who was the biggest loss to DT

[TheGreatPretender]

I voted Chris Collins. 

Seriously though, overall, musically, I'd say Kevin Moore, but I also think that every one of their losses was replaced by an even bigger gain. Meaning of all the members they've lost, even though I think Kevin Moore was the most significant, I still think that their ultimate replacement for him, JR, was a tremendous addition that ultimately makes it a gain.

[theseoafs]

Even the band has said that the reason ADTOE came so easily is that they didn't lose one of the band's main composers when MP left.

Er, ADToE was near enough ready for recording when he left...

Huh? I think you need to get your facts straight. ADTOE was nowhere near ready for recording when MP left.

They were trying to get into the studio when portnoy was going out on his other bands (its was a half troll )

At that point they were writing in the studio, so ADTOE was (more or less) 0% complete.  You were completely trolling.

[TAC]

On a side note, I think DT's biggest loss was letting John Arch slip by (largely of his own volition).  John Arch would have made DT the greatest band of all time in my book.   

I cannot agree with this. You underrate James.

I love James when he isn't trying to sound like a badass (a product of the '00s' Portnoy influence, by most accounts), but John Arch is my favorite singer ever.  Seeing him perform in Hartford in May was the highlight of my musical life.  DT is tied with Fates for me personally.

OK, that's cool!

[jonnybaxy]

I voted Chris Collins. 

Seriously though, overall, musically, I'd say Kevin Moore, but I also think that every one of their losses was replaced by an even bigger gain. Meaning of all the members they've lost, even though I think Kevin Moore was the most significant, I still think that their ultimate replacement for him, JR, was a tremendous addition that ultimately makes it a gain.

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

[theseoafs]

I voted Chris Collins. 

Seriously though, overall, musically, I'd say Kevin Moore, but I also think that every one of their losses was replaced by an even bigger gain. Meaning of all the members they've lost, even though I think Kevin Moore was the most significant, I still think that their ultimate replacement for him, JR, was a tremendous addition that ultimately makes it a gain.

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

You don't think MM is thumbs down? I agree!

[jonnybaxy]

I voted Chris Collins. 

Seriously though, overall, musically, I'd say Kevin Moore, but I also think that every one of their losses was replaced by an even bigger gain. Meaning of all the members they've lost, even though I think Kevin Moore was the most significant, I still think that their ultimate replacement for him, JR, was a tremendous addition that ultimately makes it a gain.

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

You don't think MM is thumbs down? I agree!

Damn you!

[SeRoX]

Oh wow. MP die-hard fan boy alert here. 

[skydivingninja]

Kevin Moore is pretty much the only correct answer, though really it wasn't so much as a "big loss" as it was a "big change."  DT's sound changed pretty radically when he left.  MP's departure did allow them some more freedom to experiment, and ADTOE is nothing like any of the albums that have come after 6DoiT, but its not the same kind of departure going from Images and Awake to FII and SFAM. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

Musically, I'd rate MM and MP about the same, for different reasons. But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

I love James when he isn't trying to sound like a badass (a product of the '00s' Portnoy influence, by most accounts), but John Arch is my favorite singer ever.  Seeing him perform in Hartford in May was the highlight of my musical life.  DT is tied with Fates for me personally.

I'm really not a fan of John Arch. I think FW started sounding exponentially better once Ray Alder joined the band.

[jonnybaxy]

Oh wow. MP die-hard fan boy alert here. 

He is a GOD 

[KevShmev]

But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

Hey, look at this, we agree on something!

[TheGreatPretender]

But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

Hey, look at this, we agree on something!

Well, it is 2012, about time we got some signs of the apocalypse.

[theseoafs]

But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

Hey, look at this, we agree on something!

I want to agree but I'm not even sure I'd say that MP's drums were "a great asset".  I'd rather have somebody who is constantly improving (the Manginis and Pearts of the world, who never stop practicing) than someone who just sort of decided he was done with drums and that he was "good enough".  (Not that he actually said those words, but the attitude was clear, I think.)

[KevShmev]

But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

Hey, look at this, we agree on something!

I want to agree but I'm not even sure I'd say that MP's drums were "a great asset".  I'd rather have somebody who is constantly improving (the Manginis and Pearts of the world, who never stop practicing) than someone who just sort of decided he was done with drums and that he was "good enough".  (Not that he actually said those words, but the attitude was clear, I think.)

That is probably true.  And it's a shame since he has the skills and tools to be even better, but he shows no interest in getting better.  He even said on one of the recent DVDs (I think it was Neal Morse's Testimony Two documentary) that he doesn't like to spend too much time recording his drum parts, and that he'd rather just get in there, "go for it" and get them done. 

[jonnybaxy]

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

Musically, I'd rate MM and MP about the same, for different reasons. But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

Yeah but if (for whatever reason) MP came back I think he would be greatful and listen to the other members and not take it his own way

[TheGreatPretender]

I want to agree but I'm not even sure I'd say that MP's drums were "a great asset".  I'd rather have somebody who is constantly improving (the Manginis and Pearts of the world, who never stop practicing) than someone who just sort of decided he was done with drums and that he was "good enough".  (Not that he actually said those words, but the attitude was clear, I think.)

I think he was a great drummer in DT. What that particular attitude would mean for him for future years, that's another issue entirely.

Yeah but if (for whatever reason) MP came back I think he would be greatful and listen to the other members and not take it his own way

At first.

[Cable]

Moore. The atmosphere style playing, and equally as much the lyrics. His lyric writing rubbed off on JP during his tenure.

Although if DT 12 is similar to DT 11, which is similar to older DT, it will be a tougher call.

[WheyWaffles]

I think JR was a bigger gain but i dont think MM is 

Musically, I'd rate MM and MP about the same, for different reasons. But I think in terms of attitude and direction, MP wasn't suited for the band anymore. He was trying to transform it into something DT wasn't. While I think MP's drums were a great asset to DT, I think his vocals and musical direction were beginning to be a major detriment.

I love James when he isn't trying to sound like a badass (a product of the '00s' Portnoy influence, by most accounts), but John Arch is my favorite singer ever.  Seeing him perform in Hartford in May was the highlight of my musical life.  DT is tied with Fates for me personally.

I'm really not a fan of John Arch. I think FW started sounding exponentially better once Ray Alder joined the band.

John Arch is a love/hate kind of singer, understandably.  FWX excluded, though, I'm a huge fan of both eras.  The current reality of the situation, however, is that Ray Alder's voice is shot to shit (chain-smoking) and John's still got it.

But that's just fine, because we have FW and Arch/Matheos.

[Flacracker]

None of them because in the end DT didn't lose anything. I would say that MP was the most dramatic loss though.

[DebraKadabra]

None of them because in the end DT didn't lose anything.

This.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Voted Kevin because I think it leaves a bigger mystery of "what could have been," whereas with MP I kinda feel like we received a satisfying sample of his contributions.

[TheGreatPretender]

John Arch is a love/hate kind of singer, understandably.  FWX excluded, though, I'm a huge fan of both eras.  The current reality of the situation, however, is that Ray Alder's voice is shot to shit (chain-smoking) and John's still got it.

But that's just fine, because we have FW and Arch/Matheos.

Yeah, that's pretty sad. Honestly, I don't think any self-respecting singer should smoke.

And actually, upon hearing Arch's recent stuff, I do like what I'm hearing. I just really didn't like what he did with Fate's Warning back in the 80's. Maybe they put too much reverb or something, so it could very well be in the way it was recorded, or maybe it was the actual vocal phrasing, a problem that was prominent on WDADU as well that turned me off.

[ResultsMayVary]

Kevin Moore

[Dark Castle]

I refuse to vote for any of them, because to be honest, I am perfectly fine with the way DT are right now. The strongest case could be made for Kevin Moore, but had Kevin Moore not left, JR never would have joined in. Imagine SFAM and SDOIT with Kevin Moore. Moreover, imagine DT with Kevin Moore, who is not interested in the musical direction the rest of the band is headed.

This 100%

[Shattered Glass]

I think that what Derek offered to DT was never really fully explored, and its a pity. 

[SystematicThought]

Kevin Moore.

I would really love to know what  DT records of the 2000s would sound like with Kevin Moore. He wrote a lot of great keyboard parts and lyrically wrote their greatest hit

[Perpetual Change]

I'm not sure. One more ADTOE quality album, or higher, will make this my favorite DT lineup.

[54_diplomats]

For me it was between Kevin Moore and Mike Portnoy, but I chose Kevin Moore. Although I liked SC and Black Clouds, I could detect that Portnoy's drumming ability was diminishing and his vocal contributions were questionable. If his drumming was still as great as it was from WDADU - Octavarium then I would have considered it their biggest loss.  Portnoy was part of the reason why I got into the band, I'm sad to say it was because of Rock Band 2 that I got into them but I thought Panic Attack was such an impressive drumming display that I had to listen to more of these guys, so I was distraught when he left. Luckily though, Mangini is a phenomenal drummer and an awesome guy in general so... yeah lol.

Now as to why I picked Kevin well I just love his lyrics and his keyboard work with DT. Even though I started out with JR, I liked Kevin's work with the band a lot more honestly and you could really tell what an impact his leaving made on the bands sound in later albums. I will say that Rudess is the best fit for the band and that his work on ADToE was spectacular, reminds me a bit of KM.

Another way I look at it is that even though I loved Portnoy, he is a drummer and a replacement drummer is easier to get used to than a replacement keyboardist.

[Ħ]

Portnoy.

People attribute the glory of the early albums to Kev, but I don't think he really deserves the credit for it, not even 20% of the credit.

[MetropolisWatches]

Who the hell voted for Chris Collins?

[KevShmev]

Portnoy.

People attribute the glory of the early albums to Kev, but I don't think he really deserves the credit for it, not even 20% of the credit.

You are really giving him that little credit for basically creating the blueprint for how to play keyboards in a subgenre the band all but created (or at least took to the next level)?

[TheGreatPretender]

Who the hell voted for Chris Collins?

I did, but just for fun. Who the other person was beats the hell out of me.

[jonnybaxy]

Who the hell voted for Chris Collins?

I did, but just for fun. Who the other person was beats the hell out of me.

Probably Chris Collins

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

I went with biggest loss at the time, because all of those losses have very much been compensated for now.

I voted Kevin Merrrr

[Ħ]

Portnoy.

People attribute the glory of the early albums to Kev, but I don't think he really deserves the credit for it, not even 20% of the credit.

You are really giving him that little credit for basically creating the blueprint for how to play keyboards in a subgenre the band all but created (or at least took to the next level)?

Of course I'm kidding. Kevin Moore is the greatest human being that ever lived.