Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[emtee]

From my perspective 8V was DT's least sounding DT album. MP was channeling Muse in a big way. He was really digging that
Muse album and the influence was front and center.

[?]

Yeah, if I had to pick the "least DT-sounding" album, it would definitely be Octavarium. Most of the songs sound like tributes to other bands instead of representing DT's own sound, which is one of the reasons I don't like the album that much. They went too far with the inspiration corner IMO...

[GasparXR]

From my perspective 8V was DT's least sounding DT album. MP was channeling Muse in a big way. He was really digging that
Muse album and the influence was front and center.

How do we know it was MP that wanted to channel Muse? From what I remember, JLB was/is also a fan of Muse, and he wrote the lyrics to Prophets of War which has also been compared to Muse.

[rumborak]

I remember how I had been listening to Absolution for months before 8V came out, and being really disappointed by the blatant references to Absolution on it.

[Zook]

I remember not liking Muse and still not liking Muse.

[lithium112]

Besides Never Enough, what songs on there sound like Muse? I'm still not buying the Panic Attack comparison.

[rumborak]

What is there not "to buy"? The whole bridge of the song is 100% Muse, complete with Bellamy's signature falsettos at the end.

Other than that, there's of course the U2 song.

[Zook]

I Walk Beside You is amazing.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I'd agree that 8V is their least "DT" sounding album. That or FII. I wouldn't count WDADU since that was before the sound was even established, so it's not that fair to it.

[GasparXR]

I'd agree that 8V is their least "DT" sounding album. That or FII. I wouldn't count WDADU since that was before the sound was even established, so it's not that fair to it.

I agree, but I do think WDADU sounds much more like DT than 8VM or FII do. I hear a pretty clear foundation for the type of sound they put out on Images and Words, at least the rockier, heavier metal stuff, not so much the ballads.

[BlobVanDam]

I think the whole idea of whether an album sounds "more like DT" is silly, and trivial.
They all sound like DT, and at the same time add to what DT's sound is, each one having a different balance of their elements. 8V is a very diverse album, and covers a lot of DT's core elements and sounds. FII is less prog, but showcases the melodic side that has made DT a standout in the genre, and still has its fair share of long proggy songs, attention to detail, and instrumental goodness.

Some albums just may focus less on the element(s) that an individual is drawn to DT for, while focusing on DT's other elements that are just as much a defining part of their sound. But it's all DT being DT.

[Nearmyth]

FII is definitely the "least DT-sounding" album, or well it's the most different sounding one stylistically, in my opinion. Any of the music from that time period actually, cotc and all that. Much more rock-y than prog (though it has its share of prog) and literally 0 metal besides BMS (give or take a couple). It was a really cool style for DT, I'm glad that little era of music exists.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

All DT albums are DT, but some are more DT than others.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think the whole idea of whether an album sounds "more like DT" is silly, and trivial.

This.

I mean, imagine going back to 1998, when FII just came out, coming up to a DT fan and playing A Nightmare To Remember for them. Would they think it sounds like DT? I highly doubt it. Their sound evolved greatly throughout the years, but there are still a lot of very signature traits that make it Dream Theater.

The only think I will say for FII was that it was the most jarring change from its predecessor. With every other album, there's a more gradual change to them, but with FII, it was stylistically very different from Awake. But hardly "unDT sounding".

[hefdaddy42]

When FII came out, it seemed drastically different, so much so that I was extremely disappointed. 

[Nearmyth]

Of course all DT is DT, I think everyone just means the most different from the staple DT sound.

[TheGreatPretender]

Of course all DT is DT, I think everyone just means the most different from the staple DT sound.

But that still depends on what you'd call the "staple DT sound". They had a drastically different sound in the 90s, than they do now. By today's standards, I wouldn't call Awake "DT sounding".

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't know that DT ever really had a "drastically different" sound. They've stayed mostly within their style, as far as I can tell.

[King Postwhore]

Of course all DT is DT, I think everyone just means the most different from the staple DT sound.

But that still depends on what you'd call the "staple DT sound". They had a drastically different sound in the 90s, than they do now. By today's standards, I wouldn't call Awake "DT sounding".

The easiest way to explain it is when you hear a song not know it's DT and you say, "This sounds like DT."  No matter the recording method or the influences of the music scene from that time it's "DT".

[Grizz]

I think that stating that FII deviates from the DT sound is as short-sited as saying The Adventure of Link deviates from the Zelda formula. One must consider the amount of precedent that's set.

[KevShmev]

What is there not "to buy"? The whole bridge of the song is 100% Muse, complete with Bellamy's signature falsettos at the end.

Other than that, there's of course the U2 song.

A. I Walk Beside You does not sound like U2.

b. Matt Bellamy did not invent the falsetto, or even that type of falsetto.

I do think 8V is ripe with moments that sound like other bands, but I just wanted to make those two points.

[Outcrier]

Bellamy ripped those falsettos from Thom Yorke, who ripped them from Jeff Buckley, something like this 

[rumborak]

What is there not "to buy"? The whole bridge of the song is 100% Muse, complete with Bellamy's signature falsettos at the end.

Other than that, there's of course the U2 song.

A. I Walk Beside You does not sound like U2.

I didn't even mention the song. How did you know it was that one I meant?

[King Postwhore]

Rumbo, the talk on that song has been on DTF for about 9 years.


I don't think it's a blatant rip but they were engulfed at the time with a certain band.  Hell, I've heard Rush even do this.

[TheGreatPretender]

But it's still ultimately like Blob said. They still sound like DT songs, just with a flavor of other bands' stylistic influences.
If you compared IWBY to a regular DT song (like such a thing even exists), then sure, it's easy to say, "Well, this song sounds like U2 in comparison." But if you compare IWBY to an actual U2 song, it's night and day, and IWBY clearly sounds like DT. Heck, if U2's music sounded like IWBY, I might actually be a fan.

[BlobVanDam]

What is there not "to buy"? The whole bridge of the song is 100% Muse, complete with Bellamy's signature falsettos at the end.

Other than that, there's of course the U2 song.

A. I Walk Beside You does not sound like U2.

I didn't even mention the song. How did you know it was that one I meant?

Even DT have admitted it was a U2 inspired song.

Oh, I have a great idea! DT should write a sequel to the song, called "I Walk Beside You 2". GET IT?

[KevShmev]

Then maybe DT should listen to U2 more if they are looking to write a song in their vein, cause it really sounds almost nothing like them.

[King Postwhore]

But Kev, it has an uplifting chorus like Beautiful Day!!

why are people shocked when pop culture, style of the time influence bands that lest decades?!

U2 -- electronica
DT -- Roo Rooohhss!!!!
Rush -- Dry Vocal recordings, keyboards, shorter songs.... ect...

[rumborak]

Kev, I guess I have to take your word for it that you don't hear the similarity, but if even DT acknowledges it...

[KevShmev]

My guess is DT said that because they probably tried to write a song in the vein of U2, but it didn't come out that way.  The guitar riff, the drums, the keys, etc. - none of it sound like something U2 has or would do.  And U2 doesn't have a patent on uplifting choruses.

[rumborak]

Wtf, it's not the uplifting chorus that makes it U2. The biggest factor is JP playing like The Edge on that track.

[Bolsters]

Then maybe DT should listen to U2 more if they are looking to write a song in their vein, cause it really sounds almost nothing like them.

Probably why I like it then.

[NotePad]

I also remember listening to Absolution before 8VM came out and liked it, but didn't love it. And i remember really hoping DTs next album didn't take any influence from it. But of course we all know what happened there. They blatantly ripped-0ff Muse. In the bad way. I love Tool, and DTs past Tool sounding influence was a perfect balance and not over the top like they did with the 8VM/Muse thing.

I have this feeling that most of that outright obvious influence stuff, like the Muse and Tool thing, was mainly because of MP. And i bet now there will be much less of it. Other then the Rush influence which has always been there.

But at the same time, I'd like to see MP back in the band. BC&SL was not a great album and not the last DT album MP should have been on.

Another opinion: ADTOE was Dream Theater trying to channel I&W. IMO not a good thing. I'd prefer if they channeled Awake, but I have a feeling even they don't know what they did on Awake that makes it the way it is

[lithium112]

What is there not "to buy"? The whole bridge of the song is 100% Muse, complete with Bellamy's signature falsettos at the end.

First of all the bridge is like 40 seconds out of a 7+ min song. I would hardly call that an overwhelming Muse influence. Secondly, that section is really not that far off stylistically from other things DT has done and I've never heard a drum pattern like that in a Muse song. This is why I don't buy the Muse analogy. Is there a specific Muse song that section sounds like?

Yes, Never Enough sounds totally like it could've been written by Muse if they were a lot more technically proficient. But that's one song on the record.

[XB0BX]

All things considered, I think Systematic Chaos is probably one of DT's best albums.