they are bashed and ridiculed and made fun of. There's no constructive criticism, and usually a lot of ignorance. The second kind of cesspool is the fanboy cesspool, the one where an artist is worshipped to the point that everyone basically kiss the asses of the artist with every post, thinks the artist can do absolutely nothing wrong and everything they do is right and great, and any kind of criticism, no matter how constructive, or any kind of subjective opinion that isn't favorable towards the artist is met with hate from the fanboys.

Quite frankly, I find it insulting that anyone thinks this place should be about nothing but praise, and people are critical of those who don't like every single song or facet of the band. Especially when it's done with a snarky and argumentative tone ("I thought this was a fan site" and "Are there any fans on DTF") It's a fan site, obviously it's a better place for not allowing outright bashing of the band the site is about and a positive atmosphere maintained. But it's also a better place because we can be critical and talk about the things we don't like with each other, too. We should be able to discuss both the things we like and the things we don't, because that's what makes interesting discussion.

[Daso]

Well, I guess you have to think properly about what a "fan" is. A fan won't necessarily like everything the band releases. To me, being a fan is supporting the band even after they do something you don't really agree with (in this case, a song/album you dislike won't make you stop listening to the band). That has to go along with following the band to some extent.

To what you say, yes, not everyone in here likes every album or every song and that is completely normal, particularly with a band like Dream Theater, considering how many sides there are to the band. There might be people that like more the heavy/metal side, others the mellow stuff, others the prog stuff and so on, and that might go against liking another side, as in "I like the heaviest songs, but the ballads seem kind of bland" or "I like both the heavy and the mellow. The prog part sounds like pure mathematical wankery with no soul" and so on.

It's all opinions in the end, and having opinions is precisely what makes people fans.

yeah but what if I like EVERY side and that's why I am actually a fan of the band. If I only liked one aspect of DT, I wouldn't consider myself a DT fan. Their diversity is one thing that makes them special and great.

I'm right there with you, I love every facet of Dream Theater and I especially appreciate their diversity, it opens my mind to other genres and new possibilities in music.
Sure, disliking a song doesn't discredit someone's "fandom", bashing an entire half of the band's career does.
Do you know how many times I've heard things like "oh, I liked everything up until (album) and nothing since." that's more like a used to be fan.

You do have a point right there, but I don't recall anyone here disliking more than two albums of the band individually, and both because of different reasons. In my case, I don't really like most of ToT and 8VM, with the exception of a few songs, but I still consider myself a fan, to the point I have traveled to another country just to see the band because they weren't coming to mine.

[DebraKadabra]

I'm glad that we're allowed to post about not liking things, because IMO there are two kinds of internet cesspools. The first is the cesspool of blind hatred where everything an artist does is criticised unfairly and they are bashed and ridiculed and made fun of. There's no constructive criticism, and usually a lot of ignorance. The second kind of cesspool is the fanboy cesspool, the one where an artist is worshipped to the point that everyone basically kiss the asses of the artist with every post, thinks the artist can do absolutely nothing wrong and everything they do is right and great, and any kind of criticism, no matter how constructive, or any kind of subjective opinion that isn't favorable towards the artist is met with hate from the fanboys.

Quite frankly, I find it insulting that anyone thinks this place should be about nothing but praise, and people are critical of those who don't like every single song or facet of the band. Especially when it's done with a snarky and argumentative tone ("I thought this was a fan site" and "Are there any fans on DTF") It's a fan site, obviously it's a better place for not allowing outright bashing of the band the site is about and a positive atmosphere maintained. But it's also a better place because we can be critical and talk about the things we don't like with each other, too. We should be able to discuss both the things we like and the things we don't, because that's what makes interesting discussion.

Well said, Bolsters - great post.

[senecadawg2]

A lot of the more frequent posters around here were likely bigger DT fans when they originally signed up. At least, that's been my experience. And as I became a little less obsessed with DT I happily stuck around for everything else going on here.

It's great for discussion and/or discovery of non-DT music, general discussion topics, and even the rare p/r thread that I might pop into.  In fact, it's excellent for all of those things, and it helps that there are a ton of interesting posters to make it so 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

No. I hate DT.

[Nearmyth]

It's a fan site. As in people who like DT come to this site. As in people who are familiar with their music and discography come to this site. As in the people on this site have something in common to talk about and share with freedom. As in people will share their thoughts and opinions about the band and their music, whether negative or positive.

Basically what I'm saying is that, no one on this site really needs to establish that they're a DT fan. Our common interest is DT. So it would be boring if the only things people talked about were the positives.

Pop in every once in a while, lurk a bit, immerse yourself in the community, take your time, and enjoy the freedom to voice your opinions (even if they are blatantly wrong  ). We aren't all that bad.

[Rodni Demental]

If they're on this site complaining, they're still enough of a DT fan to even bother doing such a thing so it's all good! 

[KevShmev]

This is a bizarre thread, considering reaction to the new album has been pretty damn positive.  Almost overwhelmingly so.  But if you are a fan who dislikes seeing any criticism of your favorite band, I guess it is easy to focus on the few negative comments.

Also, DT did not keep going after Portnoy left to make us happy; they kept doing it for themselves.  DT has always been a fan friendly-band, but they ultimately do it for themselves, which is the way it should be.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!!

[The Letter M]

At least we're not as bad as some Rush forums

Honestly, though, some Rush fans are all about "OMG nothing after MP is good!" or "The 80's synth period sucks, and Counterparts is the only worthwhile album after 1981", etc. etc. Granted, these are broad generalizations that some fans have seen, but the same can also be said of DT fans as well...except...those generalizations aren't anywhere NEAR as bad, but there are a lot of COMMON dislikes among fans: WDADU tends to be put down because it's their only album without JLB and the production is lackluster; FII for being "too commercial"; TOT for being too metal and not Rush/Prog-enough; 8VM for wearing its influences on its sleeves too proudly; SC for being too corny lyrically, not to mention JP's rampant 'borrowing' or lyrical content without crediting; BC&SL for having too many long songs with filler in them; ADTOE for being an IAW-copycat (In some fans' eyes/ears...)...

So really, there will always be groups of fans who are vocal against (AND FOR) some albums/songs. But this doesn't mean they aren't fans. In fact, would they even BE HERE if they weren't fans??

-Marc.

[stellarnight]

Well i would say that the very diversity of DT albums are in itself a strength and a curse. While there are people like the OP who likes every song, there are also fans who only like certain part of DT's repertoire. Some of my friends pretty much only dig DT's heavier side and they think I & W is bad (Sacrilege I know!). I personally like almost everything except WDnDU and SC because i am someone who fell in love with DT's diversity.

Sometimes there is disappointment when expectations does not meet realities which will always happen because everyone's expectations are different. Like i said, some fans expect an I&WII while others want more Metal. After all DTF is a FORUM and on forums, we share our personal opinions and expectations and occasionally get into a scuffle with each other   Like DT, diversity of opinions is what i consider a strength of DT fans. I am barely a musician, certainly tone-deaf but i enjoy reading comments by fans who commented on snare sound, mixing and musical theories. The only "fan" which i think everyone can agree to be not a real "fan" is someone who just whines about DT without giving a concrete reason or something silly like "OMG bring Portnoy back", "DT is selling out because they are becoming too POPULAR".

Oh btw, DT12 is awesome:D

[Ħ]

Negative opinions stand out the most.

There are lots of fans on here, OP. Reception to the new album has been extremely positive.

[Jaffa]

It's the trash talk that surprised me.

"oh, I liked everything up until (album) and nothing since" isn't trash talk, it's a calmly stated opinion.  There's a huge difference.  Trash talk and outright bashing are actually against the forum rules here.  Calmly stated opinions, on the other hand, are always welcome, whether they're positive or negative. 

Also, this forum is a fan site, but that doesn't mean it has to be some exclusive club that you can only get into by liking a certain amount of the band's material. 

[hefdaddy42]

This is a bizarre thread, considering reaction to the new album has been pretty damn positive.  Almost overwhelmingly so. 

This, WTF.

I have no idea what forum you've been looking at, but it doesn't sound like this one.

At any rate, we have some fans who absolutely love everything DT has done, but they are a minority.  Most of the rest of us are actual human beings.  And we don't really have that many haters who post a lot.  Everyone has certain songs or even albums they aren't crazy about, and most fans seem to have preferences (however big) for one era or another, but that's human nature.

So, I dunno what to tell you.  The band likes this site, so that's good enough for me.

[wolfking]

Im asking seriously.
Okay, I'm brand spankin' new here, but I was under the assumption that this is a fan site.
All I've seen, thus far, is complaints about this song or that album or which band member sucks ...
I don't get it. I've even read someone saying that they are bored by Dream Theater after multiple listens.
I have literally, no exaggeration, listened to DT every single day for the past three years.
While I have favorite songs and many of them change, I cannot say that there is one song that I dislike.
Am I really alone in this?

I don't really know where you are coming from with this.  I see a lot of positive discussion regarding the band and I know myself, most of what I post is positive.  And anything negative really is slamming the band or their work, it's just difference in opinions and why some people don't connect with songs as much as others do.

[ariich]

All I've seen, thus far, is complaints about this song or that album or which band member sucks ...

All you've seen? Really?

I'm not sure you've been paying much attention, if that's the case.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

One thing is interesting though and i'm only speaking for myself. I tend to visit general and music more than the whole DT section:




I'm not a heavy fan of DT but I do like them and have been following them for more than 10 years so i'm definitly a follower. Despite being very passionate about music in general I rarely bash or feel the need to talk negatively of something I don't like but if it's something I do like i'm often more outspoken. It's safe to say though that after being a member of DTF for 2 years i'm not still here because of my interest for DT.

[d-tailer]

  From one newbie to another, I'll hack a wise old saying: "When the listener is ready, the masters will appear". IMO DT are performing at a higher level than most other groups and there is no need to heap superlatives on what they create. The main point is that you are  fortunate enough to appreciate their brilliance.
It is assumed that all members have joined the forum to share relevant opinions (+ or -) about DT and their collective works, and you can just filter out any negative views you disagree with.

[425]

I'm one of the fans who likes practically every song the band has put out. And I have no issue with other people being critical or having negative opinions of some songs or albums and expressing those opinion while still being fans of the band. And I do not get the impression that the overwhelming majority of comments are negative. Sometimes people will belabor one issue for too long and in too many different threads and I say so when I think that, but really, this is not a negative place.

[TL]

I have to say, coming onto a fan forum that is mostly quite positive about the band in question, and berating everyone here for not being real fans because of a small degree of criticism, seems kind of dickish. Not really making a good first impression there, Hanz. You're kind of being an asshole.