What don't you like about When Dream and Day Unite?

[Jaffa]

Before anyone snipes at me, I don't mean to imply that everyone dislikes WDADU.  If you love it, there's an option for you. 

But, I think we all know that is pretty frequently bashed, and it seems to be a pretty unpopular album with the DTF community as a whole.  The most frequent criticisms I myself have seen are of the vocals and of the production, with not as much criticism of the actual music.  I'm just curious as to what these poll results will look like, what specifically is most disliked about WDADU.

I think I've included an option for pretty much every reasonable perspective, but I've included an 'other' just to be on the safe side. 

Could it be a masterpiece with modern production and JLB on vocals?  Is it doomed to fail because of weak music?  Discuss.

[Zydar]

The music itself is good, but the production and vocals are bad.

It would be interesting to hear it re-recorded in the studio with this lineup. I know we have the WDADRU recording, but that was live. I would want a studio rendition.

[?]

Option 1. Sure the production could be better but it doesn't take away my enjoyment of the music. I think WD&DU is easily better than FII, SC and BC&SL.

[BlobVanDam]

I voted for "everything. no redeeming value", although there are actually 4 songs I like, but I can't even listen to the album versions of those. The rest are just throwaway to me.
The production isn't great, but it's not a deal breaker. It's raw, but I listen to worse if the songs are good. The vocals are bad in places, but they're not overall as bad as people make them out to be. Although they are what stop me listening to the studio versions of even the songs I like.

Aside from all of the excuses people make for fans not embracing the album, for me it comes down to most of the songs just being very poorly written. There is no redeeming songwriting quality on a lot of the album. The album is what it is. An album recorded by a bunch of enthusiastic guys with a lot of energy, but little songwriting experience. I consider it a demo, just like the Majesty songs, because a lot of this album feels like it should never have been recorded for an album.

[Ħ]

The music is generally bad, with a glimmer of awesomeness in TKH's intro.

And the production is horrid.


Worst album by a long shot.

[Dillster22]

I love it. The songs are all great, Charlie's singing is fine. Sure it's not as good as JLB but still very listenable. The production is obviously not up to par with their later albums but I don't mind it, in fact I prefer it like that because the album itself has plenty of great music while the production reminds us that although this was DT's first album, the music is already so complex and amazing.

[Pols Voice]

I like WDADU and would rank it above three other DT albums, but the production is the main problem. The vocals are hit and miss, and some of the songwriting is a little blah. A Fortune in Lies, Ytse Jam, Afterlife, and Only a Matter of Time are really good. I never thought The Killing Hand was one of the better songs.

[Mladen]

The music is just OK. The vocals could have been better, though, as well as the production.

But I still give it a spin every now and then, some of the songs are great. 

[black_biff_stadler]

There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It was a low-budget debut for a band in a fringe, if not non-existent at the time, genre and none of it is hard to hear and sounds pretty clear altogether. The music is brilliant and the singing is no more offensive to my ears than JLB has been at any point ever and it really seems that audiophile elitism spiked heavily since 2000. Honestly, back in the 90s very few would've cared two shits about the production value of this album especially since it wasn't drenched in distortion like a typical metal album. I know it ain't a pure metal release but it has enough metal moments to warrant a comparison.

[Jirpo]

The vocals are great. I love it, one of my fave DT albums.

[nikatapi]

I really like that album, and even the production. It may be low budget, but it is still pretty listenable and no worse than SC

[Phoenix87x]

I actually Love When Dream and Day Unite and Its honestly, one of my favorite DT albums. The musicianship and technicality is incredible, and personally I've always really enjoyed Charlie's voice and its blend with the music. In short I love this album and listen to it very often.

[Nekov]

I love this album. The production is not good, that's true, but it's compensated by how awesome the music is and I think Charlie gets a lot of crap. He may not be a super technical singer like JLB is but his voice is far more original and goes really well with the overall sound of the record. In my ranking this album comes 5th, under the big 4.

[obscure]

It's full of great songs but...   the production and vocals are bad.

[hefdaddy42]

About half of the songs are good, but the production is bad and the vocals are worse.

[Elite]

I voted the second option. I rank this album higher than Train of Thought, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds & Silver Linings.

[Perpetual Change]

The music is good. The vocals and production are adequate, considering what it was and what DT were at the time. So, I rounded that up to "everything, I love it!"

[Infinite Cactus]

This album is in my top 4 DT albums, so I answered I love it.

[lithium112]

I answered that the music is good but the production and vocals are bad. I feel like I need to qualify this with - the music is okay. It's not great but I wouldn't describe it as "bad". There's a lot of energy and the guys are clearly trying to write some awesome songs, but they weren't nearly as mature as they were on I&W and subsequent releases.

Like others I never listen to the studio album because the production is quite bad and I very actively dislike the vocals. However some live versions of the songs are amazing (especially the LATM versions).

[Orbert]

For me it's the vocals.  I don't mind the less-than-stellar production.  It is what it is.  But I just don't like Charlie's voice.

I think the songs are fine.  Shit, if my friends from college and I could've put together anything close to this, I'd be a happy man.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, the music is good, but the production and vocals could have been better.  What's interesting is I really, REALLY love Charlie's solo stuff.  I just think this group of songs was not a very good set for his vocal capabilities at the time.

I guess there's always this for people who want to hear LaBrie's take on these songs:
https://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=20

[krands85]

Production and vocals have always been my problem with the album. There are 3 songs that I'm not that keen on either, but the other 5 are very good musically.

Would have been very nice to have a studio re-recording of it before James' accident - the 92/93 live versions of AFIL and TKL are incredible. Afterlife at Score is also brilliant too though.

[7thHanyou]

The production isn't good; I concede that, but honestly, I don't see the big deal.

The vocals aren't perfect, but aside from a part in The Killing Hand, I've never seen why people bash them so much.  I actually quite like them, and find them very fitting, in other songs.

As for the music, it's top-notch, absolutely.  Like many DT fans, I&W is my favorite DT album.  When I first heard WDaDU, I was blown away by how similar the "vibe" was--it was fantastical, mostly upbeat, otherworldly.  The album should be praised on the strength of the music alone; quite frankly, it stands as one of their best.

Far as I'm concerned, the music is the most important part.  In my view, it easily beats SDoIT, ToT, SC, and BCSL.  The rest of DT's albums are strong enough that they're better, but WDaDU is still amazing.

[lumpy33]

how is no one calling bullshit on blob here?  most of the songs are "poorly written" and most of the album has "no redeeming songwriting quality"?  i think most all of us here beg to differ.  if you're only comparing the writing to later d.t. albums, then yes, we can see how they've improved over time, but overall, these statements are just too harsh to be true.  the risks they take in the writing on WDADU make the music more engaging than probably 90% of the writing you'd get from any other rock/metal band.  no redeeming quality means they don't know what they're doing, and that's just not the case.

[7thHanyou]

how is no one calling bullshit on blob here?  most of the songs are "poorly written" and most of the album has "no redeeming songwriting quality"?  i think most all of us here beg to differ.  if you're only comparing the writing to later d.t. albums, then yes, we can see how they've improved over time, but overall, these statements are just too harsh to be true.  the risks they take in the writing on WDADU make the music more engaging than probably 90% of the writing you'd get from any other rock/metal band.  no redeeming quality means they don't know what they're doing, and that's just not the case.

Not only that, but I would disagree with the statement that they "evolved over time."  BCSL isn't nearly as good as WDaDU, for example.

[Mosh]

The music is OK. The production is terrible. There aren't any songs on there I enjoy to listen to often, maybe A Fortune in Lies, and Ytse Jam is unlistenable on the album to me, because it's so much better live.

[Perpetual Change]

Not only that, but I would disagree with the statement that they "evolved over time."  BCSL isn't nearly as good as WDaDU, for example.

Agreed. Aside from ADTOE, WDADU is easily better than anything they've done post-SDOIT.

[BlobVanDam]

how is no one calling bullshit on blob here?  most of the songs are "poorly written" and most of the album has "no redeeming songwriting quality"?  i think most all of us here beg to differ.  if you're only comparing the writing to later d.t. albums, then yes, we can see how they've improved over time, but overall, these statements are just too harsh to be true.  the risks they take in the writing on WDADU make the music more engaging than probably 90% of the writing you'd get from any other rock/metal band.  no redeeming quality means they don't know what they're doing, and that's just not the case.

That is your opinion, just as I gave my opinion. There is no bullshit to call, it's just that my opinion differs from yours. I am not bashing the album for the sake of bashing. I gave my fair and reasonable breakdown of every element of the album as I see it, and gave the good and the bad points.
I am not unanimously calling the album bad. As I said, I think there are 4 good songs on the album. That's half the album.
But I truly think the other half of the album is amateur and they didn't know what they were doing. The arrangements showed a lack of songwriting skill with how the instruments fit together, together with the poor phrasing of the lyrics to match the music. They are truly undoubtedly to me the worst songs Dream Theater has or ever will write, because they've got over 20 years of experience ensuring they will never make those amateur mistakes again. I listen to a lot of other rock and metal, and it's all worlds ahead of WDADU, as is absolutely every other album DT has recorded. So I guess I just got lucky finding that 10%, huh? Even the low points of SC or BCASL show a songwriting craft that leaves WDADU for dead.

That's my opinion, and you disagree with it. That's not a problem, but don't act like my opinion is any less valid simply because you disagree with it. I have respectfully given my opinions, so there is nothing to "call" me on here.

[lithium112]

Not only that, but I would disagree with the statement that they "evolved over time."  BCSL isn't nearly as good as WDaDU, for example.

Agreed. Aside from ADTOE, WDADU is easily better than anything they've done post-SDOIT.

Disagreed... lol. I personally find the song-writing on every album to be considerably better than the majority of WDADU. They were young on this album and my impression has always been that they had lots of good ideas but got a bit overzealous on the execution or just didn't have a good sense of when to hold back and when to give'er (mostly the former).

[KevShmev]

how is no one calling bullshit on blob here?  most of the songs are "poorly written" and most of the album has "no redeeming songwriting quality"?  i think most all of us here beg to differ.  if you're only comparing the writing to later d.t. albums, then yes, we can see how they've improved over time, but overall, these statements are just too harsh to be true.  the risks they take in the writing on WDADU make the music more engaging than probably 90% of the writing you'd get from any other rock/metal band.  no redeeming quality means they don't know what they're doing, and that's just not the case.

Agreed.  WDADU has damn good songwriting.  It is not always easy to hear through Charlie's vocals and the mediocre production, but the songs are there.  Their chops were already aces, there are strong melodies all over the place, and it is nice mix of melody and hard rock (they didn't really go too metal this early on).

[Progmetty]

It's the production and vocals are option but I also didn't like the music aside from Ytse Jam which really doesn't fall in place on that album.

[fibreoptix]

For me, I think the music is... pretty much on the level I'd put it for most DT albums. A few absolute corkers, a few that are pleasant enough and a couple I would more often skip than not. I can probably think of... I dunno, 1? Maye 2 DT albums that do better than that?

I don't necessarily have a problem with the vocals either. Given the choice, sure I'd rather they'd had James when they recorded it (especially the Winter Rose period James, wow!) and I sorely wish they'd re-written The Killing Hand's climax to suit Charlie's abilities (it all got a bit out of haaaaand...) but they're certainly not unlistenable.

It's the production. It's already been pointed out, but it feels more like a demo than a professional debut album. It sort of feels like listening to the Falling Into Infinity demos... WDADU is only a bit clearer sounding. And that sort of makes me subconsciously dismiss it as part of their album canon. I can't help but think it'd be more of a 'middle of the pack' DT album if it'd been recorded under different circumstances.

[Juular]

I love it. Sure, the production could have been better but the music is always the most important thing for me.

[lumpy33]

how is no one calling bullshit on blob here?  most of the songs are "poorly written" and most of the album has "no redeeming songwriting quality"?  i think most all of us here beg to differ.  if you're only comparing the writing to later d.t. albums, then yes, we can see how they've improved over time, but overall, these statements are just too harsh to be true.  the risks they take in the writing on WDADU make the music more engaging than probably 90% of the writing you'd get from any other rock/metal band.  no redeeming quality means they don't know what they're doing, and that's just not the case.

That is your opinion, just as I gave my opinion. There is no bullshit to call, it's just that my opinion differs from yours. I am not bashing the album for the sake of bashing. I gave my fair and reasonable breakdown of every element of the album as I see it, and gave the good and the bad points.
I am not unanimously calling the album bad. As I said, I think there are 4 good songs on the album. That's half the album.
But I truly think the other half of the album is amateur and they didn't know what they were doing. The arrangements showed a lack of songwriting skill with how the instruments fit together, together with the poor phrasing of the lyrics to match the music. They are truly undoubtedly to me the worst songs Dream Theater has or ever will write, because they've got over 20 years of experience ensuring they will never make those amateur mistakes again. I listen to a lot of other rock and metal, and it's all worlds ahead of WDADU, as is absolutely every other album DT has recorded. So I guess I just got lucky finding that 10%, huh? Even the low points of SC or BCASL show a songwriting craft that leaves WDADU for dead.

That's my opinion, and you disagree with it. That's not a problem, but don't act like my opinion is any less valid simply because you disagree with it. I have respectfully given my opinions, so there is nothing to "call" me on here.

yeah, i guess i got overzealous there for a minute.  sorry, blob.  seeing "no redeeming songwriting quality" was like getting kicked in the balls.     we'll have to agree to disagree on this one i guess.

[BlobVanDam]

yeah, i guess i got overzealous there for a minute.  sorry, blob.  seeing "no redeeming songwriting quality" was like getting kicked in the balls.     we'll have to agree to disagree on this one i guess.

To be fair, I also did have to round down my vote *slightly*.
My true answer would be somewhere between "The music itself is good, but the production and vocals are bad" and "Everything. The album has no redeeming qualities whatsoever", but I didn't feel the album overall merited a vote of "good" based on the quality of the worse songs, so my vote was closer to the latter.

Each to his own. My opinion of the album doesn't stop you rockin' out to it. I'll agree to agree to disagree.