DT in the studio again!

[BlobVanDam]

I don't believe anyone is actually impressionable enough to base their opinion on the band's opinion. It's just one of those empty defenses to me. I thought Space Dye Vest was a borefest long before I ever knew MP's feelings on it (I wouldn't agree that most fans adore it anyway).

Well, I KNOW I've mentioned SDV and MP's dislike of it in the same breath here at DTF but honestly?  It wasn't MP's opinion about it that molded mine.  Like Blob, I formed my opinion about it well before I knew what MP's opinion was.

And most fans aren't as in the know as us DTF'ers are to the point of reading forums and knowing how each member feels about a song/album. Coming back to YNM, I can't say I've gotten the indication that its reputation is any higher in the general fanbase than it is here specifically.
I do agree that it doesn't deserve such hate (it's far too average to warrant such a negative reaction), but I don't see that MP plays into this one bit. People make up their own minds.

[Perpetual Change]

Agreed with the current opinions being voiced. In the example of FII, people had always hated on it. Only after the strong (and unfair) reaction from fans did the band (or at least MP) come out with how they were against how the record turned out.

Likewise, John P has stated at different points in time that he felt both Octavarium and Systematic Chaos were the best DT albums, so obviously fans don't just agree with whatever the band say 

[Orbert]

Every album is the greatest thing the band has ever done, according to the band, while it's being made and after its release.  They're thrilled with the results, and know the fans will be, too.  You know the drill.

Then a little time goes by and the excitement wears off, and some fans aren't thrilled with the results, and someone in the band says "Yeah well the label blah blah blah, and we really want to blah blah blah, but I guess blah blah blah".

And let's face it; many fans have strong enough opinions, but many are sheep.  Everyone says the one song sucks, so it must suck.  Didn't you hear?  It's not what the band even wanted to do.

[bosk1]

Agreed with the current opinions being voiced. In the example of FII, people had always hated on it. Only after the strong (and unfair) reaction from fans did the band (or at least MP) come out with how they were against how the record turned out.

Yeah, when I got it, I had no idea what the band thought about it, and I did NOT like it at first.  I had gotten Images back in 1992.  And while I liked it a lot, I never bothered continuing to follow the band.  I heard bits and pieces here and there, including hearing parts of A Change Of Seasons.  But my next DT album wasn't until SFAM.  After Scenes, I went back to fill in the back catalog.  I loved I&W and SFAM.  I ordered Awake and FII from Amazon at the same time, so I got them together.  Listened to Awake first.  Loved it (with the exception of CIAW and SDV).  Listened to FII, and my reaction was, "oh...oh, wow.  This is...not very good."  It took me a little while to learn to appreciate it.

[Perpetual Change]

FII is the only Dream Theater album I can't listen to. There's great songs on it for sure, but there's so many bad ones (and they're *really* bad), that I always wind up skipping them or turning the record off.

[Kotowboy]

I think the good songs on FII make up for the not-as-good ones.

Trial Of Tears
Hell's Kitchen
Lines In The Sand
Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
New Millenium ( I like it ).

Bolded = some of DT's best material.

[hefdaddy42]

FII is the only Dream Theater album I can't listen to. There's great songs on it for sure, but there's so many bad ones (and they're *really* bad), that I always wind up skipping them or turning the record off.

This.  I got it on release day and was sorely disappointed.  It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even though it has some of the best songs in their catalogue.

[The Stray Seed]

I've always loved it.

[cyberdrummer]

FII is probably the album that's grown on me the most. The only tracks I skip now are YNM and TAMP. New Millennium is one of my favourite opening tracks on any DT album!

[Kotowboy]

WDADU is the only album i've not heard due to it's reputation.

I think i started listening to track 1 once but gave up almost immediately due to the quality of the song and the production and the fact that it's not Labrie on vocals.

[cyberdrummer]

You should force yourself to listen, there's some brilliant stuff on that album.

[?]

You should force yourself to listen, there's some brilliant stuff on that album.

This.

FII is good, but certain songs drag it down and make it #8 in my album ranking.

[BlobVanDam]

I personally don't think you're missing anything at all by avoiding WDADU, but I do think every DT album deserves a decent chance to really make up your own mind. And that means at least one listen through the entire album.

[KevShmev]

FII is the only Dream Theater album I can't listen to. There's great songs on it for sure, but there's so many bad ones (and they're *really* bad), that I always wind up skipping them or turning the record off.

This.  I got it on release day and was sorely disappointed.  It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even though it has some of the best songs in their catalogue.

I got it on release day, too, but loved it right away. It sure helped that the opening keyboard line of Lines in the Sand had my jaw in the floor.

WDADU is the only album i've not heard due to it's reputation.

I think i started listening to track 1 once but gave up almost immediately due to the quality of the song and the production and the fact that it's not Labrie on vocals.

Those were hurdles for me at first, too, but once I heard the live versions of several of the songs on Live at the Marquee, I was then able to enjoy WDADU more, and I still think it is better than several of their albums from the 00s.

[me7]

WDADU is the only album i've not heard due to it's reputation.

I think i started listening to track 1 once but gave up almost immediately due to the quality of the song and the production and the fact that it's not Labrie on vocals.

If you want to give it a try, try to get the remastered version. The original release is a really bad master that makes some songs sound cheap and annoying.

[hefdaddy42]

WDADU is the only album i've not heard due to it's reputation.

I think i started listening to track 1 once but gave up almost immediately due to the quality of the song and the production and the fact that it's not Labrie on vocals.

If you want to give it a try, try to get the remastered version. The original release is a really bad master that makes some songs sound cheap and annoying.

Both versions are bad.

[me7]

Both are bad, but the original is way worse.

[chknptpie]

I actually love FII, not sure what you could make of that lol

[TL]

I actually love FII, not sure what you could make of that lol

FII is a great album.
I didn't get into DT until years after it had been released, and had no idea what the general opinions on FII were when I first heard it. I've always gotten the impression that the more negative opinions of the album were very much a 'you had to be there' kind of thing that would have made more sense back in 1997.

As for WDADU, I've always felt that it's a collection of good to great songs, but with bad sound production and the wrong singer (nothing against Charlie, his voice is just more suited to other styles of music). I really wish they'd re-recorded it when James joined the band, but I understand why they wouldn't, and it's certainly possible that they actually couldn't. At least we have some good live versions of some of the songs.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I love FII (it's my mom's favorite album) with the exception of the weaker tracks (You Not Me, Anna Lee). But even those are listenable.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

I love FII (it's my mom's favorite album) with the exception of the weaker tracks (You Not Me, Anna Lee). But even those are listenable.

I wish my mom had a favorite DT album

[fadetoblackdude7]

I love FII (it's my mom's favorite album) with the exception of the weaker tracks (You Not Me, Anna Lee). But even those are listenable.

I wish my mom had a favorite DT album

Lol yeah I got my parents into them, they're in their late 50's.

[wasteland]

Yeah, FII is probably my dad's favourite album. He loves TAMP, but he doesn't know what the song is about. He likes YNM as well.

[darkshade]

About WDADU:

You can either get all the band's official live albums, and you'll have a majority of the album with JLB on vocals (and some of those live versions are kick ass).

Or you can get When Dream and Day Re-Unite, a YTSEJam album, which is the entire album performed live in 2004, plus a couple of bonus songs.
While the debut album isn't everyone's bag, there are at least a couple of songs, depending on your taste, that you shouldn't miss out on.

[Lucien]

Ytse Jam (it's a jam), The Killing Hand, and Only A Matter of Time are amazing.

[Big Hath]

FII and SC are my wife's favorites

[Sketchy]

I distinctly remember several instances of my mother and I jumping round the kitchen to various DT albums. I think Octavarium and ToT are her favourites.

[orcus116]

I still think it is better than several of their albums from the 00s.

Songwriting wise without question. You could even make an argument the lyrics are less corny too.

[Marion Crane]

FII is probably my third favorite DT album.  Right behind SFAM and SDOIT

[j]

Only I&W and Awake are *definitively* better as albums than FII.

SFAM, SDOIT, and ADTOE are all similar in quality; possibly better than FII, but if so not by much.

-J

[Kotowboy]

I'd put FII above SC & BC&SL

[bosk1]

I'd put FII above SC & BC&SL

And the effects that drugs have had on your generation really make me sad.

[BlobVanDam]

I rank FII 5 or 6 places above Awake.
:dealwithit:


I'd put it 4th behind only SDOIT, SFAM, and IaW.


And I've forgotten why we're even discussing FII, but I don't care.

[me7]

FII is probably my third favorite DT album.  Right behind SFAM and SDOIT

Only I&W and Awake are *definitively* better as albums than FII.

SFAM, SDOIT, and ADTOE are all similar in quality; possibly better than FII, but if so not by much.

-J

I'd put FII above SC & BC&SL

I better stay out of this thread for a few pages, otherwise I'll say some offensive things that might get me banned...

[MoraWintersoul]

And I've forgotten why we're even discussing FII, but I don't care.

Because in this thread you must discuss EVERYTHING BUT the upcoming DT album