Portnoy's comments on Kevin Moore (from Score commentary)

[MoraWintersoul]

He's been saying that he had a hard time taking direction on the drums, because I don't think that's what goes on in Dream Theater anymore. I think everyone just plays their own parts.

Now that's an interesting insight into the writing process of DT, past and present.

Well, while his assumption of how things are going "now" in Dream Theater may or may not be correct (that intie was in 2003), I always thought it was probable that, similarly to how all of them contributed music to the first three DT albums, all of them also took directions from other members of the band from time to time while Kevin was in the band, since they were pretty equally involved and no one was the "leader". The dynamics probably shifted when Derek was around - I can't imagine, for example, JP getting instructions from Derek on what to do with a background riff during a keyboard lead. Nor can I imagine JR having equal input, even with his own parts, before SDOIT. And similarly, John Myung became pretty withdrawn in the process.

Now we have a bit more "equal" situation, with JMX contributing more, JLB being around in the studio more, Mike 2.0 being more involved in composition and less in steering the stylistic direction, and JR being almost equal to JP in terms of input, but we have yet to hear of him writing a full song himself, or JMX originating a song like LSOAD, or to have an album where all five members contributed lyrics again. Actually, that last thing is probably never gonna happen and I am grateful that we have JMX and JLB as regular contributors, even with just one song

[TAC]

Sure, the many DT fans who love to soak in any and all knowledge about the band and their history would love to hear more from Moore, but from a humanistic standpoint, what he has done is actually very classy.  He is taking the high road by not letting himself be drawn into any of the drama that would surely come from any band-related comment he would make that wasn't positive.

By keeping silent, combined with his presence and writing on two of the band's most popular records to date, he is almost a mysterious persona, one who has the quiet genius reputation, fair or not.  He is similar to Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd in that regard, even if their stories are totally different.

Personally, I think it makes him seem a tad arrogant, for lack of a better term. I mean, I'm not saying he has to live in the past and every 5 minutes say, "I miss DT" or something like that. But to just completely clam up and for all intents and purposes, deny that he was ever in the band, which is what it almost seems like, then it really does seem like he turned his back on the people who adored him. I mean, it just doesn't strike me as mysterious at all, it just strikes me as a bit stuck up. That's just my opinion though.

Kevin isn't a nostalgic person; I remember when he was asked why he didn't agree to appear at the LSFNY show he said he doesn't find the idea of flying to some city just to play a song he wrote in 1994 very rewarding and it wouldn't make him more creative or anything.

You'd think pleasing the fans who got you to where you are today would be reward enough.

Blob, I agree 100%, and this has always been my contention.

[Ben_Jamin]

I love those interviews.

I enjoy KM's music a lot and don't feel he needs to play with DT again. I do feel he could play live more often, but he doesn't really seem to keen on playing live. His attitude is totally opposite of MP, and him not wanting to dwell in the past is fine.

The talk about KM owing fans makes think of this Simpsons quote:

"They gave you hours of quality entertainment, if anything you owe them."

[YngVai]

Kevin's totally acknowledged DT.  He posted that vid of the kids playing PMU to facebook, duh. 

[TheGreatPretender]

When has he ever denied that he was in the band?  Not wanting to be a part of something from your past is not denying you were a part of it.  That silly assertion is part of the problem in regards to DT fans who feel that Moore owes them and the band something.

Well, you know, the fans are interested. Not even about why he left, or any of that crap. But people want to know what his experience in the band was like. How he felt about everything when they started out, what changed, etc. Maybe he doesn't owe us anything, but then we shouldn't be singing him praises for his silence either.

[ytserush]

Great stuff here people.


For what it's worth, I didn't doubt the whole band...just Derek.  I was also more than a bit worried about giving in to the record label.  It was a deteriorating situation all around,

[jammindude]

It seems to me that Mike is right about one thing...leaving the band is one thing...but refusing to have anything to do with it whatsoever (when he seemed happy to play the same style of music for people like Jim Matheos) takes it to a level that is a bit more personal.   I think he had a problem with personalities within the band that he doesn't want to vent personally or publicly.    He just avoids the confrontation by staying away.    It might be Mike...but heck, it may have been John or James...but in any event, it does seem to be more personal than just a musical style change.

I find OSI really different from DT (which is something Kevin himself pointed out). Sure they both fit under the umbrella of progressive metal, but OSI's music has much more focus on atmosphere and textures than technical instrumentation.

<snip>

To clarify...when I said that KM was willing to play the same style of music for Jim, I was referring specifically to the two albums (and even a few live performances) that he did with Fates Warning.   

[RaiseTheKnife]

Great song, great thread.

[Ħ]

KM left the band at a bad time - right before they were about to go on tour. That left the band in a very bad position. It screwed the band and in turn the fans.

MP left the band in a more appropriate fashion, even though it was very sudden. I do like that Mike was forthcoming about his reasons and still kept in touch, rather than disappear and ignore everyone like Kevin.

[?]

To clarify...when I said that KM was willing to play the same style of music for Jim, I was referring specifically to the two albums (and even a few live performances) that he did with Fates Warning.   

Ah, ok. I haven't heard a lot of Fates Warning, but their stuff doesn't seem that similar to DT.

KM left the band at a bad time - right before they were about to go on tour. That left the band in a very bad position. It screwed the band and in turn the fans.

MP left the band in a more appropriate fashion, even though it was very sudden. I do like that Mike was forthcoming about his reasons and still kept in touch, rather than disappear and ignore everyone like Kevin.

To quote myself:

If Kevin had forced himself to tour for the sake of loyalty to the band I bet the tour would've been a really awkward experience for everyone, because there would've been one guy who had lost all his interest in the band's music. And as rumborak pointed out, there's a reason MP gets more flak for how he handled his departure than KM did.

[MoraWintersoul]

To clarify...when I said that KM was willing to play the same style of music for Jim, I was referring specifically to the two albums (and even a few live performances) that he did with Fates Warning.   

And an answer to that, from an intie just after A Pleasant Shade Of Gray:
"It's always a lot of fun to work with the guys in Fates. And it's also fun to fool around with some more technically challenging music than I'm usually involved with - for a couple days anyway"

AND similarly, about the bio - it would be as if someone bugged you to give detailed interviews about your young adulthood/adolescence/whatever when a) you don't understand why would it be so interesting b) don't have anything insightful to offer c) don't particularly want to make yourself a center of attention d) know that thousands of people will overanalyze your every word, like we overanalyzed the words of all the others d) all of the above.
About the anniversary performances - in addition to feeling cameo performances by ex-members are silly and gratuitous (did I link that one or not? but basically it comes to that), maybe he indeed had something against one or more current members of DT, maybe he didn't want to override the anxiety of playing live and again be the center of attention for that experience. Maybe he just didn't wanna be bugged to do it again for every next anniversary, because people would be asking why'd he come over in 2004 but not in 2006. We just don't know.

I'm having trouble with this attitude in our culture, where, if you don't want to do something (and particularly a public performance), you better have a damn good reason, and you better divulge it to everyone. When, actually, you can just say no and refuse to say more on the subject just like a yes, no doesn't need to be explained.

[puppyonacid]

I guess from KMs point of view, sometimes you want to be able to say no and let that be the end of it. I can definitely identify with that.

On a totally much lower level; I was rehearsing with a straight up metal band at the beginning of last year and I remember after 2 or 3 weeks jsut feeling that I didn't want to do it. Totally not really what I'm in to and it wasn't making me happy. So I politely said thanks but no thanks.

Multiply that by a world tour and 3 albums and it just makes for much more drama when in relaity I think KM was just basically saying thanks but no thanks.......he wanted to go down a different path and to be honest, I really respect him for having the strength to walk away like he did because it wasn't what he wanted.

Many people would be to eager to please and not rock the boat etc. Ironically, sometimes in life it can take a lot of strength to walk away from something that isn't making you happy.

[?]

*snip*

Amen to that.

[TAC]

Great stuff here people.


For what it's worth, I didn't doubt the whole band...just Derek.  I was also more than a bit worried about giving in to the record label.  It was a deteriorating situation all around,

I agree. I was surprised that they made Derek a full member.
And the first listen to FII proved your record label concern was justified.

When has he ever denied that he was in the band?  Not wanting to be a part of something from your past is not denying you were a part of it.  That silly assertion is part of the problem in regards to DT fans who feel that Moore owes them and the band something.

I think "owes" is a pretty strong word. I don't think Kevin owes us anything, however, a formal "tip of the cap" to the fans would certainly be appreciated. I think what some fans need is a type of closure.

It's always been my opinion that Kevin's work with DT opened doors for him that may not have been available to him otherwise. A leap I guess, but a formal appearance, to me, would at least show that he appreciates that time.

Maybe he can't run further away from it. I don't know. Perhaps there are painful memories of that time. Plenty of cringeworthy moments in my early life.

[ZirconBlue]

I don't care that KM didn't join DT on stage, but I think he missed a golden opportunity in "Lifting Shadows".  One little interview and from that point on, whenever asked about DT he could just say "read the book".

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think KM owes anything to anyone, and I don't care that he never showed up for any of the shows to which he was invited.

But I find it incredulous that some people seem not to understand MP feeling the way he did about the split - at least at first.

[sueño]

I'm having trouble with this attitude in our culture, where, if you don't want to do something (and particularly a public performance), you better have a damn good reason, and you better divulge it to everyone. When, actually, you can just say no and refuse to say more on the subject just like a yes, no doesn't need to be explained.

I don't have anything to add to this thread beyond LOVING what you wrote here.   

and this:

Many people would be to eager to please and not rock the boat etc. Ironically, sometimes in life it can take a lot of strength to walk away from something that isn't making you happy.

Life lessons.   

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't care that KM didn't join DT on stage, but I think he missed a golden opportunity in "Lifting Shadows".  One little interview and from that point on, whenever asked about DT he could just say "read the book".

Totally agreed.

Still, every time I hear that anymore, I just think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ysDXYr-KTs8&t=56

[mikeyd23]

I'm having trouble with this attitude in our culture, where, if you don't want to do something (and particularly a public performance), you better have a damn good reason, and you better divulge it to everyone. When, actually, you can just say no and refuse to say more on the subject just like a yes, no doesn't need to be explained.

Yeah its basically entitlement.  Our modern culture seems to feel like it's entitled to know those sorts of things.

Great post though and great discussion on this topic! I'm learning lots of interesting things from this thread, thanks guys! 

[sueño]

Even moreso -- people feel entitled to everything from others...but don't feel inclined to be as giving or transparent in return.  Their OWN privacy is sancrosanct...but you have no right to withhold anything from them.

It's interesting.

[mikeyd23]

Even moreso -- people feel entitled to everything from others...but don't feel inclined to be as giving or transparent in return.  Their OWN privacy is sancrosanct...but you have no right to withhold anything from them.

It's interesting.

Yeah, it goes along with that consumerist culture mentality.  People take, take, take but protect their own right to not have to give...

[Ħ]

I don't think KM owes anything to anyone, and I don't care that he never showed up for any of the shows to which he was invited.

But I find it incredulous that some people seem not to understand MP feeling the way he did about the split - at least at first.

incredulous

that word

[sueño]

I don't think KM owes anything to anyone, and I don't care that he never showed up for any of the shows to which he was invited.

But I find it incredulous that some people seem not to understand MP feeling the way he did about the split - at least at first.

incredulous

that word

Are you "incredulous" at his usage?   

[ytserush]

I'm having trouble with this attitude in our culture, where, if you don't want to do something (and particularly a public performance), you better have a damn good reason, and you better divulge it to everyone. When, actually, you can just say no and refuse to say more on the subject just like a yes, no doesn't need to be explained.

I don't have anything to add to this thread beyond LOVING what you wrote here.   

and this:

Many people would be to eager to please and not rock the boat etc. Ironically, sometimes in life it can take a lot of strength to walk away from something that isn't making you happy.

Life lessons.   

That sums it up for me.

But as soon as I heard Kevin's first demos, I completely understood why he left.