Is this EVERY non-album Dream Theater song???

[darkshade]

Is anything missing???

A Change of Seasons
A Vision
Another Hand
Another Won
Bombay Vindaloo
Cover My Eyes
Don't Look Past Me
Eve
March of the Tyrant
Raise the Knife
Raw Dog
Speak to Me
The Way It Used to Be
To Live Forever
Two Far
Vital Star
Where Are You Now
You Or Me
Your Majesty

Instrumedley and other medleys don't count.

[The Letter M]

Is anything missing???



Instrumedley and other medleys don't count.

I believe so...

Released on the Majesty Demos:
Another Won
Your Majesty
A Vision
Two Far
Vital Star
March of the Tyrant

Released on DTIFC Cleaning Out The Closet:
Don't Look Past Me
To Live Forever (there are TWO versions of this - 1991 and 1994)
Eve
Raise the Knife
Where Are You Now
The Way It Used to Be
Cover My Eyes
Speak to Me

Released on the "Hollow Years" Single (or at it's length, might as well have been an EP):
You Or Me

Released on Officially released EPs/Singles:
A Change of Seasons
Another Hand
Bombay Vindaloo
Raw Dog

Although "Another Hand" and "Bombay Vindaloo" were just jams that were made for the live set, not written for an album and left on the cutting room floor like the ones on Cleaning Out The Closet, which had some of it's tracks released on Singles (such as "Eve", "The Way It Used To Be" and "To Live Forever"). However, there is a bit more merit to "Another Hand" (the bridge between "Another Day" and "The Killing Hand") than "Bombay Vindaloo" because it was a written-out jam that connected the two pieces and played on later tours, where as the latter was a one-off improvisation with only one release (IIRC, other versions of "Another Hand/The Killing Hand" were released after Live At The Marquee).

If you include "Another Hand" and "Bombay Vindaloo", you might as well count other live jams like "Moon Bubbles", "The Oakdale Oddysey", "The Spirit of St. Louis", and so many more. And if you include "You Or Me", you might as well include the original 20-minute version of "A Change Of Seasons", released on the 3-4-93 NYC Bootleg.

Personally, I would only count songs written and recorded in the studio, and exclude live jams/medleys/improvisations and alternate versions of released songs (like "You Or Me", which is just the original version of "You Not Me" - if you include that, you might as well include the original '96 versions of certain FII tunes like "Burning My Soul" and "Lines In The Sand", which had different arrangements, enough that the band decided to play them live and label them as "Burning My Soul '96" etc.etc.).

-Marc.

[Setlist Scotty]

Although "Another Hand" and "Bombay Vindaloo" were just jams that were made for the live set, not written for an album and left on the cutting room floor like the ones on Cleaning Out The Closet, which had some of it's tracks released on Singles (such as "Eve", "The Way It Used To Be" and "To Live Forever"). However, there is a bit more merit to "Another Hand" (the bridge between "Another Day" and "The Killing Hand") than "Bombay Vindaloo" because it was a written-out jam that connected the two pieces and played on later tours, where as the latter was a one-off improvisation with only one release (IIRC, other versions of "Another Hand/The Killing Hand" were released after Live At The Marquee).

Gotta disagree with you on Another Hand and Bombay Vindaloo - they weren't simply just jams, but rather constructed musical pieces that never were recorded in the studio. In the case of BV, there was room for improvisation in the track but the overall song remained the same if you were to listen to different performances of the song.

If you include "Another Hand" and "Bombay Vindaloo", you might as well count other live jams like "Moon Bubbles", "The Oakdale Oddysey", "The Spirit of St. Louis", and so many more. And if you include "You Or Me", you might as well include the original 20-minute version of "A Change Of Seasons", released on the 3-4-93 NYC Bootleg.

Personally, I would only count songs written and recorded in the studio, and exclude live jams/medleys/improvisations and alternate versions of released songs (like "You Or Me", which is just the original version of "You Not Me" - if you include that, you might as well include the original '96 versions of certain FII tunes like "Burning My Soul" and "Lines In The Sand", which had different arrangements, enough that the band decided to play them live and label them as "Burning My Soul '96" etc.etc.).

While it's up to the individual person to determine what would be considered non-album songs, I don't think different versions/arrangements of songs (be it demo, studio, live) really should count. Nor do I think pieces such as what is known as the Oakdale Odyssey, The Spirit of St. Louis, the Back Pain jam and the untitled jam from the 9/5/04 show, since they merely were ideas the band came up with on the spot, never to repeat again. On the other hand, instrumental pieces such as Bombay Vindaloo, Barfbag, Moon Bubbles, Slow Motion, the Awake Jam and other instrumental pieces played on the Music in Progress tour (1993) should be included because they were pre-written, structured pieces that only had a section allowing for improvisation. That they were never recorded in the studio is meaningless IMO.

[hefdaddy42]

What about Showdown, the original instrumental that eventually became Raise The Knife?

[Tis BOOLsheet]

What about the Canadian Rap?

[Setlist Scotty]

What about Showdown, the original instrumental that eventually became Raise The Knife?

I wouldn't include Showdown nor Puppies on Acid as they are simply instrumental excerpts from songs then unreleased at the time they were performed. I'd lump them into the same category as Burning My Soul, Take Away My Pain and Lines in the Sand as performed in 1996.

What about the Canadian Rap?

I wouldn't count it any more than I would count "John Thinks He's Randy Song" or any of the other joke Majesty songs that were just thrown together for fun.

A couple others that may be included are The School Song, Cry For Freedom and Resurrection of Ernie - all of which were recorded demos but never really completed songs.

[Progmetty]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

[hefdaddy42]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

[jingle.boy]

Lost Without You

Tokyo '95 bootleg.  Sure, JP re-recorded for Suspended Animation, but it showed up here first.  If you're gonna include Eve, this should be too.

[Jaq]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

Isn't the industry term for that sort of release a compilation album?

[SeRoX]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

It's actually an album that can be bought, so...

[darkshade]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

It's actually an album that can be bought, so...

I was talking about any song that is not on any official studio album WDADU thru ADTOE.

And I think you're confusing the term "album".

[The Letter M]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

It's actually an album that can be bought, so...

I was talking about any song that is not on any official studio album WDADU thru ADTOE.

And I think you're confusing the term "album".

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/album?s=t

Well actually, an album is any collection of music recordings onto one or more pieces of media, so be it a live recording or a studio recording or a compilation, an album is an album.

-Marc.

[Progmetty]

I agree. And also it's not the first time a band releases a new song among their compilation album songs, that song usually gets referred to as from that album from that point on. I think if it's an official release, prepared by the band, available in stores and especially if that band gave it a unique title, it's an album in their discography.

[SeRoX]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

It's actually an album that can be bought, so...

I was talking about any song that is not on any official studio album WDADU thru ADTOE.

And I think you're confusing the term "album".

I think you are thinking too much about terms. It's compilation or recording, since it's officially released and can be bought legally I can call it an "album".

[darkshade]

I thought To Live Forever would seize to be referred to as a non-album song after Greatest Hit.

That's not an album.  It's a collection.

It's actually an album that can be bought, so...

I was talking about any song that is not on any official studio album WDADU thru ADTOE.

And I think you're confusing the term "album".

I think you are thinking too much about terms. It's compilation or recording, since it's officially released and can be bought legally I can call it an "album".

I know what "album" technically means, but I didn't use it's literal usage in my original post. I was talking about album as in the 11 studio albums DT has released. I also use the word "album" to describe live albums, but a greatest hits compilation is not an album in the traditional sense, nor is an EP or single.

I agree. And also it's not the first time a band releases a new song among their compilation album songs, that song usually gets referred to as from that album from that point on. I think if it's an official release, prepared by the band, available in stores and especially if that band gave it a unique title, it's an album in their discography.

To Live Forever had also been previously released in other media forms long before "Greatest Hit" ever came out, so even that song is not "new" for that compilation.

And if a compilation, for any band, is part of their album discography, then why are greatest hits compilations usually separated in their own section on sites like Wikipedia, or any site that documents music, and not part of the regular discography?

[The Letter M]

And if a compilation, for any band, is part of their album discography, then why are greatest hits compilations usually separated in their own section on sites like Wikipedia, or any site that documents music, and not part of the regular discography?

Probably for the same reason live albums, singles, and EPs are separated from the studio albums - it's because that's how they are labelled and categorized. If there wasn't any organization to a discography, you'd have dozens of albums listed chronologically that you'd have to sift through, but because they are separated as Studio Recordings/Live Recordings/EPs/Singles/Compilations/Videos, it makes it easier to navigate a band's discography, especially those with a lot of albums (meaning all of the above).

-Marc.

[darkshade]

And if a compilation, for any band, is part of their album discography, then why are greatest hits compilations usually separated in their own section on sites like Wikipedia, or any site that documents music, and not part of the regular discography?

Probably for the same reason live albums, singles, and EPs are separated from the studio albums - it's because that's how they are labelled and categorized. If there wasn't any organization to a discography, you'd have dozens of albums listed chronologically that you'd have to sift through, but because they are separated as Studio Recordings/Live Recordings/EPs/Singles/Compilations/Videos, it makes it easier to navigate a band's discography, especially those with a lot of albums (meaning all of the above).

-Marc.

I know THAT.

Album technically means any collection of songs on one format. But "album" is not used to describe greatest hits compilations etc. 
I was being somewhat facetious.

[The Letter M]

And if a compilation, for any band, is part of their album discography, then why are greatest hits compilations usually separated in their own section on sites like Wikipedia, or any site that documents music, and not part of the regular discography?

Probably for the same reason live albums, singles, and EPs are separated from the studio albums - it's because that's how they are labelled and categorized. If there wasn't any organization to a discography, you'd have dozens of albums listed chronologically that you'd have to sift through, but because they are separated as Studio Recordings/Live Recordings/EPs/Singles/Compilations/Videos, it makes it easier to navigate a band's discography, especially those with a lot of albums (meaning all of the above).

-Marc.

I know THAT.

Album technically means any collection of songs on one format. But "album" is not used to describe greatest hits compilations etc. 
I was being somewhat facetious.

Understandable, but sometimes bands DO count their compilations as regular albums, particularly if it includes unreleased material, or material that wasn't made easily available, such as new tracks, B-sides, demos, or edits. I think DT counts Greatest Hit as an important part of their discography because 1- it's their ONLY compilation to date and 2- on their "Black Clouds & Silver Anniversary" Poster, it is included along with their (then 10) studio albums, all 6 of their live albums and ACOS.

-Marc.

[darkshade]

And if a compilation, for any band, is part of their album discography, then why are greatest hits compilations usually separated in their own section on sites like Wikipedia, or any site that documents music, and not part of the regular discography?

Probably for the same reason live albums, singles, and EPs are separated from the studio albums - it's because that's how they are labelled and categorized. If there wasn't any organization to a discography, you'd have dozens of albums listed chronologically that you'd have to sift through, but because they are separated as Studio Recordings/Live Recordings/EPs/Singles/Compilations/Videos, it makes it easier to navigate a band's discography, especially those with a lot of albums (meaning all of the above).

-Marc.

I know THAT.

Album technically means any collection of songs on one format. But "album" is not used to describe greatest hits compilations etc. 
I was being somewhat facetious.

Understandable, but sometimes bands DO count their compilations as regular albums, particularly if it includes unreleased material, or material that wasn't made easily available, such as new tracks, B-sides, demos, or edits. I think DT counts Greatest Hit as an important part of their discography because 1- it's their ONLY compilation today and 2- on their "Black Clouds & Silver Anniversary" Poster, it is included along with their (then 10) studio albums, all 6 of their live albums and ACOS.

-Marc.

Well, I didn't know that. But it seems we've gone way off topic, and I think Ive gathered all the information I need in regards to this topic.

[Setlist Scotty]

I think Ive gathered all the information I need in regards to this topic.

Just outta curiosity, with all the discussion, what did you personally determine to be the complete list of non-(studio) album Dream Theater songs?

[darkshade]

This:

A Change of Seasons
A Vision
Another Won
Cover My Eyes
Don't Look Past Me
Eve
March of the Tyrant
Raise the Knife
Raw Dog
Speak to Me
The Way It Used to Be
To Live Forever
Two Far
Vital Star
Where Are You Now
You Or Me
Your Majesty

Alternate versions of songs do not count, like ACOS, or Burning My Soul, as it doesn't matter, I just need a list. You Or Me pretty much a completely different song than You Not Me. Jams that turned into actual songs do not count.

[The Letter M]

I was *just* reminded of this:



It was a t-shirt released on the 20th Anniversary tour (for Octavarium) and contained every song the band felt was worthy of including as part of their discography, which, oddly enough, does include "Another Hand" and "Bombay Vindaloo", most likely because they were uniquely named songs on an official release. It also include "The School Song", "Cry For Freedom" and "Resurrection Of Ernie".

Every DT song up to "Octavarium", so the only things since then would have been all of SC, BC&SL, "Raw Dog" and ADTOE.

-Marc.

[JayOctavarium]

What about Long Island Expressway? lol