Why is Systematic Chaos hated so much?

[Theme Dreater]

I don't hate SC....I just find it impossible to compare to albums like SFAM. It feels like they weren't trying hard enough to me. It's good music, it's just not top Dream Theater for me. SC to me is like Presence and In Through the Out Door were for Led Zeppelin, Momentary Lapse of Reason for Pink Floyd, or St. Anger for Metallica - yeah, they are good pieces of music, but compared to the other albums in the discog, it just doesn't stand up.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, nothing can compare to SFAM, that's a given.

[aprilethereal]

I don't hate SC....I just find it impossible to compare to albums like SFAM. It feels like they weren't trying hard enough to me. It's good music, it's just not top Dream Theater for me. SC to me is like Presence and In Through the Out Door were for Led Zeppelin, Momentary Lapse of Reason for Pink Floyd, or St. Anger for Metallica - yeah, they are good pieces of music, but compared to the other albums in the discog, it just doesn't stand up.

[ariich]

Momentary Lapse is one of my favourite PF albums, so that analogy hasn't really worked at all.

[TheGreatPretender]

Momentary Lapse is one of my favourite PF albums, so that analogy hasn't really worked at all.

But it sort of has. SC is one of my favorites. So we can just see them as highly under-appreciated by the masses albums that are actually really awesome.

[Theme Dreater]

Momentary Lapse is one of my favourite PF albums, so that analogy hasn't really worked at all.

But it sort of has. SC is one of my favorites. So we can just see them as highly under-appreciated by the masses albums that are actually really awesome.

I guess that is one of the great things about music, everyone interprets it differently. Especially with bands like PF or DT, there is just so much variance in between albums, there will always be a huge difference of opinions. A great thing about these bands is that neither has released an album without some redeeming song on it, in my opinion. I love a couple songs of both AMLoR and SC; I just don't see them as albums like Meddle or DSotM in Pink Floyd's case, or I&W/SFAM in Dream Theater's case, where pretty much every song is pretty solid. I'm digging myself into a hole here though, cuz there are certainly people who loath my favorite songs off any of those albums

[TheGreatPretender]

I guess that is one of the great things about music, everyone interprets it differently. Especially with bands like PF or DT, there is just so much variance in between albums, there will always be a huge difference of opinions. A great thing about these bands is that neither has released an album without some redeeming song on it, in my opinion. I love a couple songs of both AMLoR and SC; I just don't see them as albums like Meddle or DSotM in Pink Floyd's case, or I&W/SFAM in Dream Theater's case, where pretty much every song is pretty solid. I'm digging myself into a hole here though, cuz there are certainly people who loath my favorite songs off any of those albums

That's what it is. Personally, I consider SC to be up there with I&W and SFAM, as my top 3 favorite DT albums. But it doesn't even have to be. I mean, if I had to rank it, I'd say Awake is somewhere below Octavarium and Train of Thought for me, so it's pretty much in the middle, but I'll still admit that it's a brilliant album. And as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't NEED to be up there with SFAM or I&W (or let's say any given person's top 2 or 3) to be great. If you think every album is a disappointment just because it doesn't reach the heights of your favorites, those are some cynical and negative expectations.

[The Boomr]

BTW, the instrumental section is a brilliant piece of music and I would not like the song as much without it there.

Totally agree with this.  The instrumental adds some needed "tension" and JP's solo is just blistering.  I love this song and wish the outro was 5 minutes longer.  The synths are beautiful and the simple but soulful JP melody on the outro just does it for me.

Finally someone who agrees completely with me about everything about TMOLS  

[The Boomr]

To get back on the idea of this being a fun album, I think of it this way: it's like your movie collection.  You don't want a collection of nothing but serious dramas; you need some cheesy, action movies.  Sure, there isn't a lot of depth to those kinds of movies most of the time, but they are still fun and serve a purpose.  That is what Systematic Chaos is.

See, to me, my movie collection doesn't need any cheesy action movies.  True, I don't want a collection of nothing but serious dramas, but it's not like there's nothing to choose from but serious dramas and cheesy action movies.  There are comedies, and romances, and thrillers, and horrors, and mysteries, and plenty of other stuff, including... y'know, non-cheesy action movies.  All of which I would rather have in my collection than cheesy action movies.

... That being said, I like Systematic Chaos.  So I'm not arguing with your point, only with your analogy.   

I am a lover of cheese. Literally and emotionally. Boomr....the cheese aficionado.

[TheGreatPretender]

I am a lover of cheese. Literally and emotionally. Boomr....the cheese aficionado.

To me, Systematic Chaos is the Rambo of DT albums. It's a work of genius, even if some people fail to recognize that.

[The Boomr]

I am a lover of cheese. Literally and emotionally. Boomr....the cheese aficionado.

To me, Systematic Chaos is the Rambo of DT albums. It's a work of genius, even if some people fail to recognize that.

I completely agree. I think a big part of what some people see as it being a non-cohesive album from start to finish is that DT were Finally Free (sorry...couldn't resist!) from the shackles of their old label, they were done with the meta-album tie-ins, everything was a new beginning. Of course they were gonna go all-out crazy and write the craziest and funnest stuff they could! Some people call that self-indulgent...but as a performing musician myself, self-indulgence is what music is, for me. So, that argument's a non-starter. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Some people call that self-indulgent...but as a performing musician myself, self-indulgence is what music is, for me. So, that argument's a non-starter. 

Well, I sure as hell enjoyed it, so obviously it wasn't just themselves that they were indulging.

[The Boomr]

Some people call that self-indulgent...but as a performing musician myself, self-indulgence is what music is, for me. So, that argument's a non-starter. 

Well, I sure as hell enjoyed it, so obviously it wasn't just themselves that they were indulging.

Good point! I just feel like calling music self-indulgent is naive, because the real reason I perform music is very simple, and that is that it makes me feel good to make music. There are other things beneficial, like the thrill of performing live in front of an audience, that nervous rush. That's the other big reason. But that's still sorta attached to the fact that it just feels good to play!