Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[Zook]

@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.

And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.

[chwik]

Since the JP forum is Down and there is no other place to discuss JP's playing...what say ye?

I think he took his playing to a new level again! That solo in Behind the vail!

[snapple]

@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.

And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.

I think it's fun. I haven't heard the Symphony X one, either.

[chrisbDTM]

i hear alot of textbook DT on this album but happy to see some different moments

[bosk1]

Here goes - hopefully it generates some discussion. None of this is meant to bash the band - I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. My opinions are also subject to change - these are my FIRST impressions.

Quite a good post, actually.  I disagree with most of it, but hey, we can't all agree on everything.  As I read through your points, there were things I flat out disagreed with, and others where my reaction was more, "I don't feel that at all, but I can see where you are coming from."  Not worth responding to it all, but just a couple of quick points.

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Oculus ex Inferni.
4/10

Well, I mean, I kind of get where you are coming from.  I wouldn't put it on par with any of the full-blown songs on the album.  But then again, it isn't meant to be put on par with a "regular song" either.  It's just an intro to set the mood before the actual songs start.  And IMO, it does a pretty good job at that.  Is it necessary?  No.  Is it something that I would ever listen to by itself outside the context of the album?  No.  But is it something that, by its inclusion, makes the album better by giving a good "setup" before getting into the songs proper?  IMO, absolutely yes.

Jame LaBrie
It seems to me that James now just has two modes, his breathy ballad vocals and his mid range heavier vocals. He never was the most dynamic vocalist but this record makes me wish DT had more to offer in this department.
2/10

I disagree wholeheartedly here.  Does James go uber high on this album?  For the most part, no.  Does he go way out on a limb with some very different vocal styles or effects?  No.  But his vocal lines sound really good to me.  And, to my ears, there are a lot more of the soaring vocal lines that were so much a part of his signature sound, which I feel has not been represented as well on recent albums.  I honestly feel these songs play to James' strenghts as a vocalist VERY well--much more so than anything in recent memory.

[jammindude]

@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.

And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.

Won't even?  I just heard about it for the first time today!   

These are like the arguments my wife is making because I said I'd do the laundry 5 minutes ago.......so why isn't it DONE!!!!!





































no...seriously...i have to go do laundry now.   brb

[Shadow2222]

Zook...just for you...I'll wipe the dust off V and try another few spins.  (I *always* give everything I listen to "the five spin rule"....but sometimes it takes more...or sometimes it's just bad timing.)

Obviously you already have V, but I'd recommend listening to the Odyssey (just the title track, for now), and all of Paradise Lost to ease into Symphony X.

Paradise Lost is amazing, and I don't much care for V either.

[theseoafs]

no...seriously...i have to go do laundry now.   brb

[atmyne]

Yeah so I wen't into this album with no expectations, it went over my head initially, and now i'm in love. I really hope DT make more songs like through the looking glass and surrender to reason in the future. Ilumination Theory is actually great once you start to digest it.
The only thing that bug me on this album are the solo tradoffs between jordan and John. They are the low points on the album for me.

[SystematicThought]

I really can't wait to read the lyrics, especially IT.

IT has some great vocal melodies, the Consider this question part especially I thought was catchy

[Ravenfoul]

Illumination Theory positively blew me away. I can see why some people would be put off by the ambient piece of the song though, I liked it regardless - but can definitely understand why that would detract to some.

JLB did extremely well in my opinion.

[noxon]

did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it

It's the drum solo in enigma machine. the scat was a vocalized representation of how the drum solo should sound, ie a template.

[wolven74]

I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.

[alexofsweden]

It feels like the fans who started to listen to DT in the Train of Thought era "dislike"/doesn´t get this album...and those who started at I&W fkin loves it 

Btw... IT: 11:24 who said AWAKE 

[Zook]

I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.

You missed Lat's posts.

[chrisbDTM]

i SO wish the part @ 1:02- 1:08 in FAS lasted longer. my eyes widened at that section


im gonna wait for the actual CD to listen to IT. the rest is fair game. are these weird rules im setting for myself? absolutely

[theseoafs]

I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.

You must not have been looking very closely.  Plenty of people think that IT doesn't work well as a single 19-minute song.  (Not me, but some people do.)

[krieger]

-"The Enemy Inside" is a lot better than I originally thought. It works very well in its spot on the album.

Yes, I'm enjoying it a lot more, now. People are complaining about the False Awakening Suite, but it's obviously an intro... this is the way intros are made... 

I believe the album will be a grower. Not yet on my TOP 5, but maybe it'll be.

[ProAlbino]

Does anyone else feel that the pre-chorus/chorus for "Behind the Veil" just completely ruin the song? Like, I was headbanging to this groovin' riff, and then this stupid clean guitar section just pops in, and it absolutely killed it for me.

[Marion Crane]

I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.

I wouldn't call IT "great".  I thought it was pretty good with a few great moments.  The noise part was completely unnecessary and the lyrics throughout the end were extremely preachy.  The lart after the orchestra was probably my favorite section on the entire album though.  Everyone, James included, was at the top of their game.

All in all though, I highly doublt it will ever eclipse TCOT, 6DOIT, ACOS or ITPOE for me

[ariich]

Some further thoughts:

I think the lyrics on this album are really nice on the whole! Definitely more spiritual, some great topics, and nice execution. I'm someone who has been mostly happy with DT's lyrics the whole time, but personally I think JP is best when he presents his thoughts in a way that is maybe persuasive but ultimately lets us make our own minds up, and I think he does a really nice job on this album.

The riffs in Illumination Theory are amazing. I can see this being my favourite off the album.

MM is a monster.

JLB does a great job throughout the album. I've never been that fond of his high wailing and much prefer his more serious and emotive singing, and I think he sounds great on this album.

[alexofsweden]

1. I&W
2. Dream Theater
3. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
4. Scenes From A Memory
5. Awake
6. Octavarium (mainly because of the song Octavarium)
7. Falling Into Infinity
8. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
9. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
10. Train Of Thought
11. When Dream And Day Unite
12. Systematic Chaos


Best DT song: A Change Of Season

[MarkFitDT]

Im SO in love with The Looking Glass.   

[Zantera]

1. Scenes From a Memory
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Awake
4. Images & Words
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Dream Theater
7. Train of Thought
8. A Dramatic Turn of Events
9. Octavarium
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11. Systematic Chaos
12. When Dream and Day Unite

[Ħ]

you are caught up in your graaaaaaaaaaaaviity
glorifying madness
singing your own praise
you live without SHAAAaaame
you're digging up a gold mine
standing on the sidelines
watching through the looking glass

[emtee]

I think everyone in the band shares in an equal amount of props for this. Everyone shines when asked to shine and everyone
shows restraint when it helps the song(s). So far the biggest 'feel' difference between this and recent DT output is JR's
change in approach. He really does a great job of creating a mood, or painting a scene if you will and lays off the uber fast
techno playing. I'm only 1 DT fan but I sure as hell appreciate this approach. I also feel like there is no unnecessary wanking
for the sake of making a song longer. Everything feels 'right'.

[alexofsweden]

The Looking Glass could be the most interesting song DT made since Awake era...talk about "stepping out of the box". Such a great song, such a great chorus = "you live without shame" ...gives me fkin goosbumps!!!!! 

[matte.braso]

It's the drum solo in enigma machine. the scat was a vocalized representation of how the drum solo should sound, ie a template.

thanks!

[krands85]

I just wrote out an enormous post on my thoughts about the album. But it's far too long and ultimately a bit pointless, since I've only listened to it twice and that's nowhere near enough time for me to judge a single song, let alone a whole album. So for now, I'll just list my early track rankings instead:

1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. The Enemy Inside
4. False Awakening
5. Engima Machine
6. Along for the Ride
7. The Bigger Picture
8. Behind the Veil
9. The Looking Glass

I guess everyone noticed the transcribed midi thing that someone on here made from one of the studio vids?  Was really cool hearing that again in FAS.

[Hanz Gruber]

Dream Theater will always be my favorite band but I have to say I am disappointed after 1 listen.

I like what they were attempting to do.  I have been wanting them to go back to putting shorter more focused songs on an album for a while now while trimming the fat.  (Much like they did on Awake or even Falling to Infinity in where the epic songs like Trial of Tears and  Trial Of Tears didn't feel like they needed trimming)

To my ears most of these songs are not very catchy or memorable. 

I liked The Bigger Picture and Along for the Ride the best but I actually enjoyed the ADTOE far more.  Something like Beneath the Surface blows these ballads away IMO.  Also nothing on this album compares to Breaking All Illusions.

I would personally rank their albums something like this

1 Images
2 Scenes
3 Awake
4 Falling
5 Six Degrees
6 Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
7 ADTOE
8 Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
9 A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
10 Black Clouds
11 SC
12 ToT
13 DT (Self Titled)
14 WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice so I have to rank this the lowest)

Hopefully it will move up after repeated listens but I honestly don't think it will much.

Still a huge fan and still buying it and I think it is quality and see why others love it.  It just unfortunately doesn't do it for me (as of yet) even though I want to love it.

[alexofsweden]

Dream Theater will always be my favorite band but I have to say I am disappointed after 1 listen.

I like what they were attempting to do.  I have been wanting them to go back to putting shorter more focused songs on an album for a while now while trimming the fat.  (Much like they did on Awake or even Falling to Infinity in where the epic songs like Trial of Tears and  Trial Of Tears didn't feel like they needed trimming)

To my ears most of these songs are not very catchy or memorable. 

I liked The Bigger Picture and Along for the Ride the best but I actually enjoyed the ADTOE far more.  Something like Beneath the Surface blows these ballads away IMO.  Also nothing on this album compares to Breaking All Illusions.

I would personally rank their albums something like this

Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)

Hopefully it will move up after repeated listens but I honestly don't think it will much.

Still a huge fan and still buying and I think it is quality.  It just unfortunately doesn't do it for (as of yet) even though I want to love it.

You need to listen 2-3 times, then you´ll go 

[YtseCullen]

The Looking Glass is so wicked! Can't get that out of my head. This album just absolutely kicked me in the ass. It's so good! My expectations lowered after I heard AFTR, but coming in today the rest of the album just absolutely was incredible and everything works so much better in context. Dream Theater seems to be back to what they were creativity wise with where they were at around the SDOIT period. That was honestly exactly what I was wishing for. SO pumped on this album holy balls 

[ReaperKK]

Trial of Tears vibe on The Looking Glass solo.

Shame about the chorus though, COMPLETELY ruins the song.

I'm late in listening and posting this but I noticed this almost immediately. Great track.

[MarkFitDT]

Seriously, I dont understand how anyone can judge DT after one listen!

[evz]

I think everyone in the band shares in an equal amount of props for this. Everyone shines when asked to shine and everyone
shows restraint when it helps the song(s). So far the biggest 'feel' difference between this and recent DT output is JR's
change in approach. He really does a great job of creating a mood, or painting a scene if you will and lays off the uber fast
techno playing. I'm only 1 DT fan but I sure as hell appreciate this approach. I also feel like there is no unnecessary wanking
for the sake of making a song longer. Everything feels 'right'.

yeah great observation on JR... well all of what you said really