MM's use of cymbals

nikatapi · December 30, 2011, 04:17:38 AM

As i watch more and more live videos of DT's recent performances and get more familiar with MM's style of playing, i noticed that his use of cymbals is really different than MP, especially the crash cymbals.

First of all, it seems to me that he doesn't use the crash cymbals as often as MP. To me, the crashes were always used in DT songs to divide little sections of music, and to emphasize rythmic changes.
It seems like MM uses these cymbals in a more simplistic way, defining larger sections of the songs while using the hihats most of the time to give the groove.
Also, in many songs he uses the hihats instead of the ride cymbals which sometimes sounds cool, and sometimes quite different from the original drum parts.

Finally, his hihat use and sound is quite different than MP, and i think that especially the closed hihat sound is not so tight, but maybe this has to do with the type of hihats he uses.

So i wanted to see if any of you have noticed this difference and how it affects your listening experience.

JimmyJava · December 30, 2011, 04:45:27 AM

I have noticed that he doesn't hit the crashes as much as MP did and that to me, is a good thing. Especially during the latter years, MP would litterally hit a crash after every 4-bar beat, it would become ridiculous and the dynamics would be competely lost in some sections. In that department, I love MM's more simplistic way of playing the drums, just staying in the groove and milking it. For example, I love how he's not going for the ride about 8:06 in Breaking All Illusions when JP's solo builds up, he still plays the hihat but with more power and attitude. He's awesome

BlobVanDam · December 30, 2011, 04:52:13 AM

Definitely a difference. There is some great cymbal work on ADTOE, when you can actually hear it, such as the intro of OTBOA when he's playing along with the keyboard rhythm, or the super fast ride later on.
I do very much miss MP's crash cymbal style though. Feels a little lacking without it.

Perpetual Change · December 30, 2011, 06:35:00 AM

MP's cymbal playing drove me nuts. I never noticed until someone here mentioned it, but he really did play those things has if they were just metronomes. Hearing the rides or high-hats in constant 4/4 in like every section of every song starts to annoy you after awhile, and it can't be unheard.

bosk1 · December 30, 2011, 07:42:36 AM

I mostly really enjoyed Portnoy's aggressive over-use of crashes.

But, yeah, Mangini has a very different style in the cymbal department. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that he very creatively uses a variety of cymbals in fills in very unexpected ways where you would normally expect the use of toms.

YtseJamittaja · December 30, 2011, 09:23:28 AM

Quote from: bosk1 on December 30, 2011, 07:42:36 AM
I mostly really enjoyed Portnoy's aggressive over-use of crashes.

But, yeah, Mangini has a very different style in the cymbal department. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that he very creatively uses a variety of cymbals in fills in very unexpected ways where you would normally expect the use of toms.

I can agree with this and everything else in this thread too.

BlackInk · December 30, 2011, 10:05:05 AM

The way Mangini uses the hi-hat at some points is pretty off-putting to me. It seems so raw and less dynamic than Portnoy's.

Like in Breaking All Illusions at around 9:23 a hi-hat driven part starts that kinda bothers me...

On the other hand that part ^ and the final chorus of BAI is the only two times it's really like 'in your face'. The rest is fine just not as dynamic as it could have been.

TheSilentHam · January 02, 2012, 08:40:34 PM

I agree that there is much to enjoy about Mangini's creative use of cymbals, and his dynamics. It took some time to get acclimated to a different hi-hat sound in DT music, but I have.... and I think it's all good.

I really liked MP's Hi-hat sound and his frequent use of crash cymbals. I know MP didn't go cymbal crazy every moment of every song, but I do love some of his creative moments. For example, I really like the cymbal work in "These Walls".

SystematicThought · January 02, 2012, 10:09:52 PM

I agree. But one thing I will miss is MP's hi hat work. Sometimes, he really did some cool work with it.

wolven74 · January 03, 2012, 08:26:32 AM

I do notice a difference, mostly in the sound of the symbols. MMs symbols are much brighter through the whole album. I think MM does a lot of great creative work with the hi hats, but it's not the same creative work MP did. That's not a bad thing. You had to expect the music to sound dynamically different when MP left. One section I found really cool upon first listen, and I see it as one of the coolest sections of any DT song, is the slower piano section after the instrumental break in Outcry. That is some of the best symbol work I've ever heard.

nikatapi · January 03, 2012, 09:06:28 AM

Quote from: wolven74 on January 03, 2012, 08:26:32 AM
I do notice a difference, mostly in the sound of the symbols. MMs symbols are much brighter through the whole album. I think MM does a lot of great creative work with the hi hats, but it's not the same creative work MP did. That's not a bad thing. You had to expect the music to sound dynamically different when MP left. One section I found really cool upon first listen, and I see it as one of the coolest sections of any DT song, is the slower piano section after the instrumental break in Outcry. That is some of the best symbol work I've ever heard.

I completely agree with you in this, its one of my favorite MM moments on the album.

BlackInk · January 03, 2012, 01:21:45 PM

That section is indeed great, but is greatly aided by Myungs great bass-line.

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MM's use of cymbals