Deepest lyrics?

[Sacul]

I think Learning to Live has some amazing metaphores and references but Lifting Shadows... is really cryptic, as KM. I have a vague idea of what is it about but I can't follow the ideas during the songs. I think it must have some kind of deep meaning or KM is just trolling me.
Anyways, what do you think are DT's deepest lyrics ever?

[Rodni Demental]

Deep? To me there are different levels of what makes a song 'Deep', but if I were to judge it solely on lyrics then: Voices, Another Day, Along For The Ride, Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Far From Heaven, Vacant, Disappear, Illumination Theory, Profits of War, The Answer Lies Within, Surrender to Reason, The Bigger Picture. I believe all of these are very poetic, even if sometimes simple, but all of these at least have some section that makes you think or question certain ideas.

Scenes From A Memory/Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence gets an acknowledgement for being 'deep' by default just because of the scale of those pieces and the effort that was put into them. Parts of the 12 Step Suite are definitely deep in an introspective way. When Dream and Day Unite feels like it has some deeper meaning going on, but a lot of it seems to go over my head without analysis or lyrics in front of me.

Lines in the Sand, I love the imagery and metaphors in this. Stream of Consciousness section is a highlight. The idea that everything fades like Lines in the sand, it can only be temporary until the flow of the tide (and time) reforms it's shape. Although there are actually a lot of DT songs that reference and reflect these ideas of this constant flowing and forever changing 'stream of life'.

There are more that are quite 'deep' if you inquire a bit more, but these are just the ones that first come to mind. Interestingly, a lot of JP lyrics in there. 

[yeah_93]

Voices, In the Name of God, and Learning to Live come to mind. Might be missing some.

[Laughingplace56]

Illumination Theory comes to mind as I love the concept of the lyrics and think that they're written very creatively and maturely. Vacant, Disappear, Breaking All Illusions and Learning to Live all have very well thought out lyrics as well. But honestly, a big portion of their lyrics have a defined meaning and are well thought out.

However, I think they're deepest lyrics come from The Dark Eternal Night. I cri evrytim

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

SS, ITNOG, Disappear, Solitary Shell, LTL, and Vacant off the top of my head. I might say TBOT just because of how raw and personal they seem.

[rumborak]

Voices, In the Name of God, and Learning to Live come to mind. Might be missing some.

ITNOG takes on a heavy subject, but the lyrics are super-shallow.

[Super Dude]

Burning My Soul.

[Tom Bombadil]

Scarred

[SeRoX]

I'd say Disappear.

[Nearmyth]

Learning to Live is very deep. Wait For Sleep too; the lyrics in that song ALWAYS stood out to me. Most of the lyrics from the Moore-era are quite deep and cryptic, their lyrics for the past decade have kind just been like duh, even if the message is good. Awake comes to mind with deep stuff, the connotation and use of the lyrics used in that album is stellar, while at the same time delivering some actual deep lyrical content.

But if I had to take some exceptions from the more modern stuff, let's see...

Illumination Theory and Surrender To Reason stand out in DT12, even though STR is pretty similar to Bridges In The Sky. Breaking All Illusions is also an obvious choice, though it's lyrics are really "life-messagey," which seems to be a case with a lot of modern DT songs. Not that that's a huge problem  .

I mean I guess there's a lot of ways to define "deep." I always think of it as lyrics that aren't completely obvious from the get go, ones that you have to dig into to find a meaning.

[425]

I'd say that it's what I think of as a trilogy (albeit an out-of-order one: chronologically, Trial of Tears should probably be first with Breaking All Illusions last) of 10-15 minute long songs with John Myung lyrics that revolve around similar themes and are at least fairly closely related in musical style: Learning to Live, Trial of Tears and Breaking All Illusions. All three are just brilliantly written songs about overcoming adversity and setting the right course in life, none of which ever fall into triteness.

Of the three I think Learning to Live has the deepest lyrics because it seems to be much broader in scope, dealing with a number of different aspects of life. However, Trial of Tears is right up there because of how evocative the imagery and symbolism is. Breaking All Illusions is the least deep of the three lyrically, but it's the best musically (by a slim margin) and the lyrics still rank right up there with the rest of the trilogy in brilliance. The outlook of BAI is also the most mature out of the three; LtL and ToT read like they were written by a man in his 20s while BAI reads like it was written by a man in his 40s (which of course is actually the case with all three).

[?]

Pretty much anything by JMX
Surrounded
Lines in the Sand
To Live Forever
Scarred

[BlueRoseOrchestra]

if i had to choose one song it has to be Misunderstood. other than the analytic metaphors theres a deep meaning behind each section.

"How can I feel abandoned even when the world surrounds me
How can I bite the hand that feeds the strangers all around me
How can I know so many never really knowing anyone" - i can only imagine the forlornness and frustration the person feels being a different person nobody understands and while theres no choice but have to continue experiencing the half-hearted world.

"It challenges the essence of my soul
And leaves me in a state of disconnection...." - the person realized that this incongruous experience is a test in life and eventually fell back from the original person to someone who seeks help from god.

some other ones are Lines in the Sand, the Bigger picture and A change of seasons. and in Hollow Years i feel like it was written by someone who has lived a full life and is in their 60s or 70s while John Petrucci is only 30 at the time.

[Tim van Duijn]

Raw Dog. I don't know, that song has something special.

[Tim van Duijn]

Pretty much anything by JMX
Surrounded
Lines in the Sand
To Live Forever
Scarred

JMX didnt write any of those lyrics..

[son_ov_hades]

Burning My Soul.

I don't give a shit noooo! 

[Sycsa]

I don't think we can really define what deep is so I'll just go with the ones that sound cool to me. For me, the most important criteria when it comes to lyrics is that they sound good, fancy words with the right percussive value and such (UAGM, Voices). If I can find some personal meaning behind them, even better (ACOS - too bad there's no MERCY FUCK in the original). I never had a problem with them treading water in the sea of fantasy lyrics and bad poetry (Never Enough, TDEN, TCOT), but I don't like it when they get overly religious or political. ITNOG, Sacrificed Sons, Outcry and The Great Debate bother me. They have bitten off more than they could chew with these and it comes off as preachy, without a lot of substance.

Burning My Soul.

I'll raise you The Count of Tuscany.

[XB0BX]

The Count of Tuscany for me.

[?]

Pretty much anything by JMX
Surrounded
Lines in the Sand
To Live Forever
Scarred

JMX didnt write any of those lyrics..

I wasn't implying JMX wrote those, I just made a quick mention instead of listing LTL, TOT, BAI, etc. separately.

[Tim van Duijn]

Pretty much anything by JMX
Surrounded
Lines in the Sand
To Live Forever
Scarred

JMX didnt write any of those lyrics..

I wasn't implying JMX wrote those, I just made a quick mention instead of listing LTL, TOT, BAI, etc. separately.

Ah, now i get it. Excuse me.

[Chino]

I'm just a poor girl

[Super Dude]

I need no sympathy?

[DebraKadabra]

However, I think they're deepest lyrics come from The Dark Eternal Night. I cri evrytim

Well played, sir.

[Rodni Demental]

I never had a problem with them treading water in the sea of fantasy lyrics and bad poetry, but I don't like it when they get overly religious or political. ITNOG, Sacrificed Sons, Outcry and The Great Debate bother me. They have bitten off more than they could chew with these and it comes off as preachy, without a lot of substance.

I don't mean any offence or anything, but why do you think it's biting off more than they can chew? Should these subjects be explored only by the professionals or experts in their fields (whoever they may be), because the average joe's opinion is pretentious? And that's being very unfavourable to DTs status calling them average joes, I mean I'm sure they've all had a lot of experiential growth as individuals and have as much to say as anyone else would on certain 'touchy' subjects and so they should if they feel that it's important or relevant.

I mean, I don't like being preached one side of the coin as much as the next guy, because I prefer to recognise and appreciate how multiple perspectives relate to each other. Besides, a person couldn't have such a strong view if there wasn't an opposing point of view to measure the extent to which you can believe something. Sorry to use your comment to make this point because I realise I'm going beyond anything you actually implied, but I just think in general, that it's silly to impose boundaries on a writer. There shouldn't be certain aspects of something that are off limits if it's a valid and real issue in the world today. 

I enjoy all those pieces for what they are, which is a point of view of an idea, expressed through music. You don't even have to agree with it, just recognise or understand how or where the perspective came to be, then you won't care about how encompassing the substance of the subject is.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I don't like it when they get overly religious or political. ITNOG, Sacrificed Sons, Outcry and The Great Debate bother me. They have bitten off more than they could chew with these and it comes off as preachy, without a lot of substance.

If ITNOG or SS are going to be on the list, I would add TSCO or TITL. Those two are fairly religious as well, they just examine different aspects. 

As far as outcry goes, I don't see a problem with a song calling for revolution or freedom from governments as oppressive as the ones they're referencing. I haven't seen the music video though, I don't care for watching them (I like interpreting the song on my own, music videos kind of ruin the illusion). 

TGD doesn't strike me as bias, more just covering the topic. They don't seem to be taking sides, just talking about the controversy surrounding the issue.

I'd definitely disagree that they don't have substance, as well. At least they aren't afraid to take it on and don't worry about being politically correct. I'd rather a band write about things with meaning to them, and since they do, I find these songs to be some of their most emotionally involved. I'd much rather songs about religion or politics than generic Veggie Tales morals about sharing.

[Daso]

Outcry doesn't have a video other than the LaLP performance (which wasn't a single or something similar by any means).

In a way I agree with Sycsa. Indeed, every artist should be free to develop their work based on whichever topic they desire. The issue regarding these songs isn't their lyrical theme, which are quite relevant (at least to me); it is the lack of substance in relation to the themes chosen. The lyrics are dramatic, appeal to generalized points of view and never really go into insightful arguments. Most likely people who hold some relationship to the songs' themes would empathize with what is expressed and/or find the lyrics appropriate, but outside of ITNOG (which I leave exempt of the point I'm trying to make) the lyrics don't seem thought well enough to be able to strike anyone else. I'd even dare to call them cliched.

Of course, I'm only talking about lyrics right there.

[haceeb]

DT is deep so are their lyrics 

To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days

If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone

Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright
Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you're alive
   

[Rodni Demental]

In a way I agree with Sycsa. Indeed, every artist should be free to develop their work based on whichever topic they desire. The issue regarding these songs isn't their lyrical theme, which are quite relevant (at least to me); it is the lack of substance in relation to the themes chosen. The lyrics are dramatic, appeal to generalized points of view and never really go into insightful arguments. Most likely people who hold some relationship to the songs' themes would empathize with what is expressed and/or find the lyrics appropriate, but outside of ITNOG (which I leave exempt of the point I'm trying to make) the lyrics don't seem thought well enough to be able to strike anyone else. I'd even dare to call them cliched.

I would almost say that generalised points of view might be more appropriate for expression through music than insightful arguments. I mean as I said, I'm all for artistic freedom to express whatever you want, but as soon as you turn something like art into a contentious hypersensitive argument about a controversial subject, THAT's when they actually do start to sound pretentious or preachy. If the message is something the writer strongly agrees with then so be it, it'll come from a natural place and surely some people will resonate with it even if some people hate it. But this is where generalisations, or recognition of the different perspectives is important. Besides, most if not all clichés exist for a very good reason, normally because it derives from some level of truth somewhere, for someone.

[The Stray Seed]

I have to go with Voices.

[Octavarious]

If we are talking about deep lyrics, TITL comes to my mind first.
Others may be emotional, evocative, imaginary, but none of them is as deep as those lyrics...

[Sycsa]

I never had a problem with them treading water in the sea of fantasy lyrics and bad poetry, but I don't like it when they get overly religious or political. ITNOG, Sacrificed Sons, Outcry and The Great Debate bother me. They have bitten off more than they could chew with these and it comes off as preachy, without a lot of substance.

I don't mean any offence or anything, but why do you think it's biting off more than they can chew? Should these subjects be explored only by the professionals or experts in their fields (whoever they may be), because the average joe's opinion is pretentious?

Reading my comment, it's perfectly understandable how you got that impression, however it was never my intention to suggest that certain topics are inherently off limits to any kind of artistic expression, that would be silly. I simply don't like the way DT tackled them. Daso's comment perfectly reflects my thoughts. By the way, I don't have a clear-cut idea regarding how these touchy subjects should be treated in the context of prog metal lyrics, but I know that DT's approach in the aforementioned songs isn't my cup of tea. It's not a huge deal, it doesn't taint my overall enjoyment of said songs (although hearing stuff like "As our children die" do make me cringe from time to time).

In other songs, they can pull these subjects off a lot better. The Glass Prison is a good example. I'm hugely critical of 12 stepping (euphemism of the month) and I think it's by far the worst subject DT ever tackled and, to add insult to injury, they made a whole suite out of it. Yet the lyrics of TGP just work so damn well that the ending always manages to send shivers down my spine.

If ITNOG or SS are going to be on the list, I would add TSCO or TITL. Those two are fairly religious as well, they just examine different aspects.

TSCO obtains a different meaning within a context of the album (turns from Christian philosophy to Buddhist ), which works perfectly in my opinion.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

If ITNOG or SS are going to be on the list, I would add TSCO or TITL. Those two are fairly religious as well, they just examine different aspects.

TSCO obtains a different meaning within a context of the album (turns from Christian philosophy to Buddhist ), which works perfectly in my opinion.

Now that I understand what you mean, I see why you didn't include it. I was under the impression you didn't like religious/political subject matter in general. I don't have a problem with them either (especially in the context of SFAM), but going off of what I thought you meant I assumed you would.