Along for the Ride Discussion Thread

[emtee]

That sounds much better to me. Cool.

Guitar sounds especially crisp.

Excellent.

Liking the song better and better each day.

[aprilethereal]

I feel JR has read this thread:

“To all the great "experts" out there: The Soundcloud Along for the Ride stream is an audio teaser and quite low sound resolution! #critic“



Edit: I should do so too...

[GasparXR]

Dating myself - but who else remembers the big fuss about the snare sound when A Change of Seasons came out?

Edit: This was in the days of the ytsejam mailing list...

Funny you mentioned that, because the first time I listened to ACOS I thought the snare was too snappy. I got used to it though.

I agree with the people who said that the sound of the snare is exactly what MM and/or JP wanted it to sound like, being that they've had pretty much 100% creative control over their music since 1999. I wasn't expecting the same snare sound to appear on AFTR, but I grew used to it. I admit that the compression throws me off a bit, because the quiet section at the beginning has the same loudness as the later parts, but I'm expecting a high-quality download (if there is one released) or the CD quality to be slightly less compressed, as was the case with TEI with the pre-order download.

[RodrigoAltaf]

The youtube post sounds MUCH better!!!


And I don´t have the slightest bit of complaint about the snare sound. The drums sound great to these ears.

[OsMosis2259]

If people still say that they can't hear the cymbals then they really need to get their ears checked...

Love the hi hat work MM is doing. 

[TL]

Regarding the snare sound, I don't think anyone here thinks it was a 'mistake' on their end, or that they were in any way forced to use that sound. Some of us just find it to be a weird creative decision.
My reason for disliking it isn't that it's 'different' from other DT. I just don't think it was a good choice for this kind of song. That's just my opinion.

With the cymbals, when people say they can't hear them, it doesn't necessarily mean that they literally can't hear any cymbals on the track; rather, it's that the cymbals are weaker in the mix than they should be.

It's not a dealbreaker. I still like the song, and am still very excited for the album. It just gets really annoying when any criticism is met with condescending comments about how anyone saying anything remotely negative is doing so for trivial reasons, or is objectively wrong or something. Again, I like the song. Why is it unreasonable to be disappointed that a good song is being hindered a bit by certain production elements?

Edit:

I admit that the compression throws me off a bit, because the quiet section at the beginning has the same loudness as the later parts, but I'm expecting a high-quality download (if there is one released) or the CD quality to be slightly less compressed

A lower bitrate doesn't change the mastering compression or track volume.
The thing to hope for is that the 5.1/DVD Stereo masters are better.

[Kotowboy]

The drums sound like Black Clouds & Silver Linings but the cymbals *are* a little low in the mix...

[Mebert78]

I've been listening to the song nonstop the past two days and the drums still feel to me like demo drums that made it to the final version.  I get that the band was perhaps trying to recapture the I&W drum trigger sound, but it falls flat here, in my opinion.  It sounds like a plastic bucket, as someone else stated.  I really think the band is gonna regret this creative choice, because people are gonna continue to rip it for years to come, if you ask me.  That being said, I love DT and if this is the drum sound they wanted then I will learn to embrace it, I'm sure.  It will take me a little while though.

However, I'm a little concerned that Richard Chycki might have nudged DT to use this drum sound.  The band hasn't done anything like this since I&W, and then suddenly they revert to triggered drums?  Why?  Is it a coincidence that it coincides with Richard Chycki's first time enginnering and mixing with DT?  I don't know the guy or his work history, but it seems odd to me.  I hope he didn't talk DT into doing this in some way and straying for their past winning formula.  I'm just speculating, of course. 

[TL]

Do we know for sure that the drums were triggered? People keep mentioning it, but I haven't heard a thing about this from any actual source.

Just from listening to them, I could believe either possibility (they are or they aren't). Honestly, I'm not discounting the possibility that Mike Mangini is just that precise in his playing.

[Lucidity]

I can't really figure out the time signatures for the guitar intro...

[Groundhog]

I don't know if the flat drums are because of the actual recorded drum sound or is it just the amount of compression applied on the drums and the whole track. I mean when the acoustic intro is as loud as the drums are then how can the drums have any punch? By the chugga chugga part the drums loses even more punch they had earlier and gets completely buried. Listen to the snare on that part. There's absolutely no power to it anymore. And yes Youtube at best sounds bad and those Soundcloud streams are even worse. That said the stream of OTBOA was dynamically overcompressed and so was the youtube stream and finally on the cd it was still lacking the dynamic range. Same happened with AROP. So if the history repeats the cd will only offer more resolution but flat drums and lack of punch will remain.

The positive side is that I'm getting more into the song and musically it just sounds the better the more I listen to it and I'm even warming up more for TEI. So I'm really optimistic about the songwriting on the rest of the album.

Ever since I heard the comment that they think that the loudness war is stupid from Jordan before BC&SL came out I've been wishing that it would somehow be reflected on the sound of their albums. But that day has not yet come...

[goo-goo]

I've been listening to the song nonstop the past two days and the drums still feel to me like demo drums that made it to the final version.  I get that the band was perhaps trying to recapture the I&W drum trigger sound, but it falls flat here, in my opinion.  It sounds like a plastic bucket, as someone else stated.  I really think the band is gonna regret this creative choice, because people are gonna continue to rip it for years to come, if you ask me.  That being said, I love DT and if this is the drum sound they wanted then I will learn to embrace it, I'm sure.  It will take me a little while though.

However, I'm a little concerned that Richard Chycki might have nudged DT to use this drum sound.  The band hasn't done anything like this since I&W, and then suddenly they revert to triggered drums?  Why?  Is it a coincidence that it coincides with Richard Chycki's first time enginnering and mixing with DT?  I don't know the guy or his work history, but it seems odd to me.  I hope he didn't talk DT into doing this in some way and straying for their past winning formula.  I'm just speculating, of course.

As far as I know, the drums (at least the snare drum) was detuned...not triggered.

Call me crazy but maybe the drums themselves are the problem?? I have never been a fan of Pearl drums or Yamaha....they kind of sound stale, no punch, no depth. I prefer the DW or the Tama sound. They seem to have more power and depth. Granted, I've never played drums. I am only judging from the albums I have heard. It might be just me being stupid and not knowledgeable on the subject. Shadow Gallery's Tyranny is a musical bliss, but Joey Nevolo's snare is a Yamaha, and just sounds thin...Same for Jimmy Chamberlins Complex (although the yahama sound might suit better in a jazz/fusion environment like the JCC).

Richard Chycky also engineered JLB's Elements of Persuasion. Mike Mangini played in that album. The drums sound kind of triggered but I remember an interview with Rich saying they weren't. It was how they were recorded.

To those asking, Rich has engineered a lot of the latest live Rush albums, including their 5.1 mixes (IIRC, he only recorded Clockwork Angels...the producer Nick Radz (can't finish spelling his name) mixed and mastered CA). He's also worked with Aerosmith, Seal, Mick Jagger....

https://www.richardchycki.com/

[mikemangioy]

I can't really figure out the time signatures for the guitar intro...

it's 5/4 7/4 and then all 6/4.

[Filipe_metalhead]

I want to hear the song in the best quality (meaning on the record). But so far, for me it's a great song! Love it. It's useless to try not sing along with it...

It has sucha great I&W vibe... Cool tune! I'm sure that I'll love the album.

The drums are what fill the whole song. It's making the song very different... That's what's cool about it...

[ResultsMayVary]

Do we know for sure that the drums were triggered? People keep mentioning it, but I haven't heard a thing about this from any actual source.

Just from listening to them, I could believe either possibility (they are or they aren't). Honestly, I'm not discounting the possibility that Mike Mangini is just that precise in his playing.

My opinion is that he is just that precise.

[Mebert78]

As far as I know, the drums (at least the snare drum) was detuned...not triggered.

Call me crazy but maybe the drums themselves are the problem?? I have never been a fan of Pearl drums or Yamaha....they kind of sound stale, no punch, no depth. I prefer the DW or the Tama sound. They seem to have more power and depth. Granted, I've never played drums. I am only judging from the albums I have heard. It might be just me being stupid and not knowledgeable on the subject. Shadow Gallery's Tyranny is a musical bliss, but Joey Nevolo's snare is a Yamaha, and just sounds thin...Same for Jimmy Chamberlins Complex (although the yahama sound might suit better in a jazz/fusion environment like the JCC).

Richard Chycky also engineered JLB's Elements of Persuasion. Mike Mangini played in that album. The drums sound kind of triggered but I remember an interview with Rich saying they weren't. It was how they were recorded.

To those asking, Rich has engineered a lot of the latest live Rush albums, including their 5.1 mixes (IIRC, he only recorded Clockwork Angels...the producer Nick Radz (can't finish spelling his name) mixed and mastered CA). He's also worked with Aerosmith, Seal, Mick Jagger....

https://www.richardchycki.com/

Some good info here.  Thanks!  Chycki does have an impressive resume.  But still, DT was Grammy nominated for a song on their last album, so I don't get why they'd change any of the people they worked with.  Why not rehire Paul Northfield again?     

[Lucidity]

I mostly really like the song, but one part that I hate that I haven't seen anyone complain about yet is the guitar doing a complex pattern over the vocals after the nice soft chorus at the beginning. It's way too busy. It would sound so much nicer with power chords or something simpler and more graceful. I also hate the guitar chugging after that. It's so unnecessary... just because DT is a metal band doesn't mean they always need to do that... The song simply doesn't call for it.

[Outcrier]

I'm gonna say it again: Just wait till we can hear the entire album.

That wouldn't change the song, regardless of how it fits into the album.

I actually talking about "waiting to hear the other songs" and see how the album will "flow" with these two singles.
And, for people saying that they're playing safe, they're not fucking Ulver, Radiohead or even Opeth to try something totally different. They're pretty confortable with their music and don't want to change, like most well established bands. Personally, i would love if they tried another concept album, a symphonic work like SDOIT or even made a entire progressive rock album instead of metal but i know it's not gonna happen.

[evz]

I mostly really like the song, but one part that I hate that I haven't seen anyone complain about yet is the guitar doing a complex pattern over the vocals after the nice soft chorus at the beginning. It's way too busy. It would sound so much nicer with power chords or something simpler and more graceful.

I get what you are saying here, but I respectfully disagree; that's what every other band would do.  I love when DT does this kind of thing and makes it work. 

[ronrule]

I think the busy guitar in the verse could have a little less gain and be mixed slightly quieter, but otherwise I love it. Also love the heavy part.

[rumborak]

I actually think the guitar kinda saves those parts (along with JM's awesome bass).

Regarding the "audiophiles" here who judge the cymbals based on a compressed stream: Lol. Cymbals are always the first victim of audio compression because their spectrum is so erratic. An "audiophile" should really know that.

[GasparXR]

I can't really figure out the time signatures for the guitar intro...

it's 5/4 7/4 and then all 6/4.

The accents on the guitar might make it sound like that, but I think it's really just all 6/4. The first couple bars kind of create the illusion of 5/4 and 7/4, which adds up to two bars of 6/4.

[Lowdz]

Just a thought, but if the first songs I had heard from I&W had been UAGM and WFS I would probably never have become this huge DT fanboy.

Still enjoying this song. Trying not to overplay it. Synth solo still feels too familiar but I do find myself paying more attention to what JMx is doing anyway.
Anticipation is building so job done.
Just release the fecking thing already 

[jsem]

Ok, just gave this a listen. Meh. Jordan should ditch that solo patch.

[Vlasto]

ach folks....I'm so glad, I've got my own ears...I remember as praised was sound on ADTOE.
I was absolutely disappointed with flat, drown in sound (this CD is missing in my collection)

Here you're burying the record which is far better...  however the snare sounds, sound is clear, juice, full rich, spatial, amazing quitter, bass sections, audible crisp cymbals, full bass drums ...

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

....Have you heard the album?

[cramx3]

Been listening to the song more lately and liking it more with each listen.  Song didnt click for me initially although its not that I didnt like it, just needed mroe listens to digest.  I personally think MM is the best part of this song.

[Vlasto]

....Have you heard the album?

no, but I don't suppose the sound will vary for the rest of record

[dedSurroun]

I mostly really like the song, but one part that I hate that I haven't seen anyone complain about yet is the guitar doing a complex pattern over the vocals after the nice soft chorus at the beginning. It's way too busy. It would sound so much nicer with power chords or something simpler and more graceful.

I get what you are saying here, but I respectfully disagree; that's what every other band would do.  I love when DT does this kind of thing and makes it work.

+1,000 for sure.

That's what makes DT a joy to listen to and it harkens back to I&W and Awake — every instrument is doing something on its own but yet it sounds coherent. It does here, too. They stopped doing that for far too many songs and albums. Glad they're back at it.

Love the complex patterns and they should do more of it. I hope the rest of the songs on the new album follows a similar approach.

I think I'm going to really like this album. Everything I've read and heard so far is great.

[AngelBack]

I mostly really like the song, but one part that I hate that I haven't seen anyone complain about yet is the guitar doing a complex pattern over the vocals after the nice soft chorus at the beginning. It's way too busy. It would sound so much nicer with power chords or something simpler and more graceful.

I get what you are saying here, but I respectfully disagree; that's what every other band would do.  I love when DT does this kind of thing and makes it work.

+1,000 for sure.

That's what makes DT a joy to listen to and it harkens back to I&W and Awake — every instrument is doing something on its own but yet it sounds coherent. It does here, too. They stopped doing that for far too many songs and albums. Glad they're back at it.

Love the complex patterns and they should do more of it. I hope the rest of the songs on the new album follows a similar approach.

I think I'm going to really like this album. Everything I've read and heard so far is great.

Yes.

[Mebert78]

Just thought I'd transcribe these beautiful lyrics for those that are interested.


Dream Theater - "Along For the Ride"

At this moment words fail me
And my vision's unclear
Blind to the truth
Like hands reaching out in the darkness

I can't stop the world from turning around
Or the pull of the moon on the tide
But I don't believe that we're in this alone
I believe we're along for the ride
I believe we're along for the ride

Through the gift of surrender
I'm embracing the fight
Breaking the cold
That's carrying on the horizon

I can't stop the world from turning around
Or the pull of the moon on the tide
But I don't believe that we're in this alone
I believe we're along for the ride
I believe we're along for the ride

I will not live under a shadow of fear
Never be crippled by chaos and doubt
Fall prey to your madness
I am not shattered
Out of the ashes I rise
Knowing that nothing is stronger than faith
Finding hope in a hopeless light

I can't stop the world from turning around
Or the pull of the moon on the tide
But I don't believe that we're in this alone
I believe we're along for the ride

I can't stop the world from turning around
Or the pull of the moon on the tide
But I don't believe that we're in this alone
I believe we're along for the ride
I believe we're along for the ride
I believe we're along for the ride

[SethPC]

Okay, so after listening to both the Soundcloud and Dutch streams and slogging my way through this thread, I'm gonna weigh in.

As a Dream Theater fan, I liked it. I'm not sure if the track sonically reaches as high as I, a Dream Theater fan, thinks it's capable of, but I liked it. That's pretty much all down to personal taste and opinion.

As an experienced drummer, here are my thoughts on Mangini's parts:

The snare sound is NOT a "bad" sound. It's different from the typical Dream Theater snare drum sound, but it's not "bad". I've heard bad drum sounds. This is just different - fatter and deeper - and that's throwing some folks off. I will admit, however, that all the "IT SOUNDS TRIGGERED" comments I've read make me want to stab myself in the eye with a fork. Now, was it a good decision to change the snare sound for the album? The band seems to think so. Personally, I'd like for it to have been it tuned up just a little bit so the snares were a touch more pronounced. It may also be that the sound fits the album as a whole, but some individual songs not as well. It happens sometimes. Sometimes it's the opposite, where a snare sound will work for a particular track but not the album as a whole. I guess time will tell how this all plays out.

The bass sounded alright (Mike's always had good bass sound), but the toms were a bit far back in the mix and sounded like they were produced more for attack than sustain. In listening to them and the cymbals, I think I know why that is, and I've subsequently arrived at my main gripe about Along for the Ride, which is that Mike was a little too busy here. I know DT is a prog metal band, but sometimes less is still more. There were a lot of little musical nuances in this track, and I think Mike did himself a disservice by trying to accompany most of them. If his cymbals and toms were dialed in equal with the snare and bass, it'd be a mess. Pushing them back let him keep the parts, but in my opinion the overall presence of the drums suffered as a result.

I think the song will sound much better in a live scenario, and I'm hoping the track will sound better on the full release.

[jsbru]

I'm going on record and saying this is the best ballad since the Kevin Moore era.  It's a slow, melodic song, but ever since Falling Into Infinity, all their ballads fell into the "reverb piano, acoustic guitar arpeggio, and James singing like he's sitting on a wooden stool with a spotlight bearing down" type of sound.  It just got way too predictable.  This one manages to have the slow ballad feel but with the power of distorted guitar.  And they're playing as a band again, with all instruments contributing to the song, lacing together intricate melodies independently but still in synchronicity, instead of being like 90% guitar-driven.  It kind of reminds me of Surrounded a bit.

There were some touches of this on ADTOE, like in LBNF and BAI, but overall, those songs just didn't flow well and had some parts that really sounded out of place given the feel of the rest of the song (I really hate the chorus to LBNF, as it's way to heavy and non-melodic given the feel of the rest of the song, and the vocal track to BAI is just too cliche).

I like the direction the band is going in.  TEI is arranged really well for a heavier song, too.  I'm really excited to hear the marathon song on this album.

[jsbru]

Also, I love the birds in the beginning...it reminds me of Close to the Edge... 

[jsbru]

And this is probably the first song where I actually love the synth sound JR is using.  It has more of that mysterious, magical feel from I&W, rather than the haunting, gothic feel of their later albums.