Luna Park gives Black Couds the elbow

[Prog Snob]

Why can't I hear JM in the mix? 

[Kotowboy]

She can't hear JM ? Maybe they ARE playing a Black Clouds song !

[BlobVanDam]

She can't hear JM ? Maybe they ARE playing a Black Clouds song !

I've never had any problem hearing JM on that album. He's actually cranked on ANTR. The bass is in a really low frequency though, so you need a good frequency response to make it out. It's not well balanced for the average low end sound system.

If anything, it's BMUBMD! That's probably the lowest bass mix of any DT song, I'd say. It's AJFA bad.

[Kotowboy]

I listened to A Dramatic Turn again recently and it just seems to sound rushed. Not playing wise but - it's really "demo" sounding.

It makes me wonder if they wrote and recorded it quickly so as to get something with MM out ASAP. The songs are great but the production is

not brilliant and sounds not a million miles away from Systematic Chaos - in that kind of "boxy" lifeless way.

[BlobVanDam]

I listened to A Dramatic Turn again recently and it just seems to sound rushed. Not playing wise but - it's really "demo" sounding.

It makes me wonder if they wrote and recorded it quickly so as to get something with MM out ASAP. The songs are great but the production is

not brilliant and sounds not a million miles away from Systematic Chaos - in that kind of "boxy" lifeless way.

I don't know. They had a different person on mixing, and a different producer combo (JP, instead of MP/JP as on previous albums), so any number of factors could have contributed to it sounding different.

Maybe MP was the more involved in the mixing of the two producers. Or maybe they just consciously wanted ADTOE to sound that way. Whatever the reason, I have trouble listening to the album because of how it sounds.

That's one reason I'm most interested in getting LALP, to hear the ADTOE tracks with a better and heavier mix.

[Kotowboy]

I like rock albums to be airy and wide and spacious.

I love the way Octavarium sounds. I keep coming back to - it sounds like it was recorded *outside* - whereas SC sounds like it was recorded

in a totally dead room.



** Especially " These Walls. "

[Kotowboy]

  Just put on " These Walls " and that outro with the orchestra still gives me huge chills. Best Outro ever.

[BlobVanDam]

Just put on " These Walls " and that outro with the orchestra still gives me huge chills. Best Outro ever.

Just did that yesterday. I'm glad we'll be getting a good live recording of that song on LALP.

[Prog Snob]

Just put on " These Walls " and that outro with the orchestra still gives me huge chills. Best Outro ever.

Very cool outro indeed. 

[efx]

These Walls is such a fantastic song, a real gem. And yeah, that outro just...unbeliveable.

[Kotowboy]

The first four songs on Octavarium are really fun to drum as well as it's mostly 4/4 and 6/8. With some 5 sprinkled in there too.

[The Curious Orange]

The first European leg of the ADTOE tour saw them play "The Count of Tuscany", and it was a much better performance than on the BC&SL tour.
They played a track from EVERY album up to that point, so I don't think it's fair to accuse the new line-up of ignoring any period of the band's history.
Yes, not all of those songs made it to the DVD filming - so what?

I'd love to see a future live release include "Wither" and "The Count of Tuscany", but I think it might be unlikely.
In fact, I'd love to see more quality live CD releases from the band - The Ytse Jam releases were "under-produced" to put it kindly.
Two CD releases from each tour would be ideal - one from the start of each tour, one from the end once the set list has rotated through.
Marillion can do this - whay can't DT?

[Cool Chris]

In response to thread title... good.

[Ben_Jamin]

I listened to A Dramatic Turn again recently and it just seems to sound rushed. Not playing wise but - it's really "demo" sounding.

It makes me wonder if they wrote and recorded it quickly so as to get something with MM out ASAP. The songs are great but the production is

not brilliant and sounds not a million miles away from Systematic Chaos - in that kind of "boxy" lifeless way.

That is a problem I have with both ADTOE and DT12, too many great ideas not fleshed out more makes it sound rushed,  one reason I can't get into The Looking Glass.

Since this current tour is evening with, 2sets and encore, I have a feeling they'll bust out ANTR as the 2nd set opener.

[Kotowboy]

DT12 doesn't sound rushed to me - I think it's their strongest material since Octavarium.

But I can totally understand why A Dramatic Turn Of Events would tread the " more familiar " path.

A change of member and a new direction all at once might have been too much in one go.

[Ben_Jamin]

DT12 doesn't sound rushed to me - I think it's their strongest material since Octavarium.

But I can totally understand why A Dramatic Turn Of Events would tread the " more familiar " path.

A change of member and a new direction all at once might have been too much in one go.

I'm listening to DT12 again with earphones, its mainly the ending to The Looking Glass I feel is rushed or more like abrupt. It couldve used the intro again, or something like how AFIL ends.

[Nekov]

Well, i've tried looking - but - I can't seem to find a 2DVD 3CD version of LALP on *DVD*.

Does it even exist ?

Unfortunately not

It does now. It wasn't in the site before but clearly they read your comments

Edit: It depends on the country. For the US it is available but it isn't for Argentina (If you filmed it there one would guess you would offer all the options...)

[BlobVanDam]

I listened to A Dramatic Turn again recently and it just seems to sound rushed. Not playing wise but - it's really "demo" sounding.

It makes me wonder if they wrote and recorded it quickly so as to get something with MM out ASAP. The songs are great but the production is

not brilliant and sounds not a million miles away from Systematic Chaos - in that kind of "boxy" lifeless way.

That is a problem I have with both ADTOE and DT12, too many great ideas not fleshed out more makes it sound rushed,  one reason I can't get into The Looking Glass.

I don't get that feeling from ADTOE at all, but I get that feeling from DT12. Every song is packed with great musical ideas, but I feel they're concise to the point of sometimes not feeling completely fleshed out to me. Even a couple of extra bars at the end of TLG would have helped a lot. It has no ending!

[Kotowboy]

Overall though - I definitely prefer an album of eight 8 - 12 minute songs instead of six 15 minute songs.

An album of epics really drags. Especially when the two "shorter" songs are not that great.


If DT did an album of five 15 minute songs - those 5 songs would have to be near flawless to provide longevity.

[BlobVanDam]

They managed 6 perfect longer songs on SDOIT, so it can be done.

I like variety though. DT12 actually feels too samey to me for song lengths, and overall too short for DT these days. I liked the balance on ADTOE for song lengths though.

[Kotowboy]

SDOIT has only two songs over 12 minutes.

The second disc - whilst collectively is 42 mins is still made up of 8 shorter songs that make it more manageable.

I'm saying that if they did an album which was five individual 15:00 songs - they'd have to be damn good.

I loved BC&SL for a long time after it was released but now I hardly even put it on.

[BlobVanDam]

96 minutes divided by 6 is 16 minutes average per song. SDOIT is not made of shorter songs. It IS a song.

[Kotowboy]

96 minutes divided by 6 is 16 minutes average per song. SDOIT is not made of shorter songs. It IS a song.

It can be argued either way. It's 8 songs on the CD but 1 song on Score.

[BlobVanDam]

96 minutes divided by 6 is 16 minutes average per song. SDOIT is not made of shorter songs. It IS a song.

It can be argued either way. It's 8 songs on the CD but 1 song on Score.

It's 8 tracks on the CD, but it's very clearly labelled as the 6th song of the album. It was one track on Score to make it very clear that it's a song, and it was only split on the CD because it's so damn long.

[Grizz]

Officially, the band has stated it to be one song of 8 movements that are separated out on CD for easier navigation.

[Prog Snob]

96 minutes divided by 6 is 16 minutes average per song. SDOIT is not made of shorter songs. It IS a song.

It can be argued either way. It's 8 songs on the CD but 1 song on Score.

It's 8 tracks on the CD, but it's very clearly labelled as the 6th song of the album. It was one track on Score to make it very clear that it's a song, and it was only split on the CD because it's so damn long.

Sort of like A Pleasant Shade of Gray, except that didn't have actual song titles but part numbers.

[The Letter M]

True that SDOIT, the album, is 6 songs with the titular piece being the sixth and final songs, especially as defined by the hand and the album artwork, but leaves me wondering...

...the back of the album for SFAM lists 9 track times, one for each Scene. The album itself is composed of 9 scenes but 3 of those have 2 movements each, much like SDOIT (the song) is one song with 8 movements. Would this legitimately mean that SFAM is technically 9 songs/scenes while being 12 tracks?

With that in mind, I made my own version of SFAM (the complete Bottrill mixes) with the original intro, the released album's outdo, and other things all mixed in, but all cut into 9 scenes/songs/tracks, just to make it equal what the artwork defined the album to be - 9 songs.

-Marc.

[Rodni Demental]

WDaDU grows on you if you want to like it. And there are so many versions of those songs (some good some very baaad), there are certainly some real killer performances with James on these older tracks if you look. On that note, I'm certainly interested to hear a 2012 version of A Fortune in Lies. I know it's arguable been DTs most played When Dream and Day Unite song but it's also the easiest one to get into save for maybe The Killing Hand? Anyway, some of us are practically ready to start crossing off a new checklist of songs we want to hear live and we have to start again because we wanna hear the Mike Mangini versions. That's why I'm psyched to see/hear some other oldies like 6:00 and Caught in a Web.

Also, The Silent Man, Wait for Sleep and Surrounded could be fairly interesting aswell because these songs have been known to evolve in different ways over the years.

[ytserush]

Yes, the Pictures film was a disaster and the cartoon things was a part of that. As far as I am aware the band had little or no input into that. By the way, the second ed of the ELP book The Show That Never Ends is now out - which I co-wrote  - couldn't resist the plug.

I'm still looking for the first edition. Unless the second has updated stuff of course.

[DebraKadabra]

In response to thread title... good.

[Sycsa]

96 minutes divided by 6 is 16 minutes average per song. SDOIT is not made of shorter songs. It IS a song.

It can be argued either way. It's 8 songs on the CD but 1 song on Score.

It's 8 tracks on the CD, but it's very clearly labelled as the 6th song of the album. It was one track on Score to make it very clear that it's a song, and it was only split on the CD because it's so damn long.

Pointless and old argument, but there are concept albums that are more cohesive than SDOIT, the song.