Least favorite song on ADTOE?

[Unimatrix]

When i am listening to the last 4 maiden outputs, which i did once which each of them, how much more pop(In the most negative sense you can think of) can you get?

My vote goes to BMUBMD. There was so much excitement that was built up in the months prior to the release and that song managed to break it down within a few minutes for me. Truly fitting title. I've found that I enjoy the album more when I just skip the first 2 tracks.

[lumpy33]

i don't listen to dream theater to hear ballads, i listen to them for the metal and the prog.  i skip over almost all the ballads on all the albums, so any of the three ballads i would consider my least favorite.
does no one else really feel this way?  is BMUBMD really not better than ANY of those three ballads, folks?  seriously?

[SnakeEyes]

Um, yes, Build Me Up - in my opinion - is not better than any of the slower songs.  Do you really, honestly think that BMUBMD is a better song than Beneath the Surface?  I mean, really?  If you do, there's nothing wrong with that as it would be your opinion.... I just don't understand that opinion. 

[lumpy33]

yeah, i'll always take rocker riff songs over ballads.  it's just how i like my non-jazz music.  i want to hear my rock bands rock.  i leave the ballads to miles davis.

[InfraredDream]

I always enjoy reading that kind of votes as it shows just how diverse we all are. And how somebody's most favourite songs is hated by somebody else. It is interesting

[BlobVanDam]

Um, yes, Build Me Up - in my opinion - is not better than any of the slower songs.  Do you really, honestly think that BMUBMD is a better song than Beneath the Surface?  I mean, really?  If you do, there's nothing wrong with that as it would be your opinion.... I just don't understand that opinion. 

I prefer BMUBMD over BTS. I don't really understand the praise for BTS, or the hate for BMUBMD. BTS doesn't have that much going on in it, and the autotune kills any emotion in the vocals. Aside from that it's a decent ballad, but nothing special or standout.
BMUBMD is nothing earth shattering either, but it's a solid short metal track. It's got a decent enough riff, and I like the understated verses, and the way it builds up to the big scream section that has a lot of energy. Again, nothing really standout, but it's definitely no worse than BTS.

I do quite like both songs, and I'd love to hear either one live, but I think both are probably the bottom end of the album (aside from Outcry).

[lumpy33]

just wondering blob - how do you know if auto tune is being used?

[BlobVanDam]

just wondering blob - how do you know if auto tune is being used?

Because I have these special things implanted in the side of my head that recognize frequencies in the audible range, and then the waveform gets processed and analyzed.
I believe they're called "ears".

[lumpy33]

nice.  but aren't you assuming too much?

[BlobVanDam]

I don't see how. It's no different to hearing the opening part of LNF and assuming it's a piano. I hear it, so I know it.

[lumpy33]

fair enough.  i guess i don't know what hearing auto tuning sounds like vs. hearing regular singing.

[theseoafs]

Anybody who knows anything about recording vocals would easily be able to spot the autotune in Beneath the Surface.

[energythief]

Anybody who knows anything about recording vocals would easily be able to spot the autotune in Beneath the Surface.

Ok, so for the benefit of those of us who don't have that experience, how can you tell unless it sounds like Cher or Enrique Iglesias's extreme usage of it?

[KevShmev]

It's no different to hearing the opening part of LNF and assuming it's a piano.

Actually, it is.

[theseoafs]

Anybody who knows anything about recording vocals would easily be able to spot the autotune in Beneath the Surface.

Ok, so for the benefit of those of us who don't have that experience, how can you tell unless it sounds like Cher or Enrique Iglesias's extreme usage of it?

Well, many times, the unnatural or inhuman jump between two notes is a dead giveaway, and the studio recording of Beneath Surface is full of them.

[bosk1]

I always find it funny that people who claim to have such superior hearing skills so often mistake every vocal effect under the sun for autotune.

[BlobVanDam]

It's no different to hearing the opening part of LNF and assuming it's a piano.

Actually, it is.

No, it isn't. But you put up a compelling argument.
You hear a waveform, and recognize it entirely subjectively in your mind only by comparison to what you have heard in the past, and know a piano to sound like. And yet you can still be certain that it's a piano, because you've heard pianos before. You can also say that it's not a hammond organ, because you know what those sound like too.
Hearing pitch correction requires a more well trained ear, but to those who have a good ear, it is just as definitive that it is there. It's not just a matter of "these vocals sound too good, so therefore I'm going to assume it's pitch corrected."
It's matter of listening to the digital artifacts left behind by the software and knowing the way it slides between notes, which sounds very linear and nothing like the way the human vocal cords work, and the speed of the slide compared to the tonal changes in the human voice that come with altering the pitch of a note.

But it doesn't even require knowledge of any of this to hear it in this case. It is so clearly there.

I always find it funny that people who claim to have such superior hearing skills so often mistake every vocal effect under the sun for autotune.

I find this to be an ignorant counterargument. It's like the 128kb mp3 vs lossless debate. It exists whether you're one of the people who hear it or not.

[KevShmev]

I am not saying it is not there, but to say it is the same as hearing a piano is just wrong.  Listening to an instrument that you know is that instrument is not the same as suspecting you hear some type of vocal effect.  It is not even close to being the same thing, but if you want to act like you have better ears than everyone and all of that jazz, be my guest.

[BlobVanDam]

I am not saying it is not there, but to say it is the same as hearing a piano is just wrong.  Listening to an instrument that you know is that instrument is not the same as suspecting you hear some type of vocal effect.  It is not even close to being the same thing, but if you want to act like you have better ears than everyone and all of that jazz, be my guest.

It's not "suspecting" in this case. To me it is plain as identifying a piano. It is no different to hearing that Cher song and knowing it's pitch correction. The only difference is that it is less extreme, but no less certain if you know what to listen for.
If you can't hear it, well there's nothing more I can say. Some people do have better trained ears. And I'm not arrogantly using that as proof. In the past I have given timestamps of the exact spots it is obvious, and tried explaining exactly what to listen to down to the exact syllable, so there's nothing more I can say.

edit: Just a note, BTS is the only DT song where I think the pitch correction is "certain" enough for me to even mention, so this isn't something I claim regularly because of what I think I hear.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Usually I'm the guy defending the short, soothing songs, but in this case, I have to go with "Far from Heaven". It's just missing something.

[WindMaster]

Usually I'm the guy defending the short, soothing songs, but in this case, I have to go with "Far from Heaven". It's just missing something.

Honestly, I really love that song. One of my favorites.

[LTE3]

BMUBMD is the Forsaken of the new record. Kind of commercial and cheesy. Although I think it is better then Forsaken.

[obscure]

I find it surprising that people dislike BMU, BMD.  It is currently my most played song from the album in my iTunes.

same here 

[Lowdz]

I can't rank anything on ADTOE as my least favourite, because that is to give it a negative tone. I love every song here. I like the ballads as much as the rockerss and epics. It hasn't lost any shine for me at all since release.

And the autotune argument/discussion? I care about as much as the Thiago "conspiracy theory". I don't hear it and for that I'm thankful. I don't want to hear music that way.

[WindMaster]

I can't rank anything on ADTOE as my least favourite, because that is to give it a negative tone. I love every song here. I like the ballads as much as the rockerss and epics. It hasn't lost any shine for me at all since release.

And the autotune argument/discussion? I care about as much as the Thiago "conspiracy theory". I don't hear it and for that I'm thankful. I don't want to hear music that way.

What was this about the autotune? Can someone explain?

[theseoafs]

I can't rank anything on ADTOE as my least favourite, because that is to give it a negative tone. I love every song here. I like the ballads as much as the rockerss and epics. It hasn't lost any shine for me at all since release.

And the autotune argument/discussion? I care about as much as the Thiago "conspiracy theory". I don't hear it and for that I'm thankful. I don't want to hear music that way.

What was this about the autotune? Can someone explain?

You literally just have to read this page.

(Though I should point out, in fairness, that unlike Thiago's nonsense, the pitch correction in Beneath the Surface is undeniable.)

[Jaffa]

If you can't hear it, well there's nothing more I can say. Some people do have better trained ears. And I'm not arrogantly using that as proof.

Just weighing in as someone who definitely does not have well trained ears at all.  Anyone who's ever tried to have a musical conversation with me knows that the moment you start trying to make it into a technical discussion, I'm lost.  I can't hear all the subtleties of musical technique.  Not with vocals, nor with any instrument. 

That being said, I still think the autotune is pretty obvious.  It doesn't bother me at all, and I love BTS to pieces, but I can hear the autotune as plain as day. 

I'm not sure I hear ALL the spots with autotune, but some are quite clear.

[WindMaster]

I can hear it. The whole song sort of sounds electronic somehow. But I think we all can agree that the use of pitch correction in BTS is not as bad as in the JP vocal demo of Wither, where you actually hear that T-Pain-esque crack in the vocal track. But this is to be expected, because JP is a guitarist, not a singer.

And...... 100th post!!!!