WWRD - What would Rush do?

[Setlist Scotty]

Hey all

since MP's departure, it seems apparent that JP has taken the reins of the band's leadership on his own, even if different band members take care of individual things. Something that I recall JP mentioning to me (and I believe I've also read him say in interviews) is the philosophy of asking "what would Rush do?" and following their example.

I'm a huge Rush fan - they've been one of my favorite bands for the last 30+ years, and they are very respectable both as individual people (publicly and privately) as well as a band, so as a general rule, I don't have a problem with that at all. What are your thoughts on them following such a mindset? What things have DT done in following Rush's example that you like? That you don't like? What things would you like DT to do that Rush is currently doing?

For me personally, I wish DT would:
• return to the Evening With tours, as Rush has been doing continuously since 1996
• use a co-producer just to get that additional "objective" input
• have Howard "Herns" Ungerleider design their lightshow (not that DT's is bad, but Rush's is much better)
• be willing to do medleys of songs that they are unwilling to perform in full because of their length (I know JP hates medleys, but when they refuse to include a song in a setlist because it's too long, as was the case with not having TCoT on the new DVD, then I think it's a reasonable request); besides, Rush did it with the ByTor/Cygnus X1/Working Man medley on the 2002 tour!   

[MoraWintersoul]

I was wondering when will a thread on this pop up

I've only started exploring some classic Rush albums (and Clockwork Angels!), and I can't say I know much about their career but I always smiled to myself when I came across JP mentioning he'd like to model their career after Rush's in a direct or indirect way because Rush has been together for, how long, 35 years? More? And they are still relevant, have a hardcore fanbase and I can't say I remember I ever heard of them compromising their artistic identity. I want DT to be around in ten years, in that exact way, and if this attitude leads them to that place, I'll be such a happy puppy.

[The Letter M]

• return to the Evening With tours, as Rush has been doing continuously since 1996

YES. They definitely need to be doing 3-hour shows again. They have SOOO much material, especially material that hasn't been regularly played in the last 6+ years, that they can pull out and play again, especially since JLB has been at the top of his game, which means he should be able to do older songs some justice!

• use a co-producer just to get that additional "objective" input

True! They could use a bit of outside eyes/ears on their music. Not to say the last couple albums have been same-y, but there have been more-than-predictable moments as of late.

• have Howard "Herns" Ungerleider design their lightshow (not that DT's is bad, but Rush's is much better)

I don't have an issue with their light shows, but Rush's are usually at the top, so this wouldn't be a terrible suggestion.

• be willing to do medleys of songs that they are unwilling to perform in full because of their length (I know JP hates medleys, but when they refuse to include a song in a setlist because it's too long, as was the case with not having TCoT on the new DVD, then I think it's a reasonable request); besides, Rush did it with the ByTor/Cygnus X1/Working Man medley on the 2002 tour!   

ONE Medley would be nice, but that's about it, and limit it to 3 songs, like the closing medley used on the FII tour/seen on OIALT.

Also, in the case of not having TCOT on DVD, they should just really get the video from their performance Summer Sonic 2010:
A Nightmare To Remember
A Rite Of Passage
Prophets of War
Wither
The Count of Tuscany
Encore:
Pull Me Under / Metropolis Pt. 1

Releasing this show (also MP's last with the band) would give us live versions of the 4 BC&SL songs they played that tour, plus "Prophets Of War", which is the only SC song not released in any fashion by the band (the one performance of "Repentance" made it to the Progressive Nation DTIFC). Release this show on DVD and single CD and I'd be a happy DT fan.

As for what Rush would do, at least DT snagged Chycki to helm the recording for DT12, so they're even 1-step closer to doing what Rush would do (on top of having Hugh Syme do their artwork since 8VM).

-Marc.

[Mindflux]

As for what Rush would do, at least DT snagged Chycki to helm the recording for DT12, so they're even 1-step closer to doing what Rush would do (on top of having Hugh Syme do their artwork since 8VM).

-Marc.

If Syme did the artwork for ADToE perhaps it's time to move on. WORST COVER EVER. I'm sick of seeing the unicycling clown already.

[Madman Shepherd]

A medley would be cool.  I remember Dio used to cut off 2 minutes or so from songs so he could fit more in and while it sucked not hearing the first two minutes of Sign of the Southern Cross, i would much rather hear a part of it than none at all. 

[Dublagent66]

Rush is my ALL TIME favorite band and I'm delighted that JP thinks highly of them.  It was also very cool that JP and JLB had Rush's latest record at their #1 album of 2012.  Awesome.

[mike099]

I would pay big bucks to see DT, but more so if it was and 'Evening With' tour.  With the material they have and the lenght of the songs, it makes sense.  They seem to be in great shape, so stanima should not be a problem. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't really care what Dream Theater do at this point. I don't mean that in an arrogant way - I'm just trying to say that whatever they want to do, I'm good with it!

If I had to recommend anything, I would simply say not to get too comfortable. Even something as small as changing cover artists or adding an outside producer can make albums more memorable. If ten years from now the band have five more albums to their name, each with cover art by Hugh Syme, 8-9 songs (2 ballads, 2 heavy songs, and four in the middle), and produced by John Petrucci, they'll have become kind of faceless.

[Unlegit]

Evening With is a must. Didn't they say that they were going to return to this style of show in the future (not necessarily this upcoming tour).

I'd also like to add something else. They should release a live DVD/CD after every tour of a single show. And to be honest, they've done quite well with that (almost every tour has been represented in some shape or form, but not of a single show).

[Perpetual Change]

Rush are generally great role models, except they are, and have always been, pretty clueless in terms of how to make an album sound good from a sonic standpoint.

...And so are DT, unfortunately 

[The Letter M]

Rush are generally great role models, except they are, and have always been, pretty clueless in terms of how to make an album sound good from a sonic standpoint.

...And so are DT, unfortunately 

In that regard, DT *have* been following WWRD!!!

-Marc.

[BlobVanDam]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

[KevShmev]

Cool topic!

I'd love for them to do what Rush did after Signals and completely change producers, or in the case of DT, get an outside producer, perhaps even someone who is not that familiar with the band.  I remember Geddy Lee's attitude was, "Why get a producer who is bringing stuff to the table that we already are?" In a sense, they were bringing in new people who managed to get them to do things they were capable of, but maybe wouldn't have done on their own.  I'd love to see DT challenged by a producer to think outside the box and record in different ways and with different sounds.  Consider that Moving Pictures, Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows and Presto - four albums that really don't sound similar at all - were done in a 9-year span!  I'd love to see DT mix it up like that, and I think they've reached the point where they have a dedicated enough fanbase to where radical changes wouldn't hurt their ultimate bottom line.

[Cedar redaC]

If Dream Theater made their "Power Windows", I would buy it in an instant.

[rumborak]

In terms of album cover, they should do a WWRND. Axe Hugh Syme. And god, stop putting the logo on the cover.

[?]

Having only heard Clockwork Angels (I'll be getting some of their older albums soon, though) I'm just a Rush newbie, but I agree with those who want an outside (co)producer and a return to the " an evening with" sets (I'll probably get to see DT finally on the next tour, so it would be nice if the show was a long one). I'd also love it if JM's bass was mixed more prominently on the next album, and it'd be awesome if DT's career lasted as long as Rush's (unless their songwriting and performances start going downhill too much).

[DebraKadabra]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

[Lynxo]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

Why would we care what Dark Tranquility would do?

[Zydar]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

Yup. It's better they do what THEY want to, instead of following another band.

[Mindflux]

And god, stop putting the logo on the cover.

That's like asking Metallica to not stylize the M and A in the name on their albums.  There might be better examples, but I don't have a problem with the logo.

[BlobVanDam]

And god, stop putting the logo on the cover.

That's like asking Metallica to not stylize the M and A in the name on their albums.  There might be better examples, but I don't have a problem with the logo.

I haven't heard of anyone else with a problem with that logo. I'd be really disappointed if they didn't include it.

[Setlist Scotty]

Axe Hugh Syme. And god, stop putting the logo on the cover.

By that, are you referring to the band's name? The stylized font that they use for the band's name? Or the majesty logo?

If the majesty logo, I like it to still be there, but I agree that they need to be much more creative with it's placement. For instance, if you look at the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary poster I designed, you'll see that the majesty symbol is part of a marble design on the floor of the room, which makes a lot more sense (and fits in the picture) in comparison to what looks like a warped stained on the Black Clouds and Silver Linings cover. And for the cover of ADoTE, I don't have a problem with the majesty logo on the tail of the airplane, but rather how it's placed on there which looks like an afterthought. It would have made more sense if the logo had been oversized on the tail so that you didn't see the entire logo. If you look at the tail designs of many aircraft carriers, that's the way it is (such as Delta, United/Continental, etc.). But I digress...

The only issue I have with Hugh Syme's work is that it seems he's gotten a bit sloppy over the years - even with a few of Rush's things (altho generally not). If Hugh gave DT the same amount of time and effort that he does with Rush in designing their artwork, I'd be fine with them continuing to use him.

[KevShmev]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

Yup. It's better they do what THEY want to, instead of following another band.

I think some of you are missing the point.  No one is suggesting that DT do things exactly like Rush, or that they do already to this, just that DT uses Rush's winning formula as a useful guide. 

[ZirconBlue]

And god, stop putting the logo on the cover.

That's like asking Metallica to not stylize the M and A in the name on their albums.  There might be better examples, but I don't have a problem with the logo.

I haven't heard of anyone else with a problem with that logo. I'd be really disappointed if they didn't include it.

This.

[wasteland]

Yeah, why should they discontinue using one of their trademarks? It's not like the music would be significantly better if they did, or any better at all! In all fairness, I don't think many really care for the artwork with a passion, as long as the music beneath is great.

[Zydar]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

Yup. It's better they do what THEY want to, instead of following another band.

I think some of you are missing the point.  No one is suggesting that DT do things exactly like Rush, or that they do already to this, just that DT uses Rush's winning formula as a useful guide. 

Yeah perhaps I misunderstood. It's fine if they use it just as a guide.

[Scorpion]

I'd rather DT go with WWDTD instead.......

Yup. It's better they do what THEY want to, instead of following another band.

I think some of you are missing the point.  No one is suggesting that DT do things exactly like Rush, or that they do already to this, just that DT uses Rush's winning formula as a useful guide. 

Yeah perhaps I misunderstood. It's fine if they use it just as a guide.

I agree with Zydar. Even though I don't like Rush at all, they do some cool things on the non-musical side that would be cool to see DT do. As long as they don't take musical inspiration...

[Pols Voice]

Please get somebody besides Syme. All of his DT covers seem rushed (no pun intended).

Octavarium - I'll never get over how that ball on the right wouldn't line up if it was rested against the other ones.
SC - Freeways in the background don't line up. Probably intentional because it's "chaotic", but it doesn't look right to me.
BC&SL - Mouse doesn't have a shadow.
ADTOE - Stock photo already used by a band that is a lot like DT, Circus Maximus.

Not to mention the odd bird poo Greatest Hit.

[Fisi]

Sorry for the off-topic, but...

When I saw the title 'WWRD - What would Ru...', I thought it was going to be 'What would Rudess do?'.

I must admit I was a bit disappointed. 

[Cedar redaC]

Sorry for the off-topic, but...

When I saw the title 'WWRD - What would Ru...', I thought it was going to be 'What would Rudess do?'.

I must admit I was a bit disappointed. 

[Mindflux]

ADTOE - Stock photo already used by a band that is a lot like DT, Circus Maximus.

I had to look up the Circus Maximus cover.. sure it's a clown on a unicycle.. but that's where the similarities end. 

[theseoafs]

I agree with Zydar. Even though I don't like Rush at all, they do some cool things on the non-musical side that would be cool to see DT do. As long as they don't take musical inspiration...

Not really sure what this means.  DT takes musical inspiration from Rush rather often.

[Pols Voice]

ADTOE - Stock photo already used by a band that is a lot like DT, Circus Maximus.

I had to look up the Circus Maximus cover.. sure it's a clown on a unicycle.. but that's where the similarities end.

It's the exact same original art, just changed around. Look at the shirt with all the same folds, and the right arm.

[Mindflux]

It's the exact same original art, just changed around. Look at the shirt with all the same folds, and the right arm.

Sorry I don't see it.  Unicycle is different, right arm is bent different.. left arm completely different.  One looks like a render and one looks closer to a photograph.

[theseoafs]

ADTOE and that Circus Maximus record used the same stock photo for their clowns on unicycles. That's well-known, and factual. It doesn't matter in the slightest, but it's true.