Octavarium vs. Systematic Chaos

[JPX]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

[Dublagent66]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

It's not really a particular song that sounds similar, it's the way James sings the chorus.  He's got that Bono type style going on that is only really evident in the studio version.  If you listen to the live Score version of IWBY, it doesn't have the same effect.  That's what reminded me of U2 when I first heard it on the album, it never reminded me of a specific U2 song.

[robwebster]

The guitar tone on the chorus, with all the delay, is a sort of U2 signature, too. It's not a dead ringer, but it sounds U2-y in the same kind of way Sacrificed Sons sounds Musey.

[yorost]

Maybe a metal'd out Beautiful Day with a touch of Elevation? It's not that it sounds like U2, the vibe just seems similar.

[ImNewDontKillMe]

Even though I do enjoy SC (probably way more then most DT fans) Octavarium is the winner here. It was the first full DT album I ever bought and listening to it straight through was absolutley mind blowing. Before DT, I hadnt listened to anything prog whatsoever, mainly a metal head. I only knew DT from hearing Constant Motion on a random youtube playlist. I couldnt even fathom the title track after I heard it. The longest song I had heard up until then was about 7 minutes, lol. From that point on I've been hooked on everything dream theater. Real game changer that album is.

[darkshade]

I'd say the B-side "The Way It Used To Be" sounds more like U2, although when I first listened to Octavarium, U2 immediately came to mind when I heard IWBY, but the song has aged well over time, I'd say, and I don't think of U2 anymore when I hear it.

Also, I think the Score version of IWBY is superior to the studio version, the chorus just sounds better for some reason.

[Rattlehead]

Man, the way some of you guys talk about 8vm makes me feel like I've listened to a different album. 

[BlobVanDam]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

So far away ahead of ACOS, that is. I don't even rank ACOS top 50.

[Lucien]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

So far away ahead of ACOS, that is. I don't even rank ACOS top 50.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Octavarium wins quite easily for me. It's got higher highs and is generally more consistent. Just a more memorable album, I think.

[aprilethereal]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

So far away ahead of ACOS, that is. I don't even rank ACOS top 50.

[Ruba]

I don't even rank Octavarium top 50.

[JPX]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

So far away ahead of ACOS, that is. I don't even rank ACOS top 50.

Ok...good for you?

[Full Speed]

8VM, but not by much. Don't really like either album very much, but I like two songs on 8VM (TROAE and TW) while I only like one on SC (POW). And while most of the songs on 8VM that I don't like I can tolerate, I really have a hard time listening to most of the songs on SC.

[Kotowboy]

Octavarium sounds like it was recorded outside in a field whilst Systematic Chaos sounds like it was recorded in a 12ft by 12ft wooden box.


As such - Octavarium is the much nicer listen for my money.

[Lucien]

Octavarium sounds like it was recorded outside in a field whilst Systematic Chaos sounds like it was recorded in a 12ft by 12ft wooden box.


As such - Octavarium is the much nicer listen for my money.

[Mosh]

Octavarium sounds like it was recorded outside in a field whilst Systematic Chaos sounds like it was recorded in a 12ft by 12ft wooden box.

I've never thought of it like that, but that's seriously the perfect analogy. Definitely agree.

[bosk1]

SC, easily. While Octavarium has a few redeeming features, it's still pretty bad and the title track is probably one of the most boring and THE most overrated DT song in existance.

Agreed. Octavarium (the song) is about 10 minutes too long. It's so far away from ACOS it's not even funny.

So far away ahead of ACOS, that is. I don't even rank ACOS top 50.

Ok...good for you?

You've already been warned formally and informally about insulting and baiting others.  I am going to ask one more time that you review the forum rules and that you reevaluate your posting habits.  This is the last time I am going to ask.  Consider this your final warning.

[bosk1]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

Other than the one post that responded to your post in this thread, I don't think it sounds like any specific U2 song.  But as a long-time U2 fan going back to The Unforgettable Fire (yeah, I know I missed a few years before I finally got on the bandwagon, but don't worry--I went back and got caught up), I am familiar enough with their style that when band's do songs that are meant to sound like U2, it is fairly obvious that they are meant to sound like U2.  I don't think IWBY sounds like a specific U2 song, but it definitely has a U2 vibe to it.  I can't articulate why, but it was obvious to me from the first time I heard the song, and I'm not the only one.  And I can't tell you all the specific musical attributes that make it sound like U2.  It just does.  Same with, for example, To Live Forever.

[Daso]

I'd go with SC. ITPOE is an amazing piece of music, especially when the two parts are put together. I absolutely love The Dark Eternal Night, it has insanely fun riffing, the instrumental section fits rightly in the song since it adds a lot of the progressive element it lacks at some parts, and the drumming is amazing. Repentance is beautiful, I love James's singing on it and the overall mellow, melancholic groove through it. The Ministry of Lost Souls gets a lot of bashing, but at least for me it's always good, and it's great when heard in the right mood. Forsaken is average, and Prophets of War is, in my opinion, the worst song Dream Theater has made. Unbearably cheesy singing and lacks the usual instrumental proficiency, to say the least, most Dream Theater songs have. Also, whenever I listen to the album and skip Forsaken and PoW, the album flows incredibly well.

As for Octavarium, I would only call The Root of all Evill and the title track outstanding, with Octavarium being in my top 5 DT songs. Sacrificed Songs is good, but has the same flaw that I find in The Ministry of Lost Souls: the Hollywood-esque strings section, which makes me unable to listen to either of them too often. SS's instrumental section is better and fits in more than TMoLS's, but I like the vocal parts for TMoLS's better. Although it is rather misplaced in the album, I actually enjoy The Answer Lies Within a lot, I think it's a beautiful song. It might seem bland if compared to other DT works, but it adds for a lot of variety. The other rather good song on the album for me is I Walk Beside You. Even though I think PoW is worse than These Walls, Never Enough and Panic Attack, that is three against one. Also, as I've seen it being mentioned, those songs are placed in parts of the album where they almost strategically cut it's flow.

So, again, SC for me, even though Octavarium is great as well.

[Nick]

While Octavarium the song beats anything on SC, SC is a better album. On 8V basically everything except the title track and These Walls really got stale over time. The only really downer on SC is The Ministry of why is this song so damn long.

[black_biff_stadler]

^Given your prog leanings, that was a major surprise.

[Cruithne]

I'm still trying to work out why songs having a flavour of U2 about them is a bad thing.

Bono might be a world class pillock, but U2 have a number of great songs.

[Kotowboy]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

Other than the one post that responded to your post in this thread, I don't think it sounds like any specific U2 song.  But as a long-time U2 fan going back to The Unforgettable Fire (yeah, I know I missed a few years before I finally got on the bandwagon, but don't worry--I went back and got caught up), I am familiar enough with their style that when band's do songs that are meant to sound like U2, it is fairly obvious that they are meant to sound like U2.  I don't think IWBY sounds like a specific U2 song, but it definitely has a U2 vibe to it.  I can't articulate why, but it was obvious to me from the first time I heard the song, and I'm not the only one.  And I can't tell you all the specific musical attributes that make it sound like U2.  It just does.  Same with, for example, To Live Forever.

It's the chiming, delayed arpeggios and the root 8th notes on bass that give it that vibe. Plus the i - v - vi - iv arrangement in the chorus.

[KevShmev]

Okay, but U2 is not the only band to feature guitar playing with delay (although I get that that is a huge part of their sound).  It seems like every time a band releases a song that has guitar playing with delay, everyone says, "It sounds like U2!"  But like Cruithne said, that is not a bad thing, considering U2 is awesome.

[bosk1]

Okay, but U2 is not the only band to feature guitar playing with delay (although I get that that is a huge part of their sound).  It seems like every time a band releases a song that has guitar playing with delay, everyone says, "It sounds like U2!" 

Yeah, but it's not just that.  Sure, that's a huge element.  But the vocal melodies and vocal phrasings play into that in a big way as well.

But like Cruithne said, that is not a bad thing, considering U2 is awesome.

Of course not!  U2 are awesome.  ...or at least, they were.  I know they still put out great music, but I lost interest in their more modern approach in the mid '90s or so.

[yorost]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

Other than the one post that responded to your post in this thread,..

What? There were maybe 6 or 7 replies to his question.

[bosk1]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

Other than the one post that responded to your post in this thread,..

What? There were maybe 6 or 7 replies to his question.

Yes, but only one person said it sounds like a specific U2 song.  Most people just think it sounds like U2 in general without saying it sounds like any one specific song. 

[yorost]

I'm always ignored.   https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=37497.msg1595641#msg1595641

[kirksnosehair]

I'd still love for anybody to tell what actual U2 song I Walk Beside You supposedly sounds like.

Other than the one post that responded to your post in this thread, I don't think it sounds like any specific U2 song.  But as a long-time U2 fan going back to The Unforgettable Fire (yeah, I know I missed a few years before I finally got on the bandwagon, but don't worry--I went back and got caught up), I am familiar enough with their style that when band's do songs that are meant to sound like U2, it is fairly obvious that they are meant to sound like U2.  I don't think IWBY sounds like a specific U2 song, but it definitely has a U2 vibe to it.  I can't articulate why, but it was obvious to me from the first time I heard the song, and I'm not the only one.  And I can't tell you all the specific musical attributes that make it sound like U2.  It just does.  Same with, for example, To Live Forever.

Actually, to me, it's the guitar riff that opens the song.  That playing style and technique is almost a caricature of what Dave Evans plays on many a U2 track.  Ascending chord progression with upbeat transitions helps a bit as well.


First time I heard IWBY, the first thing I thought of was U2.  I wouldn't call it a ripoff, more of a case a paying homage I think.

[Unlegit]

Octavarium, easily.