Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[rush-signals]

The feed keeps stopping on me and I can't restart it 

[GasparXR]

Someone explain to me what "Luminol" is, because I don't get it. XD

[Ħ]

Luminol is a song by Steven Wilson that has a spacey middle section just like IT does.

[GasparXR]

Luminol is a song by Steven Wilson that has a spacey middle section just like IT does.

Shit. I totally spaced out on that one.

[Ħ]

TFW you try to air guitar The Enemy Inside and fail miserably.

TFW you try to headbang to Enigma Machine and fail miserably.

TFW Dream Theater.

[DTFan0789]

Perhaps I'm just caught up in the excitement of the new release, but at the moment I think that this very well could be the best work of their career. Yeah.

[JPX]

So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:

1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory

2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.

OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album?  Just curious.

People and there opinions and how important they think they are that they have to say the same things over and over.

Actually if you've been paying attention there's no repetition.

I also hope that you recognize that I am giving this album every opportunity. I have listened to it 20+ times from start to finish. As I've stated before, DT is by far my favorite band...EVER... and they deserve more than me dismissing this record after just a few listens.

Therefore there isn't repetition, there's an evolution.

If you want me to shut up then that's fine. But I'm going thru a process here and purely verbalizing it. I'm sorry if it bothers you because the opinion isn't shared.

I'd be happy to make a list of passages that I love in this record. It just happens to be a shame that they are outweighed by the bad passages TO ME. This is further emphasized when a section I love is ruined by something that I find particularly abrasive. I guess I'm just used to DT delivering on a more consistent basis and I've become complacent.

[Polis]

 New album rankings:

Awake
DT12
Train of Thought
Images
FII
Octavarium
ADTOE
Scenes
Six Degrees
BCASL
SC
WDADU

[Super Dude]

Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!

Considering that yours is probably the rudest post in the thread, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Still, there could be a little more respect on both sides. I know you've already had to warn a guy for making "" posts at anyone posting things marginally critical of the album.

[King Postwhore]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

[JPX]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

[LCArenas]

Jeez, first time that I listened to it and there's so much to listen and discover. Illumination Theory was... Curious. I think I need it to digest it for a while. I didn't like some parts and some parts just blew my mind. I feel this is the first DT album since SFAM that doesn't give me a favourable or unfavourable impression right away. Need to adjust my ears to it... And of course, to hear it with a better sound. Only song that gave me a bad taste for the first time was Enigma Machine, and it wasn't that bad.

It's a strange feeling, I don't know if I'm the only one.

[hefdaddy42]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

OK.

[fllnsprrw]

I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...

[Polis]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif

[jammindude]

I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...

<never mind....it wasn't that funny>

[Ben_Jamin]

I listened to False Awakening Suite....what a great opener.

[Zyzzyva17]

A little statistical factoid: Illumination Theory has just under 5 minutes of sections with vocals, giving it the smallest vocal/instrumental ratio of any Dream Theater song. Not counting the instrumentals, of course. I haven't calculated the exact numbers for the new album yet, although I have them for every other album.

[theseoafs]

Interesting.  I was just thinking about how little time James seems to be singing in IT -- parts 1 and 3 are instrumental, and in parts 4 and 5, there just isn't that much singing.  And yet, James is still one of the highlights of the song. 

[eviljust]

I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...

Oh I really feel you, man.
I liked it from the very beginning, but Surrender To Reason just wasn't the one I expected. So I was just disappointed. Yesterday I started to listen to it, suddenly something changed. Like it was the first time I was listening to it. I felt that it was exactly perfect in the context of the album and that had great lyrics and that was so emotional that "Restless angels" part.

Interesting.  I was just thinking about how little time James seems to be singing in IT -- parts 1 and 3 are instrumental, and in parts 4 and 5, there just isn't that much singing.  And yet, James is still one of the highlights of the song. 

True enough. He could sing even a single minute and give us goosebumps for the whole minute. So emotional.

[hefdaddy42]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif

I don't know that there is any reason for ridiculing him.  He's just being honest about his feelings.  If you can't do that here, where can you do it?

[commanderbob]

I also hope that you recognize that I am giving this album every opportunity. I have listened to it 20+ times from start to finish. As I've stated before, DT is by far my favorite band...EVER... and they deserve more than me dismissing this record after just a few listens.

Therefore there isn't repetition, there's an evolution.

If you want me to shut up then that's fine. But I'm going thru a process here and purely verbalizing it. I'm sorry if it bothers you because the opinion isn't shared.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

Well, if this is true, then I really get how you might be "mourning" in this way.  I'm also sorta touched by an awesome real encounter by 2 sides that vehemently disagree on an internet forum.  I honestly don't mean to suppress anyone's opinion.  It's sorta how I love my kids but sometimes I just want them to stop talking and go to their room, or go outside and play.

So anywho, I would suggest we all party together: we'll be drinking our Harp and Guinness and Heineken with stoooopid grins on our faces, and you guys can nurse your diet cokes kinda wishing that beer tasted yummy like it used to.  And maybe a little less electricity in your criticisms would help us all talk it out.

[King Postwhore]

I will back off.  Sometime really strong opinions, on both side irate me.  It's dealing with people in real life like that irks me.

[Podaar]

This has been an interesting and even inspirational conversation about opinions. I'm happy to read JPX process his negative feelings toward the album and have noticed an ever so slight slide up. Even if his reasons makes me shake my head. 

What I think may be helpful to those who post is not to stake a position where it's Dream Theater's "fault". That is off putting in both directions I think. Lets face it, we feel the way we feel because of the sum of our experiences and the place we're in at the moment. Prog music has always been that way and thus not as popular as other genres. If your not receptive to the concept it will just sound busy. It's not that it's bad music or that everyone who enjoys it is daft it's more about you (the listener not JPX specifically). Hey, if this were easy, DT would be the richest band in the world! 

[Super Dude]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif

@ Bosk: This is what I'm talking about.

[Another_Won]

A little statistical factoid: Illumination Theory has just under 5 minutes of sections with vocals, giving it the smallest vocal/instrumental ratio of any Dream Theater song. Not counting the instrumentals, of course. I haven't calculated the exact numbers for the new album yet, although I have them for every other album.

Cool.  I'd be interested in seeing more of your numbers.

[RuRoRul]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

I'm not one that dislikes the album and it does get tiring seeing constant bashing on forums (e.g. posts about SC, BC&SL which no one complains about), but I'm pretty sure almost everyone is basically repeating their slightly updated opinion in different words but no one minds if it's positive.

[Prog Snob]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.

OK.

Well, he did say please. 

[RodrigoAltaf]

This part here is worth the full album alone:

"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days

If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone

Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright
Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know the joy in life" 

I´m listening to it now, and cannot think of a DT song that moved me in such a way since at least Octavarium.

[Thematt202]

Agreed.  The end of TBP is similarly moving to me.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?

[wasteland]

I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?

I was thinking about this yesterday. "the joy or life" or "that you are alive"? Come hither, o people-with-booklets!

[King Postwhore]

Actually you have.  you've bashed it from the beginning JPX.  You can change the words but the story is the same.  I'm ok with people not liking it.  I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.

I'm not one that dislikes the album and it does get tiring seeing constant bashing on forums (e.g. posts about SC, BC&SL which no one complains about), but I'm pretty sure almost everyone is basically repeating their slightly updated opinion in different words but no one minds if it's positive.

You should really read my earlier post where I say I'm tired of both good and bad and the repetitive posts about the album.  Not just the bad posts.

[Onno]

I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?

That is right.

I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?

I was thinking about this yesterday. "the joy or life" or "that you are alive"? Come hither, o people-with-booklets!

The first bit in that movement (V. Surrender, Trust & Passion) starts with "To really feel the joy in life you must suffer through the pain". The last bit is exactly like Rodrigo said.

[RodrigoAltaf]