Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[gzarruk]

Yes, there's a lot GREAT drumming in OVM and SC, specially the latter. For BC&SL he sounds very sterile and like he just didn't care too much, imo.  That blastbeat wasn't good, AROP has the worst MP fill ever recorded and he overplayed in many parts of Wither. TBOT has a very cool intro but the rest is MP by the numbers. TCOT and TSF do have very good/consistent drumming, though.

[nikatapi]

Agreed about MP's drumming. After TOT it felt like i knew each fill and each cymbal hit before it was even played. Still very enjoyable drumming, but nothing mindblowing.

[hefdaddy42]

TBH, I think there is a lot of overplaying by MP on I&W.  I don't think it's so bad as to be tasteless, but nevertheless.

I also understand that the triggers don't do it any favors.

[Ganjalf]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

[ToT-147]

  Good one..

[King Postwhore]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

This is just foolish.  I go in knowing the expectations are lessened because of age. That goes for all or them.

[Architeuthis]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

YIKES,,  Pretty bold for a 3rd post!  But........NO! James Labrie rocks and is irreplaceable imo.
Anyway, welcome to the forum.. 

[Zook]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

YIKES,,  Pretty bold for a 3rd post!  But........NO! James Labrie rocks and is irreplaceable imo.
Anyway, welcome to the forum.. 

His last post was 2 years ago.

[PetFish]

His last post was 2 years ago.

I wonder what prompts trolls to come out randomly like this.  No real reason for this one.  Meh.

[Ganjalf]

I'm not trolling, it's just my honest opinion. I'm not saying it to provoke and you definitely don't have to agree with me. I respect your disagreement.

Have i missed the point of this thread..?

[ToT-147]

I'm not trolling, it's just my honest opinion. I'm not saying it to provoke and you definitely don't have to agree with me. I respect your disagreement.

Have i missed the point of this thread..?

Yes, you have:

I thought this might be an interesting topic-- thinking of any thoughts you have on DT songs or albums that you think will spark mass debate and not sit well with the general crowd.

[dream75]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

When did you stop going to concerts?

[Ganjalf]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

When did you stop going to concerts?

After the Astonishing tour. I had only seen them one time before on the Along for the ride tour, but i guess i was just so excited to finally see them that i didn't really care. But The Astonishing was HORRIBLE! After that i didn't want to see him butcher Images & Words on the anniversary tour as well so i decided that i won't be going to their future concerts. It's much better to watch their dvds and blu-rays. Especially Score since it's totally dubbed.

[geeeemo]

They should fire LaBrie. I think they even know that. I've stopped going to their concerts because of him.

When did you stop going to concerts?

After the Astonishing tour. I had only seen them one time before on the Along for the ride tour, but i guess i was just so excited to finally see them that i didn't really care. But The Astonishing was HORRIBLE! After that i didn't want to see him butcher Images & Words on the anniversary tour as well so i decided that i won't be going to their future concerts. It's much better to watch their dvds and blu-rays. Especially Score since it's totally dubbed.

What!?? The Astonishing was an awesome concert. And JLB was sounding great! I saw it 3 times, traveling twice.

[KevShmev]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.  I'd still go see them if they came to St. Louis, but I doubt I'd travel to see them ever again.

[ToT-147]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.

I think I have read and heard several times that very same thing.. I have the strong impression that most people who likes James' nowaday performances are those that actually go to see him, and that most people that do not like how he sounds are people judging him by youtube videos... (which, like in this case, it could happen simultaneously)

[Volante99]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.

I think I have read and heard several times that very same thing.. I have the strong impression that most people who likes James' nowaday performances are those that actually go to see him, and that most people that do not like how he sounds are people judging him by youtube videos... (which, like in this case, it could happen simultaneously)

It's been said before but cell phone recordings can be super unforgiving. Every time I see them I always first watch some YouTube videos and get nervous about how LaBrie is going to perform, but when it comes to concert time, LIVE, he does fine and I always go home impressed. An actual rock/metal concert is pushing some serious decibels and in the onslaught of sound and experience you don't really notice or even care if LaBrie is or isn't 100% on pitch. That said I did NOT see them on the last tour.

But he sounded good on the Astonishing, and GREAT on Along for the Ride. I'm fairly confident he'll be able to pull off Scenes.

[DreamerTV]

I've never, ever, come back home unhappy from a DT concert because of a JLB night off. And i've seen them on every tour cicle since 2005.
If anything, the only time I didn't like a gig it was because of the package (damn PN '09) and a setlist made so most of the time James wasn't on stage.

And, for sure, for the reasons Volante99 said, if you go home looking back on YT of what you thought was a perfect night for him you might find it wasn't, thing is: why do I have to look for proofs I was wrong about something I actually felt great about?!

[MirrorMask]

Concerts are all about the experience, being there in the moment. If it seemed good to you when you was there, then it was good. If you think that Petrucci played flawlessly, then he played flawlessly, no matter if he did a minor screwup that, if you enhance a lot a YouTube video and raise your espensive headphones to the maximum, you are then able to hear.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Honestly that's kind of my gripe with singular live songs in general. I don't think you can really get that "concert experience" without the context of the entire set, so if you try to play just one song it's always just "hey, here's the song again but worse".

[MoraWintersoul]

Especially Score since it's totally dubbed.

It's not. Live at Budokan is the only one of their newer DVDs (with MP, afterwards no one asked them about those things) that has vocal overdubs.

[Ganjalf]

Especially Score since it's totally dubbed.

It's not. Live at Budokan is the only one of their newer DVDs (with MP, afterwards no one asked them about those things) that has vocal overdubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDcEBq9GrLk

If you can't hear the difference i don't know what to say..

[bosk1]

I'm not trolling, it's just my honest opinion. I'm not saying it to provoke and you definitely don't have to agree with me. I respect your disagreement.

Have i missed the point of this thread..?

Yes, you have:

I thought this might be an interesting topic-- thinking of any thoughts you have on DT songs or albums that you think will spark mass debate and not sit well with the general crowd.

Not only that, but Rule #12:

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

Calling for a band member to be fired is CLEARLY crossing the line.  Any similar types of comments may result in a ban from the forums.

[Ganjalf]

Wow.. i guess i'm done posting here then if you can't handle an honest opinion. 

[bosk1]

Wow.. i guess i'm done posting here then if you can't handle an honest opinion. 

Up to you.  But it's more an issue of whether you can handle following rules.  You are welcome to have any opinion you like.  And, within reasonable bounds, you are welcome to express that opinion.  As we often say, for the most part, it isn't what you say, but how you say it.  Again, whether you choose to abide by that is on you.  If so, by all means stay.  If not...well, that's easy too. 

[King Postwhore]

For sure James voice is the weak link live.  We all know that but they are not going to throw him out for that.  Bands work around that as they get older.

[Herrick]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.

I think I have read and heard several times that very same thing.. I have the strong impression that most people who likes James' nowaday performances are those that actually go to see him, and that most people that do not like how he sounds are people judging him by youtube videos... (which, like in this case, it could happen simultaneously)

I've only seen them once which was on the Images and Words anniversary tour. I thought LaBrie sounded good if a bit grating on the ears. I rarely go to concerts so maybe I'm just not used to the volume. Everything was so loud that his vocals weren't as clear as they are on a YouTube video. Plus I was very hyped and very drunk. I'd be interested to hear some cellphone recording of that night I went to see them.

[KevShmev]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.

I think I have read and heard several times that very same thing.. I have the strong impression that most people who likes James' nowaday performances are those that actually go to see him, and that most people that do not like how he sounds are people judging him by youtube videos... (which, like in this case, it could happen simultaneously)

Boring fans who go to concerts to intently listen to every little thing to point out any mistake notwithstanding , it's easy to get swept up in the euphoria of a concert and not notice mistakes, flubs, rough vocals, etc.  Heck, Geddy Lee sounded pretty rough the last few Rush tours, but I barely noticed at the shows I saw and still enjoyed the hell out of them, so it's easy to do the same thing with Dream Theater shows and JLB's vocals.

[Herrick]

Wow.. i guess i'm done posting here then if you can't handle an honest opinion. 

I don't think what you said was that bad but it would've went down a little better if you said LaBrie should be replaced.

[Setlist Scotty]

JLB sounded good when I saw them on the Astonishing tour, but most of the clips I saw from the I&W And Beyond tour were rough to watch, to put it nicely.

I think I have read and heard several times that very same thing.. I have the strong impression that most people who likes James' nowaday performances are those that actually go to see him, and that most people that do not like how he sounds are people judging him by youtube videos... (which, like in this case, it could happen simultaneously)

Boring fans who go to concerts to intently listen to every little thing to point out any mistake notwithstanding , it's easy to get swept up in the euphoria of a concert and not notice mistakes, flubs, rough vocals, etc.  Heck, Geddy Lee sounded pretty rough the last few Rush tours, but I barely noticed at the shows I saw and still enjoyed the hell out of them, so it's easy to do the same thing with Dream Theater shows and JLB's vocals.

Certainly the excitement of the show (and the loud volume) can cause a fan to gloss over some of the finer details of a performance, including the flaws, but if the flaws are significant enough, the excitement won't be enough to ignore them. When I saw DT at the RCMH show in 2006, JP's guitar dropped out during UaGM (magically fixed for Score!), and there was no way anyone wouldn't notice that.

And even when I saw Rush for the last time, which happened to be their very last show in LA, I remember thinking to myself "boy I really hope Geddy's able to make it through this show, because he really seems to be struggling". Previously I had not been critical of Geddy's vocals, nor had I been making any effort whatsoever to notice any flaws in his singing, but it was way too obvious that I couldn't help but notice.

I'd say the same thing is true about JL's performances. I've seen them at least once on every tour since 1993, and while I know he'd sometimes hit some flat notes or struggle to reach some high notes at various shows throughout the years, I can't say that there's ever been a show that has stood out to me that made me think he was really struggling. That goes for every tour up to 2016. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the tour last year (first time I missed a DT tour), so I can't comment on those shows from personal experience. But while there are no doubt many armchair quarterbacks that are critiquing JL's performances based strictly on what they see on YouTube, I've seen enough comments from those in attendance at those 2017 shows who said they could tell JL was struggling. A few may have been the "boring fans" Kev's referring to who were looking for every little mistake, but that's not the case with most of them, any more than I was when I saw the aforementioned DT and Rush shows. So I don't think ToT-147's comments are very accurate.

[cramx3]

As someone who has recorded some DT music live, I concur that I don't notice the mistakes until I listen afterwards.  In the moment I always come away thinking JLB sounded great, and on most of the videos he does.  But there's definitely spots from both the TA shows (Lord Nefaryus spots) and I&W where you could easily notice him struggling on the recordings (and to further prove that, my gf spotted one while I was watching my video and she had never heard the song before, just made an off hand comment while she was doing something else along the lines of "wow, the singer really is struggling there").  JLB overall is good for me though, he sounds mostly great and I think the band will continue to write music and perform songs in a way that better suite his aging voice. 

[ToT-147]

@Setlist Scotty - Fair enough.. But I guess none of us here is really trying to be "accurate".. Saying "most of people...", "a few", "enough comments..." has nothing to do with accuracy.. We're rather sharing different experiencies and point of views about this very old and trite subject (or well trodden, or played out... well, a cliche, you got the idea)..

@KevShmev - Since you were at first talking about clips that were rough to watch, and I then talked about James' performance, I was really including the whole acting he does on stage in my comment, not only the singing part.. Once you're in the show, you're seeing him moving around, shaking his head, clapping and interacting with the crowd.. With youtube videos, you don't have any of that, so I think that euphoria is an intrinsic part of the experience of going to see him and seeing the band.....

(and none of the following is directed at any of you in particular)

..... Because we're really seeing the band after all.. I mean, and I've been wanted to say this for a very long time, I think criticism against James, besides being very excessive and unfair, is directly fallacious.. I think that if we like a certain band, therefore we should go to the shows to see the entire band, right?... not just the singer.. And if we're in the mood to criticize a band as if we were a jury of music specialists rather than fans, then we should criticize the whole band and not just focus on destroying one of the members.. Much less when it comes to the hardest instrument to execute correctly (the voice) and when it comes to one of the most demanding bands in terms of that same instrument... and when we're not talking about any young singer precisely, ETC...

[IDontNotDoThings]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most band members fired for personality reasons rather than their strength as a performer? I mean, whether you love or hate LaBrie, we can't really tell how well he still "gels" with the other members creatively.

[Herrick]

(and none of the following is directed at any of you in particular)

..... Because we're really seeing the band after all.. I mean, and I've been wanted to say this for a very long time, I think criticism against James, besides being very excessive and unfair, is directly fallacious.. I think that if we like a certain band, therefore we should go to the shows to see the entire band, right?... not just the singer.. And if we're in the mood to criticize a band as if we were a jury of music specialists rather than fans, then we should criticize the whole band and not just focus on destroying one of the members.. Much less when it comes to the hardest instrument to execute correctly (the voice) and when it comes to one of the most demanding bands in terms of that same instrument... and when we're not talking about any young singer precisely, ETC...

I don't understand your position on this. Why is it fallacious to criticize one member in a band? If that band member is always fucking up (and I'm not saying LaBrie is guilty of this) then that band member can bring the whole performance down. Let's say the guitar player is terrible but the rest of the band is amazing. Why should the talents of the rest of the band shield the guitarist from criticism?

[Cool Chris]

...we can't really tell how well he still "gels" with the other members creatively.

We can't really know how any band member gels with other members, just like you can't really know about couples. Ever known a couple who told you they were getting divorced, and couldn't believe it because you never would have thought anything was wrong?