Anyone else not read the lyrics?

[Ice9ine]

Hi guys,

It just occured to me that after a solid 15+ years of being an avid DT fan, I have only once read the lyrics to one album, SFAM.

I am sure many or most of you read the lyrics in the CD booklet cover to cover whilst listening initially and maybe until you know them all.

I can only remember doing it once. I may have skipped through some randomly but generally it is fair to say....I dont know 90% of DT lyrics accurately.

Discuss if you want whether you study DT lyrics thoroughly, or like me, if you are more focused on the music.

P.S Maybe thats why TCOT has never bothered me and is imo one of DT's best songs.

Cheers,

[alirocker08]

I concentrate a lot on lyrics, although I don't go out of my way to read them. With most of DTs discography I've heard the songs enough times to be able to sing along accurately, I only look up the lyrics when I consider doing a cover.

[BlobVanDam]

I usually pick up the lyrics just from listening to the songs, and only refer to the lyrics sheet if there are parts I can't understand (which there are quite a few with DT).

I don't consider lyrics very important, however I do like to know the lyrics to the music I listen to, to know what the song is about, and to sing along.

[YtseJamittaja]

I don't listen to lyrics at all. I can sing all DT's songs from memory but, because English is not my mother language, I never bothered to think about the meanings.

I usually think that vocals is just an another instrument in the song. I just listen to how well the lyrics works and rhymes.

[wolfking]

I've read through SFAM once or twice, but I don't think I've read through any of their other albums.  Just bands in general, I never read lyrics, not even concept album 95% of the time.

[ZKX-2099]

I usually pick up the lyrics just from listening to the songs, and only refer to the lyrics sheet if there are parts I can't understand (which there are quite a few with DT).

I don't consider lyrics very important, however I do like to know the lyrics to the music I listen to, to know what the song is about, and to sing along.

Me 2 a t.

Anyways there's been few times where I needed to look up lyrics. James is pretty crisp on the lyrics.

[Sycsa]

James is pretty crisp on the lyrics.

Indeed. Although don't tell me you can understand his falsetto parts. 

[IdoSC]

Well, in a nutshell, I absolutely care about lyrics. Although I only google up lyrics when the fact that English is my second language is taking a leak all over my face. But otherwise, I do take the time to listen to them, understand and interpret them, and if I can't do so, I even bother to look up their meaning if the song interests me enough.

Once I even bothered to go out of my way and ask about a few songs' meanings and origins (of songs written by JLB, either for DT or from his solo albums) in the James LaBrie forum, and to my incredible surprise, James LaBrie answered himself after a while. That was quite nice to see, especially since now I know that Disappear is about a couple he saw at the mall or something like that, and His Voice is about his friend who died.

So in short I do take lyrics into consideration. Sometimes they make me appreciate the song even more, most of the times (in DT's case) I feel so indifferent towards them that they don't matter to me at all, and sometimes (TCOT) it ruins the song to me.

[Cedar redaC]

Sometimes, it really does help to read through lyrics. Ayreon's The Human Equation for example. It would make no sense unless you knew who was singing what.

[Adami]

Ever since 6 Degrees, reading the lyrics is just depressing. I generally don't read them unless there's a section that I just can't make out by listening to it and it drives me nuts. But generally I have no desire to read DT lyrics anymore.

[fps]

Dream Theater's lyrics are absolutely hilarious, and I get a good few laughs out of reading them every album, it's part of the fun.

[Adami]

Dream Theater's lyrics are absolutely hilarious, and I get a good few laughs out of reading them every album, it's part of the fun.

Awake and some of FII has some great lyrics. I&W too to an extent.

[7thHanyou]

Dream Theater's lyrics are absolutely hilarious, and I get a good few laughs out of reading them every album, it's part of the fun.

Awake and some of FII has some great lyrics. I&W too to an extent.

I enjoy Images and Words' lyrics the most by far, myself.  I know they're pretty conventional prog lyrics, somewhat in the vein of Yes and early King Crimson, but I like that kind of stuff.  It's interesting, poetic, and goes very well with the music.  This also applies somewhat to When Dream and Day Unite, though the lyrics are a bit more clumsy there.

Awake is more literal and it has rough spots (Lie, for example), but songs like Scarred make up for it.  Heck, literal lyrics are used to great effect in 6:00, where the music promotes a real sense of urgency.

I think FII is where things start to go wrong.  Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears are great, Hollow Years and New Millennium and even Just Let Me Breathe are okay for what they are, but then you have truly wtf lyrics like Peruvian Skies, where I think the words just take away from the music.

Even though SFAM was my first Dream Theater album and remains my second-favorite, that's where the downhill slide really starts for me.  There are flashes of brilliance after that, but for the most part, they're either just ok (TMoLS and I Walk Beside You, for instance) or laughable (Honor Thy Father).  It doesn't help that James LaBrie generally sings clearly enough for me to understand almost every word on newer albums...no cases of Innocence Faded here.  Because of that, I can't even listen to The Count of Tuscany, even though the music itself is great.

A Dramatic Turn of  Events seems to go back to Awake-FII level lyrics from what I've seen, but admittedly I haven't listened to it much.  In any case, I'm not sure it's a problem anymore.

I rarely read the lyrics because I rarely have to, but they still have an effect on my listening experience, which makes post-FII albums unpleasant sometimes.

[Adami]

Lyrically ADTOE isn't any better than their last few albums, they're just more serious. JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles, and songs like Outcry are just so immensely ethnocentric that I just can't bare to hear the lyrics.

[Dellers]

...JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles...

Then how come I read Wikipedia articles all the time and don't understant a thing when it comes to his or other people's lyrics? Lyrics are understandable to certain people, Wikipedia is understandable to everyone who can read. The understanding of lyrics requires some brain part that not everyone have. I for one don't have it. The Spirit Carries On is along with Kool & The Gang's song Fresh the only ones where I am able to get something from the lyrics. Absolutely every other song out there is like hearing bla bla bla. I understand the words, but don't catch the meaning. I'm more of a math and language kind of guy.

[Western Ninja]

That's a really good way of putting JP's recent lyrics, a lot of them do have the wiki article feel.

"This is what happened, in this order, in exactly this way" kind of thing. No art/poetry, in a sense.

[rumborak]

I take it AROP is by JP? That thing is a total Wikipedia article.

[Adami]

...JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles...

Then how come I read Wikipedia articles all the time and don't understant a thing when it comes to his or other people's lyrics? Lyrics are understandable to certain people, Wikipedia is understandable to everyone who can read. The understanding of lyrics requires some brain part that not everyone have. I for one don't have it. The Spirit Carries On is along with Kool & The Gang's song Fresh the only ones where I am able to get something from the lyrics. Absolutely every other song out there is like hearing bla bla bla. I understand the words, but don't catch the meaning. I'm more of a math and language kind of guy.

I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. I assume English isn't your first language if you can't understand lyrics. It has nothing to do with parts of the brain as far as I know.

Just about every JP song since SFAM is the most straight forward blatant song, there's no possible way to read them and not understand what they're about.

[Zook]

That's not a bad thing though. Not all lyrics have to be a mystery.

[Adami]

That's not a bad thing though. Not all lyrics have to be a mystery.

Them being straightforward isn't bad.

Them being bad is bad.

I was just pointing out blatant they are because he said he couldn't understand any of them.

[energythief]

Lyrics are one of the most important parts of any song, to me. I cannot handle listening to songs where the lyrics detract from or even contradict what the music is trying to say. I'm one of the few that will never be able to like TCOT and ANTR, except in their instrumental versions.

[BlobVanDam]

That's a really good way of putting JP's recent lyrics, a lot of them do have the wiki article feel.

"This is what happened, in this order, in exactly this way" kind of thing. No art/poetry, in a sense.

citation needed

[manticore999]

For the most part, the lyrics are secondary to the music for me.  TCOT lyrics were just so bad, though, that I couldn't overlook them. It ruined the song for me.  DT are hit and miss that way - sometimes the lyrics are like poetry set to music, and sometimes they're like hight school kid angst or something equally cringe-worthy (TCOT, ANTR, etc.). 

[Dellers]

I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. I assume English isn't your first language if you can't understand lyrics. It has nothing to do with parts of the brain as far as I know.

Just about every JP song since SFAM is the most straight forward blatant song, there's no possible way to read them and not understand what they're about.

English isn't my first language, no, but that doesn't have anything to do with it. I could live in the US without a problem, I even think in English a lot. I don't understand Norwegian lyrics either. To me lyrics are a bit like poems and Ibsen (all those old authors really), I just don't get it. I guess most people understand that stuff, but I do know others that feel the same way as myself (well, most of them are stupid in general). If JP's lyrics were like a Wikipedia article, or even like a university book, I'd understand it.

[Zydar]

For the most part, the lyrics are secondary to the music for me.

This is true for me regardless of band/artist. My main interest has always been the music. If the songs have nice lyrics, then it's a bonus.

[Ruba]

I often read lyrics and they are one very important element in music for me. I mean, like Rush's 2112. The music is great, but the lyrics are the thing, that makes it stand out from the all great songs in the world. If it would tell about growing a beard, it would be funny, but definately not even close to it's current awesomeness.

But for some reason, I don't find TCOT lyrics cheesy the slighest.

[kirksnosehair]

Over the years I'd guess that I've been able to figure out about 85% of the lyrics to Dream Theater's music just by listening to the songs, but there are always things that I can't understand.  For example, I read the lyrics to "Images & Words" after I'd had the album for a couple of months because there were a few lines and phrases here and there that were completely unintelligible.


Some of the high parts in "Surrounded"  -- for example, these lines:


"I sent the spirits tumbling down the hill, But I will hold this one on high above me still"


Sound like:


"I seh the sparah tahbla dah dah hah!  buh ah wah hah dis wah on hah abamah stah!"

[lithium112]

Lyrically ADTOE isn't any better than their last few albums, they're just more serious. JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles, and songs like Outcry are just so immensely ethnocentric that I just can't bare to hear the lyrics.

Why do you think Outcry is ethnocentric?

[Adami]

Lyrically ADTOE isn't any better than their last few albums, they're just more serious. JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles, and songs like Outcry are just so immensely ethnocentric that I just can't bare to hear the lyrics.

Why do you think Outcry is ethnocentric?

To be honest I'm just assuming it's Outcry, I don't listen to the album very often and most of the songs blur together for me.

It's the song about the middle easterners fighting for freedom. The song is written from the oh so popular right wing american point of view that for some reason all rebels fighting against their government are just like American rebels fighting for independence. He seems to believe they're all fighting for freedom and democracy and the same things Americans fought for. It's rather ethnocentric considering how vastly different things actually are.

[Ben_Jamin]

Lyrically ADTOE isn't any better than their last few albums, they're just more serious. JP's lyrics still tend to read like wikipedia articles, and songs like Outcry are just so immensely ethnocentric that I just can't bare to hear the lyrics.

Why do you think Outcry is ethnocentric?

To be honest I'm just assuming it's Outcry, I don't listen to the album very often and most of the songs blur together for me.

It's the song about the middle easterners fighting for freedom. The song is written from the oh so popular right wing american point of view that for some reason all rebels fighting against their government are just like American rebels fighting for independence. He seems to believe they're all fighting for freedom and democracy and the same things Americans fought for. It's rather ethnocentric considering how vastly different things actually are.

"we fight for is just, for all that we believe"

[Adami]

"We fight till death or glory, fight to be set free"

It's an american wet dream.

[lithium112]

"We fight till death or glory, fight to be set free"

It's an american wet dream.

Yeah there are a few references to "freedom" in there. I guess it's somewhat up to interpretation. I think what JP is portraying in this song is that they are fighting for freedom from an oppressive regime. What do you think they are fighting for?

(Genuinely curious - I never really thought about the song this way so I'd love to get your thoughts. Also, sorry if I misinterpreted what you're saying.)

[Adami]

If you feel like PMing me about the middle eastern issues, I'd be glad to discuss them, but I don't want to turn this thread into a P/R thing, you know?

Anywho, sometimes lyrics can either ruin a song or help a song but a lot of time they just sit there harmlessly. If the lyrics are "okay" as in not good or not bad, then I can just kind of sit with them. But if they'r really bad (like a lot of DT lyrics for the past 10 years) then they drag down the song.

[TheGreatPretender]

To be honest I'm just assuming it's Outcry, I don't listen to the album very often and most of the songs blur together for me.

It's the song about the middle easterners fighting for freedom. The song is written from the oh so popular right wing american point of view that for some reason all rebels fighting against their government are just like American rebels fighting for independence. He seems to believe they're all fighting for freedom and democracy and the same things Americans fought for. It's rather ethnocentric considering how vastly different things actually are.

Well, if that's what he wrote the song about, that's his business. But the lyrics in Outcry are written ambiguously enough that they could be about anything. Any kind of resistance rising up against oppression theme. It could be about Star Wars, if that's what the listener wants. Could be about the war with the cyborgs from The Terminator, or about The Matrix.
A lot of lyrics are written in that way, and I think Outcry succeeds at that. It's not like OTBOA which specifically references "The American Dream" which automatically gives it a place and makes it a little more obvious.
If JP wrote it about the war in the Middle East, and that's what the song means to him, that's fine. To me, it doesn't even come close.

[Adami]

I totally respect you wanting to defend JP and stuff, but "As long as he's doing what he wants to do, then everything is fine" isn't very conducive to conversation, in fact it's counter-conducive.

And I'm pretty JP has blatantly stated that Outcry is about the middle east. Everything JP writes these days is rather specific, I doubt he wrote a song about Star Wars.