Geoff Tate and JLB

[WildeSilas]

I was listening to Empire today for the first time in a long time and was really struck with how similar Tate sounds to JLB on I&W and Awake. I know the guys all cited QR as an early influence, but aren't they all roughly the same age? Mindcrime came out four years before I&W, but is that long enough for JLB to have been so influenced by him. You'd think it was the same singer on both albums in many places. I do remember JP and MP saying on the Score documentary that they really wanted someone who sounded like Geoff Tate, but holy cow. I can't even recall JLB counting Tate among his influences - he typically cites Freddie Mercury, Geddy Lee, etc. Anyway, this is about the only place I could share my realization without everyone asking, "JLWhat now?"

[Perpetual Change]

James has always sounded like James, even in the Winter Rose days.  And he has always been a much better singer than Tate.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't find any similarities there at all. If you said, "Ray Adler kinda sounds like Tate" I'd completely agree, and wouldn't doubt that Adler was borrowing from his style, but LaBrie never sounded like Tate to me. I mean, it's melodic, higher register vocals, so there's that similarity, as opposed to, say James Hetfield. But just because JP and MP found someone with similar style of vocals to Jeoff Tate, doesn't mean that Jeoff Tate was directly influential to LaBrie. Heck, Queensryche came out in what? 1984? I bet LaBrie already established his style by then. It's not like Queensryche were around ages before DT.

[lithium112]

I might get some flack from QR fans for this, but I've always thought Jeff Tate sounds like the "generic prog metal vocalist". I don't particularly like the tone of his voice and think he sounds quite different from JLB. James is one of the few singers with this style who actually stands out IMHO.

[abydos]

You may get the feeling of Tate's voice to be generic prog voice but that's because he's been that influential that people are copying him still. But as said before, I've never seen any resemblance in their voices or singing. Yes, they both have a ridiculous range but that's about it. Listen to Winter Rose if you want to hear some "influences" from JLB. As for Awake- i doubt Tate was ever capable of pulling that off, and I'm not bashing him for it it's just that his strengths are elsewhere.

[SeRoX]

There some vocal lines where James sounds like Tate or vice versa but it's all about style. In that way, I can't see many similarities because even though I adore Tate's vocal talent (in the past obliviously) his style is mostly limited and I find his high register a bit annoying. On the other hand, from beginning with Winter Rose to I&W and Awake era James used his actual vocal style with rough voice, for instance: Awake. Then he balanced these two elements, look at FII and SFAM. Then he nearly changed his operatic style to gritty-rough voice with SC and BC&SL which I think Portnoy and maybe Petrucci made him do so. IMO, he sounded well again with ADTOE. It's balanced again and displaying his operatic side again.

[TheGreatPretender]

Personally, I think Charlie Dominici sounded WAY more like Jeoff Tate than JLB ever did.

[DebraKadabra]

Jeff Tate

Jeoff Tate

I know who Geoff Tate is, but I've never heard of these two dudes.

[The Dark Master]

Truth be told, I think the similarities have less to do with James and Geoff, and more to do with the similarities in the sounds of the two albums.  The early 90's was a time when many of the elder prog-metal bands made their most melodic, poppy records, and I think there was a good deal of cross pollination of ideas among those bands at the time.  Queensryche had Empire, Fates Warning had Parallels, Dream Theater had Images, and Savatage had Edge Of Thorns.  All of those albums were the most radio friendly output ever released by their respective bands and, unsurprisingly, all of those albums were also a commercial high point for their artists as well.  Queensryche had broken prog-metal into the mainstream, and there was definitely a movement within the prog-metal scene at the time to see how far such a band could push their success in radio and MTV.  I think the similarities between Empire/Parallels/I&W/EOT can all be chalked up to the leaders of the genre at the time moving in a similar, melodically oriented and commercially profitable direction, not to the singers (or even the musicians in those bands as well) sounding stylistically similar.  In other words, the commonalities are in the writing of those albums and songs, not in the performances of the band members.

[TheGreatPretender]

Jeff Tate

Jeoff Tate

I know who Geoff Tate is, but I've never heard of these two dudes.

[DebraKadabra]

Oh come on...

And FTR, JLB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tater

[ZirconBlue]

Geoff Tate (in his prime) and JLB are my two favorite singers, but I'm not really hearing any similarities between their voices.  Now Chris Collins on the Majesty Demos really sounded like Tate.

[Perpetual Change]

I might get some flack from QR fans for this, but I've always thought Jeff Tate sounds like the "generic prog metal vocalist". I don't particularly like the tone of his voice and think he sounds quite different from JLB. James is one of the few singers with this style who actually stands out IMHO.

This. James has always sounded like a great singer, especially in those early days.

Geoff has always sounded like a normal guy with a pinch of talent, operating under the impression that pure ego would be enough to get him to "operatic singer" status.

[bosk1]

Geoff Tate (in his prime) and JLB are my two favorite singers, but I'm not really hearing any similarities between their voices. 

This.  They are not similar at all.

[hefdaddy42]

Just in case no one has mentioned it yet, they don't really seem that similar.

[lithium112]

I know who Geoff Tate is, but I've never heard of these two dudes.

Haha good call. Oops. 

[El JoNNo]

Geoff has always sounded like a normal guy with a pinch of talent, operating under the impression that pure ego would be enough to get him to "operatic singer" status.

WTF? I am confused as to how anyone could think that. Sure now his singing is not that great but 'The Warning' is some of the best prog singing period.

[WildeSilas]

Well, I tried to word the post carefully because I didn't want anyone to think I was saying that JLB copies Tate - again, I've never heard him cited as an influence. It would be more accurate to say that I think Geoff Tate sounds a lot like JLB on certain sections - specifically the verses of "Best I Can" and "Della Brown." It's just hints here and there but I kind of do a double-take with my ears. Listening closely, they don't sound exactly alike, but much of their phrasing and vowel pronunciation is identical in places. As someone said, probably due more to the music following a similar pattern as prog-metal was exploring the mainstream. Either way, JLB>GT any day of the week.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, I tried to word the post carefully because I didn't want anyone to think I was saying that JLB copies Tate - again, I've never heard him cited as an influence. It would be more accurate to say that I think Geoff Tate sounds a lot like JLB on certain sections - specifically the verses of "Best I Can" and "Della Brown." It's just hints here and there but I kind of do a double-take with my ears. Listening closely, they don't sound exactly alike, but much of their phrasing and vowel pronunciation is identical in places. As someone said, probably due more to the music following a similar pattern as prog-metal was exploring the mainstream. Either way, JLB>GT any day of the week.

That clarifies it a little more. When you said you don't recall JLB citing Tate as one of his influences, it seemed like you were basically saying, "It's obvious that Tate influenced JLB's style, so why doesn't JLB give credit where credit is due?"

[bosk1]

I don't think anyone thought you sayd that James copied Tate.  We're just saying they do not sound similar at all.  Not in any way, shape, or form.

[KevShmev]

Jeff Tate

Jeoff Tate

I know who Geoff Tate is, but I've never heard of these two dudes.

My thoughts exactly, but not in the way you think.  The guy's name is in the damn thread title, so it shouldn't be that difficult to spell it correctly. /grammar and spelling nazi 

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think anyone thought you sayd that James copied Tate.  We're just saying they do not sound similar at all.  Not in any way, shape, or form.

It does depent on one's point of reference. If you listen to Megadeth, Type O Negative, Ozzy Osbourne, Rammstein, Dream Theater and Queensryche, then out of all of those, JLB and Geoff Tate probably share the most similarities.

[Ħ]

Both are great singers, if we are looking at each in their prime.

[TheGreatPretender]

Both are great singers, if we are looking at each in their prime.

They're not what they used to be, but I'd say they're both still great.

[El JoNNo]

Both are great singers, if we are looking at each in their prime.

They're not what they used to be, but I'd say they're both still great.

I would say JLB is still great. Geoff has let his voice go so badly that I practically feel betrayed. Oh well he is out of Queensryche now anyway.

[King Postwhore]

I find Geoff is more operatic. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I can see where the OP is coming from. The phrasing is a little similar, but other than they are two different voices.

Edit: Sometimes I imagine songs being sung by different singers, just to wonder how it'd sound with their tone and timbre.

The reason could be because DT were writing music for that GT vocal style, while adding other stuff as well.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would say JLB is still great. Geoff has let his voice go so badly that I practically feel betrayed. Oh well he is out of Queensryche now anyway.

What are you basing this on? Because he sounded fine on American Soldier, to me.

[King Postwhore]

I would say JLB is still great. Geoff has let his voice go so badly that I practically feel betrayed. Oh well he is out of Queensryche now anyway.

What are you basing this on? Because he sounded fine on American Soldier, to me.

Live.  Anybody can get touched up in the studio.  But let's be honest.  Years of singing kills the vocal chords and Geoff realy pounded it out over the years.  Nobody sounds like they did in their 20's.

[TheGreatPretender]

Live.  Anybody can get touched up in the studio.  But let's be honest.  Years of singing kills the vocal chords and Geoff realy pounded it out over the years.  Nobody sounds like they did in their 20's.

Ah, okay. I've never seen Queensryche live, so I wouldn't know.

Also, umm.... Honestly? I would say Bruce Dickinson sounds like he did in his 20's. He's honestly the only singer I know whose voice virtually didn't change, and who retained his range while also retaining the same quality he's always had.

[bosk1]

I would say JLB is still great. Geoff has let his voice go so badly that I practically feel betrayed. Oh well he is out of Queensryche now anyway.

What are you basing this on? Because he sounded fine on American Soldier, to me.

Well, taste is entirely subjective.  But if you think Geoff sounded fine on American Soldier, you are objectively wrong.  He is routinely off key, badly slides into notes, and audibly sounds like he is straining and singing with no diaphram support from the neck up on several songs.  His live performances for years have shown the same thing to be true, but to a much greater degree since there is no touching up.  Other than, of course, the times during the set where he simply lip synches. 

I am a long-time QR fan.  They were my #1 band until DT took that spot in 1999.  And even after that, they were still very high on my list.  I have met the band, and Geoff was one of my idols for years and one of my main inspirations as a singer.  But there is no credible argument to be made that he is still a good singer.  None.  His voice has deteriorated severely, due in large part to the fact that he refuses to have training, refuses to do proper warmups, and refuses to quit smoking and drinking--all of which he admits.

[Perpetual Change]

Geoff has always sounded like a normal guy with a pinch of talent, operating under the impression that pure ego would be enough to get him to "operatic singer" status.

WTF? I am confused as to how anyone could think that. Sure now his singing is not that great but 'The Warning' is some of the best prog singing period.

Sorry, but Tate always has sounded like a operatic caricature to me. And, actually, I do like some early Queensryche stuff-- about everything up until (and including) Promised Land.  But Tate has always sounded a bit like a Muppet to my ears.

[Mladen]

I would say Bruce Dickinson sounds like he did in his 20's. He's honestly the only singer I know whose voice virtually didn't change, and who retained his range while also retaining the same quality he's always had.

He sounds even better.

[King Postwhore]

Live.  Anybody can get touched up in the studio.  But let's be honest.  Years of singing kills the vocal chords and Geoff realy pounded it out over the years.  Nobody sounds like they did in their 20's.

Ah, okay. I've never seen Queensryche live, so I wouldn't know.

Also, umm.... Honestly? I would say Bruce Dickinson sounds like he did in his 20's. He's honestly the only singer I know whose voice virtually didn't change, and who retained his range while also retaining the same quality he's always had.

Bruce is the aberration.

[SeRoX]

What? Bruce sounds like he did in his prime? If it's not fan boy statement then what is it? Don't say it's reality. I don't mean he is not good anymore. Even though I don't like his voice and style I think he is really consistent trough the years but his live quality is never same as it used to be.