Do DT need a chorus for every song?

[TheGreatPretender]

It really depends on how you define "Chorus". Metropolis doesn't have a single repeating lyrical passage, so I guess it doesn't really have a chorus, although certain parts of the first half I could call Chorus A and Chorus B.
But if the question is, does DT need to have a repeating hook in every song, then no. In fact, I think they could use a few more songs with lyrical structure close to Metropolis.

[Ruba]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

This song has an awesome chorus. 

It's shite, just like the whole song is.

[Nekov]

I love choruses. They work very well live as everyone knows them and can sing along.

[Zook]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

This song has an awesome chorus. 

It's shite, just like the whole song is.

Did Build Me Up, Break Me Down shit in your Corn Flakes or something?

[Ruba]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

This song has an awesome chorus. 

It's shite, just like the whole song is.

Did Build Me Up, Break Me Down shit in your Corn Flakes or something?

We don't get along at all. But I have changed it's key with TuxGuitar to Ebm and it sounded much better.

Intro is nice, but then things start to get horribly wrong.

[MoraWintersoul]

I honestly feel like BMUBMD is You Not Me v.2.

[Sketchy]

I'm not crazy about BMUBMD, but it's alright. They do have better songs, but I think it's a pretty unfortunate choice of example. There are some songs with absolutely glorious choruses, such as TSCO, Lines In The Sand, Peruvian Skies, but when you've been around for thirty years almost, some misses to go with the hits will happen, and to be fair, there probably are DT fans who think it's a great song.

On the subject of YNM, the chorus just doesn't feel as if it fits there, but then again, I did hear the original first, so whatever.

[hefdaddy42]

I am not understanding the point of this thread.

I can think of more than a few instrumental passages that could have been left out, but choruses?

[Rattlehead]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

This song has an awesome chorus. 

It's shite, just like the whole song is.

I agree... those are easily two of DTs worst songs in my opinion.

[MirzekDT]

I don't get what's wrong with BMUBMD, yes the chorus isn't very strong but only because it's repeated too much without any variety at all... Fisrt time I hear it it's awesome. Then second time it's twice as long and it's basically the same thing so it's not so much awesome anymore and the third time it's even longer and I'm really happy when it's finally over so yes that is a problem but the song as whole is pretty good IMO.

[darkshade]

I am not understanding the point of this thread.

I can think of more than a few instrumental passages that could have been left out, but choruses?

Some people have gotten the idea that the band repeat the choruses too much, like towards the end of a song. The other part is that sometimes it seems like the band is thinking "we have to return to the chorus at the end of the song" when they are writing. Take Fatal Tragedy for example. the songs chorus is very proggy and it played differently each time, but after the instrumental section, they don't return to the chorus, which is a good thing if it's not needed. The Ministry of Lost Souls did NOT have to return to its chorus, regardless of how you feel about the song personally. If it didn't return to the chorus, many people may not have found it to have an unnecessary instrumental section thrown in between a decent slow tempo DT song.

[darkshade]

I don't get what's wrong with BMUBMD, yes the chorus isn't very strong but only because it's repeated too much without any variety at all... Fisrt time I hear it it's awesome. Then second time it's twice as long and it's basically the same thing so it's not so much awesome anymore and the third time it's even longer and I'm really happy when it's finally over so yes that is a problem but the song as whole is pretty good IMO.

Mangini adds a little variety when it's repeated a second time at the end of the song, but yes, I agree that it's repeated too much.

[TheGreatPretender]

I love choruses. They work very well live as everyone knows them and can sing along.

This is DT we're talking about. People should know and sing along to every lyric, not just the choruses.

[MoraWintersoul]

I love choruses. They work very well live as everyone knows them and can sing along.

This is DT we're talking about. People should know and sing along to every lyric, not just the choruses.

Some people don't care about singing along, regardless of whether or not it's DT we're talking about

[Jaffa]

I am going to politely refrain from making some impolite comments which spring to mind. 

No, they do not need choruses, but there's nothing wrong with them having choruses. 

[Rattlehead]

I don't get what's wrong with BMUBMD, yes the chorus isn't very strong but only because it's repeated too much without any variety at all... Fisrt time I hear it it's awesome. Then second time it's twice as long and it's basically the same thing so it's not so much awesome anymore and the third time it's even longer and I'm really happy when it's finally over so yes that is a problem but the song as whole is pretty good IMO.

I think the chorus is the only thing that isn't "wrong" with the song. Everything else just seems sloppy and uninspired to me. Nothing wrong at all with liking the song though, just my opinion... 

[theseoafs]

The Ministry of Lost Souls did NOT have to return to its chorus, regardless of how you feel about the song personally. If it didn't return to the chorus, many people may not have found it to have an unnecessary instrumental section thrown in between a decent slow tempo DT song.

I don't see how an unnecessary instrumental section tacked on to the end of a ballad would have been any better.

[ReaPsTA]

1.  I find the notion in the OP just bizarre.

2. 

Choruses are DT's strong suit, they would be stupid to leave them out.

Yup.

3.  I think DT using choruses in their music is one of the reasons they're successful.  A lot of prog rock/prog metal type bands like to get very atypical with their song structures, which makes them hard to connect to.  DT avoids this problem by not completely abandoning traditional musical expectations. 

[hefdaddy42]

I am not understanding the point of this thread.

I can think of more than a few instrumental passages that could have been left out, but choruses?

Some people have gotten the idea that the band repeat the choruses too much, like towards the end of a song. The other part is that sometimes it seems like the band is thinking "we have to return to the chorus at the end of the song" when they are writing. Take Fatal Tragedy for example. the songs chorus is very proggy and it played differently each time, but after the instrumental section, they don't return to the chorus, which is a good thing if it's not needed. The Ministry of Lost Souls did NOT have to return to its chorus, regardless of how you feel about the song personally. If it didn't return to the chorus, many people may not have found it to have an unnecessary instrumental section thrown in between a decent slow tempo DT song.

I read it, but I still don't understand it.

[MoraWintersoul]

I hereby suggest we renamed the thread "Do DT need a song for every chorus?"

[TheGreatPretender]

3.  I think DT using choruses in their music is one of the reasons they're successful.  A lot of prog rock/prog metal type bands like to get very atypical with their song structures, which makes them hard to connect to.  DT avoids this problem by not completely abandoning traditional musical expectations.

I kind of disagree with this. I think DT's choruses are good and all, but I don't think they're particularly catchy. I mean, maybe comparing them to other Prog Rock/Metal bands, maybe they are, but looking at the grand scheme of Metal in general, there are plenty of bands with catchier choruses, of course those come with a generally simple song structure, but that's why I look at it from the other direction. I mean, when most people think of DT, they think complex song structures, excellent musicianship, etc. I've never heard anyone say, "Oh yeah, I like Dream Theater because they write such catchy choruses."

[lithium112]

I've never heard anyone say, "Oh yeah, I like Dream Theater because they write such catchy choruses."

To be fair, I think you're hearing a lot of that in this thread. 

I do agree with one of your previous posts though - I also wish DT would have some more varied song structures sometimes. From ADTOE, it seemed like a disproportionately large number of songs followed a more conventional pattern. One of the things I love about DT is their ability to use unconventional song structures to create a still cohesive composition (e.g. Metropolis, LTL, BAI, ITPOE, etc.). Sometimes I wish they'd do that a bit more.

[Ħ]

Catchy choruses is one of DT's strong points.

[Ruba]

I honestly feel like BMUBMD is You Not Me v.2.

I feel like it's a child of You Not Me and The Dark Eternal Night  .

[MoraWintersoul]

I honestly feel like BMUBMD is You Not Me v.2.

I feel like it's a child of You Not Me and The Dark Eternal Night  .

I suppose you don't like TDEN a lot either?

[Zydar]

I feel a mashup coming. You Not The Eternal Night.

[Tomislav95]

I honestly feel like BMUBMD is You Not Me v.2.

I feel like it's a child of You Not Me and The Dark Eternal Night  .

I suppose you don't like TDEN a lot either?

I find TDEN silly.

[hefdaddy42]

I feel a mashup coming. You Not The Eternal Night.

DO IT.

[BlobVanDam]

I feel a mashup coming. You Not The Eternal Night.

If I can find a program to split out the channels of the 5.1 mix of SC, I am half inclined to give that a stab myself.

[?]

"It's all about grotesque creatures, not a sickening monstrous sight"

[Ruba]

I honestly feel like BMUBMD is You Not Me v.2.

I feel like it's a child of You Not Me and The Dark Eternal Night  .

I suppose you don't like TDEN a lot either?

Actually I like them both. 

I feel a mashup coming. You Not The Eternal Night.

Yes please.