Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation

[wasteland]

I must have missed that. Bosk, you are not very efficient in boasting about your masterpieces. 

[bosk1]

Sorry.  Here you go:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=14234.msg538316#msg538316

I can't believe we've had this album for over a year now and I just now realized it is a concept album.  Not sure why the theme is not made more obvious, but I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that BCSL is about cannibalism.  The hints and nuggets abound.  Here is a short summary:

A Nightmare to Remember:  The opening lyrics give us a hint that the song is about something funny that soon turned to tragedy.  Let's face it, every time cannibalism is brought up in this day and age, it is treated as a joke.  But what began as laughter so soon would turn to pain...as the flesh was being gnawed from their very bones!     The guests quickly left the wedding as the uninvited stranger began consuming the bride right before the wedding guests' very eyes!  (so we said goodbye to the glowing (probably because she was just freshly over broiled and was glowing from the heat) bride)  Then the song's protagonist finds himself lying on a table, obviously as the next meal.  Why else would he be on the table?  Duh.  We next hear about a faceless man.  Obviously, this refers to Hannibal Lechter wearing his safety mask so his face cannot be seen.  Anyhow, this one should be fairly obvious now, so no point beating it into the ground.

A Right of Passage:  General information about the secret rituals practiced by those secretive cannibals.

Wither:  This was what clinched it for me.  Now we know we aren't dealing with a single cannibal as discussed in TCOT, but a female member of royalty who also engaged in such practices.  I think the lyric, "But this Baroness consumes me" says it all.

The Shattered Fortress:  The cannibals regret what they have become and try to make amends, only to realize that to deny their true urge to be a cannibal is impossible.  The song ends with an unexpected twist as they reach out to the hungry and try to make them into cannibals by cutting off their own hands and feeding them to these hungry people:  "I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help.  I want my hand to be there."

The Best of Times:  This one is a little bit more of a challenge to figure out how it fits in.  I haven't completely figured it out yet, but I think it's just meant to show how cannibalism is passed down through the generations as a son reflects back fondly on how his father brought him up to embrace the cannibalistic lifestyle (and perhaps the boy now thinks ahead to how he will marinate and devour his dad after his dad's passing).

The Count of Tuscany:  "Cannibal curator," drinking the wine made from the dead soldiers, etc.  This is obviously about Hannibal's family, bringing the album full circle back to Hannibal eating the bride in the first song and him wanting JP to tell the world about him, which DT obviously dedicated the entire album to.

There you have it.  Please feel free to add in any nuggest I missed.  I have to say, while this is perhaps one of the most bizarre album concepts DT have come up with to date, knowing and understanding the underlying concept has made the album even more enjoyable to me.

[?]

I remember that analysis!

Wait... ANALYSIS!

[JayOctavarium]

[CodyWanKenobi]

But the one thing that doesn't make sense is that....



EVERYONE SURVIVED!

[GasparXR]

But the one thing that doesn't make sense is that....



EVERYONE SURVIVED!

Zombies.

[CodyWanKenobi]

But the one thing that doesn't make sense is that....



EVERYONE SURVIVED!

Zombies.

And THAT is what the concept of the new DT album is gonna be! It was right in front of our eyes this whole time!!!!

[Scorpion]

Bosk, that was the best DT analysis that I've ever read, hands down.

[kirksnosehair]

The Flying Buffalo of Truth Approves This Thread

[Elite]

I remember that analysis!

Wait... ANALYSIS!

Inventory!

[Polis]

I bet the creator of this thread is feeling kind of jaded at his very serious, thought-out attempt to share something close to his heart turning into a thread of people posting spiderman memes and buffalo gifs. Not a single response to how awesome this interpretation is turning out to be.

[GasparXR]

Maybe he's feeling trinity jaded.

[DebraKadabra]

Maybe he's feeling clinically jaded.

FTFY

[Dacling]

I think that DT should fully embrace the concept openly and play the album in it's entirely with tons of spiderman visuals. Maybe even go full on Peter Gabriel era Genesis with costumes.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Can anyone else picture a bad ass blue and red JP12 with a spider in the middle for the 'Awake in it's entirety' show? hahaha.

[DebraKadabra]

I think that DT should fully embrace the concept openly and play the album in it's entirely with tons of spiderman visuals. Maybe even go full on Peter Gabriel era Genesis with costumes.

[Podaar]

Can anyone else picture a bad ass blue and red JP12 with a spider in the middle for the 'Awake in it's entirety' show? hahaha.

Yes, yes I can. 

[Zydar]

 

[TheAtliator]

I bet the creator of this thread is feeling kind of jaded at his very serious, thought-out attempt to share something close to his heart turning into a thread of people posting spiderman memes and buffalo gifs. Not a single response to how awesome this interpretation is turning out to be.

thank you very much.

Still not a single response to all of this I wrote out. Kinda frustrating Bosk started this being that "Posts whose only goal is to increase post count will not be tolerated. Spamming and off-topic posts are examples." and that if someone is googling the meaning of this album, they might find my interpretation followed by "um no" not realizing that it was a troll who wrote that.

Anyway, I'm gonna post part 2 soon, hopefully

[GasparXR]

This thread did turn into fun but I very much enjoyed your interpretation and would like to see more of it. Sorry I didn't reply directly to that sooner, I got caught in a web the spiderman jokes.

[King Postwhore]

That club could be cool...

Anyway, I've obviously heard about the Spiderman thing before, but I have to give Reapsta props for coming up with such a thorough analysis

Yup.  Almost as good as my "Why Black Clouds And Silver Linings is a concept album about cannibalism" analysis.

Tuscan inspired foods rules.

[DebraKadabra]

Can anyone else picture a bad ass blue and red JP12 with a spider in the middle for the 'Awake in it's entirety' show? hahaha.

Yes, yes I can. 

[hefdaddy42]

I bet the creator of this thread is feeling kind of jaded at his very serious, thought-out attempt to share something close to his heart turning into a thread of people posting spiderman memes and buffalo gifs. Not a single response to how awesome this interpretation is turning out to be.

thank you very much.

Still not a single response to all of this I wrote out. Kinda frustrating Bosk started this being that "Posts whose only goal is to increase post count will not be tolerated. Spamming and off-topic posts are examples." and that if someone is googling the meaning of this album, they might find my interpretation followed by "um no" not realizing that it was a troll who wrote that.

Anyway, I'm gonna post part 2 soon, hopefully

Well, it's interesting that you find such meaning in the album, but I don't think these things are the album's "purpose" like it was the band's ulterior motive or anything.

[DebraKadabra]

Kinda frustrating Bosk started this being that "Posts whose only goal is to increase post count will not be tolerated. Spamming and off-topic posts are examples." and that if someone is googling the meaning of this album, they might find my interpretation followed by "um no" not realizing that it was a troll who wrote that.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Kinda frustrating Bosk started this being that "Posts whose only goal is to increase post count will not be tolerated. Spamming and off-topic posts are examples." and that if someone is googling the meaning of this album, they might find my interpretation followed by "um no" not realizing that it was a troll who wrote that.

[bosk1]

Still not a single response to all of this I wrote out.

That could largely be due to 2 factors:
1.  Your post starting off by essentially saying, "Most Dream Theater fans are too stupid to figure out what I alone have figured out about this album, so let me enlighten you" is very offputting and, frankly, laughable.  You aren't going to win many friends or convince many people to take your post seriously when you start off with such a condescending tone.
2.  Your post basically says, "this is how it is.  This is what this song is about" as if it were fact.  You aren't leaving any room for discussion.  You are telling people how it is.  Or maybe I should say, you are telling people how you think it is.  You aren't inviting any discussion.  You are just laying it out there.
3.  Your opinions in several places don't really have anything to do with what the band thinks the songs are about.  And since the band wrote the songs, they would know better, don'tcha think?

When you start a thread that talks down to people and doesn't invite discussion, don't be surprised when there isn't much discussion.

Kinda frustrating Bosk started this being that "Posts whose only goal is to increase post count will not be tolerated. Spamming and off-topic posts are examples." and that if someone is googling the meaning of this album, they might find my interpretation followed by "um no" not realizing that it was a troll who wrote that.

Again, see above.  This is a discussion forum.  So if you start a thread that doesn't invite discussion, you are either going to be ignored or shouted down.  I was telling you you were wrong in a fun kind of way.  If you don't like that, then I apologize, but you need to rethink how you started the thread.  First off, change the tone to something like, "Hey, guys, I know these songs have been discussed a lot, but I've been thinking a lot about them, and here's what I take away from them.  I know it may not be what the band intended, but here's how they speak to me on a personal level."  Not necessarily just like that, but I'm giving you an example of a better tone to use that would make your post more acceptable and would invite more discussion that having a tone more along the lines of someone who has just discovered literary device for the first time and wants to ram his own subjective interpretation down people's throats as if it were somehow objective fact.  Or, better yet, rather than start a new thread that is all about you, use the search function and post in a relevant thread that is actually about the album/songs.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Still not a single response to all of this I wrote out.

Or, better yet, rather than start a new thread that is all about you, use the search function and post in a relevant thread that is actually about the album/songs.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say THIS is the main reason you were trolled dude.

[DebraKadabra]

Well said, bosk.

[TheAtliator]

If you want me to add "What I think is.." to the beginning of every sentence I write to make you feel a little better about yourself, it's not gonna happen. If it's coming out of my mouth or my fingers, it inherently means it's what I think, whether it be an opinion or conviction.

And as Dream Theater interpreters, appreciators, and inspirees, we don't need or want fluff.

And as for your trolling- Remember kids, it's always OK to break the rules when you disagree with your opponent!

[bosk1]

If you want me to add "What I think is.." to the beginning of every sentence I write to make you feel a little better about yourself, it's not gonna happen. If it's coming out of my mouth or my fingers, it inherently means it's what I think, whether it be an opinion or conviction.

And you apparently aren't getting what I'm saying, so let me try again.  The majority of the rules here can basically be summed up as:  (1) don't steal the band's stuff, and (2) don't be a jerk.  We aren't dealing with issue #1, so forget about that.  But we are most definitely dealing with issue #2.  As I and the other mods have said countless times, it isn't what you say, but how you say it.  Starting off the thread in a condescending tone is not respecting your fellow posters.  Starting a separate thread about an existing topic that is really more about you than about the songs/album in question is not respecting your fellow posters.  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you either didn't intend it the way it came across, or didn't understand that that's how we do things here.  But if it continues, or if you continue attacking me when I'm trying to point this out to you, you are not going to be able to stay here.  In my opinion, the better course of action would be to take a step back and thnk about what I said, and hopefully be able to say, "Okay, I understand that bosk1 isn't attacking me personally, and while I might not agree with what he is saying, I get where he's coming from."  But I'm just letting you know that if you cavalierly blow this off and basically continue to say, "whatever.  I'm going to post how I want to post," then...well, you eventually won't be able to post.

[Perpetual Change]

I stopped reading at "I'm going to 'lead you to water'."

[DebraKadabra]

And as for your trolling- Remember kids, it's always OK to break the rules when you disagree with your opponent!

I honestly don't get what you aim to gain by calling one of the administrators of this site a troll.  Unless you're calling us ALL trolls.

Well played, dude.

[nicmos]

I'm going to stick my nose in here.  I know I don't post that much, but seriously this is getting out of hand.

I thought the OP's post was fine, and not offensive or arrogant in any way.  I thought Bosk's reply was pretty dismissive and mean.  And then he goes and accuses Atliator of being a jerk.  Bosk, I know you weren't trying to be mean, but your response was a little disrespectful.  It feels like the veterans are ganging up and bullying the new guy.  You know, maybe he could have posted in an existing Awake thread.  I think this deserves its own thread, frankly.  The justifications for the responses to the original post were pretty post hoc and I don't buy them.  I think if this were a verbal conversation, nonverbal cues and tone would be a lot easier to interpret and we wouldn't be having this problem.  So let's lighten up.

I propose a reset.  I think Atliator has an interesting idea and it's worth discussing, and I want to see if he has opinions on the rest of the songs.  I also think the Spiderman angle is pretty damn funny.  You don't have to agree with me, but I just want to point out Atliator isn't the only one with a dissenting opinion, for whatever it's worth.   Just my 2 cents.

[TheAtliator]

Thank you very much, Nicmos. I agree with you.


If any of you want me to justify anything I've said, I will do so (obviously time permitting) because I have thought through the facts before posting it.

Favorite quote of the day right now-

Instead of telling someone to stop being cocky, why don't you all disprove him?

now...

it isn't what you say, but how you say it.  Starting off the thread in a condescending tone is not respecting your fellow posters.  Starting a separate thread about an existing topic that is really more about you than about the songs/album in question is not respecting your fellow posters.  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you either didn't intend it the way it came across, or didn't understand that that's how we do things here.

The original post was not written condescendingly, you are just taking it that way, and in some people's opinion (but not mine) rightfully so. Either way, now you know that is NOT how it was intended.

I write, and will continue to write with finesse and precision; not fluff. Maybe my biggest room for improvement is in the finesse? Okay maybe. I'll keep that in mind.

As for starting a new thread, I thought it would be very appropriate much like many users' top 50 threads because this writing is very lengthy, and I wanted a place specifically home to my interpretation so if someone was curious, he would find it all in one place.

With this, I hope we're cool

I stopped reading at "I'm going to 'lead you to water'."

Well I can't make you drink

Honestly though, this is a subject I study in particular and on which I would like to share my thoughts. There are plenty of other subjects where I have said to someone "please enlighten me" because it is something that interested him that I may not know about, but not this one.

Again, no offense intended. If you aren't interested in talking about this subject, or even talking to me, then don't.

[bosk1]

EDIT:  Typed before Atliator posted:  Nicmos, I appreciate your perspective as well.  Look, no warnings were issued.  I don't think there is a problem, unless Atliator makes it a problem.  If he was truly bothered by my original post and the posts that followed and does not appreciate the humor, that's fine.  He can let us know, in which case I apologize, and it is my job to then ask people to kindly keep it on topic and discuss.  His opinion and analysis are welcome, whether people agree with it or not.  But when he then attacked me and indirectly attacked the forum at large for not jumping into the thread to discuss his analysis, that wasn't cool.  But despite that, no warnings were issued, and hopefully my explanation will get things back on track.