POLL: DT using vocal backing tracks - your opinion?

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't care either.  They use it VERY sparingly.  If they used a backing track through a whole verse in multiple songs I would have a problem...but as it stands they use it in a few choruses in only a few songs. 

[E.S.]

I find it amusing that this is still a discussion in 2012. So what? Isn't it the result that matters, not how the result is achieved? Does the fact make it sound worse? If you didn't know, you wouldn't mind, right?

Rush has done this for ages, and nobody cares. I'd like to quote sir Lifeson; "It's not cheating if you played it in the first place."

If anything, I'd say it's pretty damn good to be able to trigger stuff like that in time. Try it and see how easy it is.

[Gadough]

I'm searching very hard for a fuck to give

can't find one

[BlobVanDam]

I find it amusing that this is still a discussion in 2012. So what? Isn't it the result that matters, not how the result is achieved? Does the fact make it sound worse? If you didn't know, you wouldn't mind, right?

Rush has done this for ages, and nobody cares. I'd like to quote sir Lifeson; "It's not cheating if you played it in the first place."

By the same logic, why not just mime the entire thing? Then it will sound perfect! It's the results that matter.

[FsF]

While one of my all-time favourute gig experiences was seeing Alex Lifeson hurriedly try and run to up the mic to mime "SUBDIVISIONS", I would still rather they tried to do them all live.  I mean, who can forget Petrucci's backing on ITNOG? Legendary stuff.

[bosk1]

I voted "Like."  They are backing the harmonies, not using the backup tapes to substitute for James' vocals or to prop him up.  And the result is that the vocals sound more full, which makes the songs sound even better in a live setting.  And a big part of that to me is the fact that I don't notice that they are there unless I listen for them.  They blend, but they aren't completely up front and distracting, so they add to the song and performance rather than taking away from it.  If it was a lead vocal being piped in, or if, like Queensryche, they were being used to prop up a lead singer who couldn't get the job done anymore, it would bother me.  But in this case, it actually makes the song better.

Personally, I don't even understand the mindset of someone who would actively dislike DT for using a backing vocal track.

[ResultsMayVary]

Personally, I don't even understand the mindset of someone who would actively dislike DT for using a backing vocal track.

This, especially since DT uses backing tracks in only a few lines in a few songs. Probably not even more than a few minutes of backing tracks in the entire set.

[KevShmev]

While one of my all-time favourute gig experiences was seeing Alex Lifeson hurriedly try and run to up the mic to mime "SUBDIVISIONS", I would still rather they tried to do them all live.

For the record, Alex always sings into to the mic; he is not miming.  But in every case, he is not only singing over a triggered extra vocal (like Subdivisions), but his vocal mic is mixed very low to where you really cannot hear him underneath the triggered vocal, which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex actually sing.

[Siberian Khatru]

While one of my all-time favourute gig experiences was seeing Alex Lifeson hurriedly try and run to up the mic to mime "SUBDIVISIONS", I would still rather they tried to do them all live.

For the record, Alex always sings into to the mic; he is not miming.  But in every case, he is not only singing over a triggered extra vocal (like Subdivisions), but his vocal mic is mixed very low to where you really cannot hear him underneath the triggered vocal, which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex actually sing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_mbYzM8axo

[KevShmev]

While one of my all-time favourute gig experiences was seeing Alex Lifeson hurriedly try and run to up the mic to mime "SUBDIVISIONS", I would still rather they tried to do them all live.

For the record, Alex always sings into to the mic; he is not miming.  But in every case, he is not only singing over a triggered extra vocal (like Subdivisions), but his vocal mic is mixed very low to where you really cannot hear him underneath the triggered vocal, which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex actually sing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_mbYzM8axo

Haha, exactly.  And that clip shows that Rush is not a band that hits a button and then plays to an entire backing track for the whole song.  That intro they keep playing for three minutes, with them triggering the polka bits over and over and over, until they finally got Alex's guitar working correctly.  Some bands have a backing track to where the entire song has one and then the band has to play over the top of that backing track and if they have any problems, it is all messed up.  A band like Rush triggers and plays every little thing in real time.

[Zydar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_mbYzM8axo

Haha awesome

"Guess what? Still no guitar".

[OsMosis2259]

I'd say just don't play the ones where you relied on MPs backing vocals. Obviously keep Lost Not Forgotten but they should just not play some of the older tracks where MP does lead vocals. It really isn't that big of a deal but a lot of people do come to the DT shows to see the live performance and will get disappointed by this.

A solution would be to have another person in the band singing them but I can imagine it being tough playing and singing at the same time for JP, and JR. JMX doesn't really speak that much in general so that's out of the question.   

[ResultsMayVary]

A solution would be to have another person in the band singing them but I can imagine it being tough playing and singing at the same time for JP, and JR. JMX doesn't really speak that much in general so that's out of the question.

JP already picked up an incredible amount of backing vocal duties compared to his responsibilities before MP left. In that regard, he has completely outdone himself and deserves praise, for sure. For JR, he already is quite busy with keyboards and I can see how it would be extremely easier to use the backing tracks sparingly like they are rather than introducing a completely new element to JR's live playing. I wonder if they actually considered JR doing vocals. But regardless, it seems like JR would have too much on his 'plate' when they are performing if he had to add additional backing vocals on top of his already extremely busy performance duties with his keyboards.

[Adami]

If anything, I'd say it's pretty damn good to be able to trigger stuff like that in time. Try it and see how easy it is.

Chances are they're not triggered. Chances are they are part of a backing track that is being played to a click track, which would also explain why they are playing in the identical tempos every single night (which is also identical to the CD).

[IdoSC]

That's the only thing James uses it for: the BACKING vocals. The voice you hear in the background in the studio version, the parts that Portnoy used to sing. It's not like he fakes any of the important bits, just the ones that sound worse now that Portnoy is out.

[theseoafs]

I don't care.

[TheGreatPretender]

Personally, I preferred it when he had no harmonies going, or when he was doing the harmonies instead of the melodies. I mean, I remember Portnoy doing SOME backing vocals on LSFNY, but there were also quite a few songs that were obviously too high for him, so JLB just did them by himself, like the chorus to Strange Deja Vu, or parts of Finally Free, and I thought, "This is cool, to just hear those parts in one voice," especially when he did the higher harmonies. So yeah, I kinda prefer that.

[rumborak]

I voted "Don't like" because I think there are three capable musicians on stage who could do it.

rumborak

[chrisbDTM]

I voted "Don't like" because I think there are three capable musicians on stage who could do it.

rumborak

that's easier said than done though. the lost not forgotten chorus is pretty crazy on its own for the rest of the band on their respective instruments

[TheGreatPretender]

that's easier said than done though. the lost not forgotten chorus is pretty crazy on its own for the rest of the band on their respective instruments

And if JLB did the Lost Not Forgotten chorus without any backing vocals at all, it would still sound great. I really don't see why they need them. I mean, IF JP could do it, then sure, or when MP was in the band, when he did it, fine. But if none of the band members could do the backing vocals for JLB, then I don't see what the big deal is about just letting him do the main vocals by himself.

Frankly, I never liked the backing vocals in LNF anyway. Even on the album.

[chrisbDTM]

we know where you stand on the backing tracks

[theseoafs]

 

[FsF]

While one of my all-time favourute gig experiences was seeing Alex Lifeson hurriedly try and run to up the mic to mime "SUBDIVISIONS", I would still rather they tried to do them all live.

For the record, Alex always sings into to the mic; he is not miming.  But in every case, he is not only singing over a triggered extra vocal (like Subdivisions), but his vocal mic is mixed very low to where you really cannot hear him underneath the triggered vocal, which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex actually sing.

Aha! I knew they triggered them live, but totally blanked on the deal that Alex would trigger those vocals. I do seem to rememeber a version of 'Between Sun and Moon' with Alex's vocals turned up, and they were indeed not pretty.

[Jaq]

Words cannot express how little I care. I know they're playing everything else, and besides which, this deep into music history, when odds are every live album you own has extensive overdubs, DT using a backing track to do a few backing vocals falls firmly into the "I have no fucks to give about this" category.

[ResultsMayVary]

Words cannot express how little I care. I know they're playing everything else, and besides which, this deep into music history, when odds are every live album you own has extensive overdubs, DT using a backing track to do a few backing vocals falls firmly into the "I have no fucks to give about this" category.

This. People are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.

[TL]

It doesn't really matter to me. I'd probably rather they didn't, but I don't mind either.

What does seem silly to me is having such an adverse reaction to it, to the point of not going to see a great live band just because they use an occasional backing vocal track. It just seems like you're depriving yourself of a fun experience for a very lackluster reason.

[robwebster]

It doesn't really matter to me. I'd probably rather they didn't, but I don't mind either.

What does seem silly to me is having such an adverse reaction to it, to the point of not going to see a great live band just because they use an occasional backing vocal track. It just seems like you're depriving yourself of a fun experience for a very lackluster reason.

I didn't think anyone really was?

The OP's a little thornier on the subject than most, but voting "I don't like it" isn't the same as hating it with the fire of a million suns. It just means I've gone "oh, that's a bit rubbish," justified it when asked in an open poll, then moved on with my life. Seeing DT's still a cracking way to spend a night.

The lacklustre reason I'm depriving myself of a fun experience is because I've got no money, not because they sometimes have a tape on.

[TheGreatPretender]

What does seem silly to me is having such an adverse reaction to it, to the point of not going to see a great live band just because they use an occasional backing vocal track. It just seems like you're depriving yourself of a fun experience for a very lackluster reason.

I agree. I don't like using backing tracks, but there's no way in hell I'm going to miss out on a Dream Theater show just because of that.

[bosk1]

It doesn't really matter to me. I'd probably rather they didn't, but I don't mind either.

What does seem silly to me is having such an adverse reaction to it, to the point of not going to see a great live band just because they use an occasional backing vocal track. It just seems like you're depriving yourself of a fun experience for a very lackluster reason.

I didn't think anyone really was?

Well, the OP said he was disappointed, was never going to another show with backing vocals, said it was cruel, and said he knew 5 other people who felt the same way.  I'd say that's an adverse reaction.  And, unforutnately, it kinds of sets the tone for the thread, even if others who vote "don't like" are much softer in expressing their opinions.

[rumborak]

With some bands, I have no problems with backing tracks. Nightwish, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Dimmu Borgir, Devin Townsend, Within Temptation etc etc. However DT....well they really don't need them. I personally play with backing tracks in my band, and every song is to a click, so clearly I have no problem with it in principle. But I see no reason for DT to do it other than to sound as close to the CD as possible.

And THAT annoys me. When a band tries to sound identical to their CDs live. If I want to hear the CD, I'll put on the damn CD. When I see a band live, I want a different thing.

I don't mind them trying to get as close as possible to the album version. The necessity for the click track is a bummer though. It takes an important element of live music out.

rumborak

[Adami]

With some bands, I have no problems with backing tracks. Nightwish, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Dimmu Borgir, Devin Townsend, Within Temptation etc etc. However DT....well they really don't need them. I personally play with backing tracks in my band, and every song is to a click, so clearly I have no problem with it in principle. But I see no reason for DT to do it other than to sound as close to the CD as possible.

And THAT annoys me. When a band tries to sound identical to their CDs live. If I want to hear the CD, I'll put on the damn CD. When I see a band live, I want a different thing.

I don't mind them trying to get as close as possible to the album version. The necessity for the click track is a bummer though. It takes an important element of live music out.

rumborak

Depends on the music. My bands play to a click track live, doesn't change anything for us. No fans really notice or care if a song is 5-10 seconds longer or short live than in the studio. The only times they will care is when it's very different, and that's usually complained about. Obviously some bands that are more rock, or jammy or groove based, then sure. But not all bands are like that, and most bands who use click tracks aren't like that.

[Ben_Jamin]

One word...Overture.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Imo, if DT wants to do it, let them. After all, it's their band. It's not like James is lip syncing or anything. To me, it's not much different then when JP uses his harmonizer pedal during the opening solo to TCOT and other such songs.

[Adami]

Imo, if DT wants to do it, let them.

NO! We will not let them! We control what they do and we will force them to stop!


Seriously, I don't get why people are saying "Let the band do what they want". Obviously the band will do what they want, no one here is trying to start a petition or a letter writing committee, we're just voicing our opinions.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Seriously, I don't get why people are saying "Let the band do what they want". Obviously the band will do what they want, no one here is trying to start a petition or a letter writing committee, we're just voicing our opinions.

You know what I meant.