Which one: A Dramatic Turn of Events or...

theseoafs · October 03, 2011, 02:34:16 PM

Quote from: jadarite on October 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
That's when you get down to the meat of the issue. DT took 6 months in the studio, but they only gave MP 4 months to sort out his project with A7X (you can't call it a band at this point after seeing the May announcement).

There was nothing to "sort out". He concluded his tour with A7X (a band for which MP was not a replacement drummer but a guest and touring musician) as scheduled and, if he hadn't suggested the hiatus, would have went into the studio with DT as scheduled in the following January.

Even so, what are you arguing? What is the argument you're trying to make regarding DT and MP?

Jaffa · October 03, 2011, 02:34:58 PM

Quote from: jadarite on October 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
That's when you get down to the meat of the issue. DT took 6 months in the studio, but they only gave MP 4 months to sort out his project with A7X (you can't call it a band at this point after seeing the May announcement).

They were willing to give him until friggin' January to tour with A7X. They just wanted to start recording in January; that was the only deadline they ever made clear.

What they wanted to happen was for him to do whatever he felt like until January, then return and record a new Dream Theater album. The only reason this didn't happen is because Mike Portnoy quit the band in September.

theseoafs · October 03, 2011, 02:39:51 PM

Quote from: Jaffa on October 03, 2011, 02:34:58 PM
Quote from: jadarite on October 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
That's when you get down to the meat of the issue. DT took 6 months in the studio, but they only gave MP 4 months to sort out his project with A7X (you can't call it a band at this point after seeing the May announcement).

They were willing to give him until friggin' January to tour with A7X. They just wanted to start recording in January; that was the only deadline they ever made clear.

What they wanted to happen was for him to do whatever he felt like until January, then return and record a new Dream Theater album. The only reason this didn't happen is because Mike Portnoy quit the band in September.

Think of it this way: you're an employee of a very small company. It's Saturday and you're really bummed out about the upcoming workweek, so you call your boss and say "hey, I don't want to come into work this week, let's reconvene next Monday after we all go on vacation". Your boss says "listen, the workweek is coming whether you like it or not, so you can either leave the company or come to work on Monday". Mike chose the former.

bosk1 · October 03, 2011, 02:45:33 PM

As far as this thread is concerned, jadarite has now taken it WAY off topic. The topic is whether people are happier with the album, or if they think the band would have been better taking a break. Please keep it on topic. Thanks.

jadarite, you are welcome to make a thread about whatever it is you are trying to argue, but don't derail threads that your argument has nothing to do with.

hefdaddy42 · October 03, 2011, 02:46:38 PM

Quote from: jadarite on October 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
QuoteThe statement from May 2010 was in regards to joining A7X permanently.

The point was that he wasn't kicked out of A7X based on the premise in the statement from May 2010. Something else came up. He was never going to be with them permanently in May.

If you want to use September as the deciding point because that is when he gave the announcement of leaving, it could have been DT kicking him out, not him leaving. What happened during those four months (May-August) is fuzzy.

That's when you get down to the meat of the issue. DT took 6 months in the studio, but they only gave MP 4 months to sort out his project with A7X (you can't call it a band at this point after seeing the May announcement).

What?

He played on A7X's album, recorded in Spring 2010. He released the statement that you quoted from May 2010 to say that he wasn't joining the band, but would be touring with them throughout 2010. It had nothing to do with DT.

What happened from May to August is not fuzzy. DT was off during that time, and MP was on tour with A7X as scheduled. There was no "DT giving MP time to sort out his project with A7X", I have idea what you're talking about. And apparently, neither do you.

EDIT: Sorry, boss.

Podaar · October 03, 2011, 02:47:08 PM

Jadarite,

Try looking at it this way; MP asked for a long break. The other guys said no thanks. He said are you sure? We could shorten the break or maybe get a fill in for me but I really need a break. The other guys said, "Well we're scheduled for studio time at the first of next year, we've already had the entire summer and fall off and we're ready to rock." So MP quit! Read his statement to the fans, he quit!!!

What part of that don't you understand? Anyone can sugar coat it down the road but in the adult world if you quit, you're toast. If you happen to be partner in a legal enterprise, you end up bought out and replaced.

No one should ever make the mistake of thinking they are not replaceable. Everyone is replaceable. Full stop.

Now to answer the OP. No the band didn't need a break, just a change. MP often said he was having fun in his other projects because he didn't have to do anything more than be the drummer. He could have opted for that role in DT too, but for whatever reason, he quit instead.

[edit]

Sorry Bosk. I read that late. I'm new around here, should I delete this or what?

jadarite · October 03, 2011, 02:55:09 PM

QuoteThe topic is whether people are happier with the album, or if they think the band would have been better taking a break.

I think they did the right thing to make the album, they are even right for touring to promote the album. However, I see this as a side project and also a parallel break from MPDT. They probably won't treat it as such, so the next hope is for a reunion if you want to see MPDT again.

theseoafs · October 03, 2011, 02:55:28 PM

As for the OP: I'm very happy things turned out the way they did, actually. Though I'm sure a hiatus would certainly have been best for the band's creative output, the members of DT probably needed their primary source of income, and MM's introduction seems to have been just as rejuvenating as a hiatus would have been, if quality is any indication.

Jaffa · October 03, 2011, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: bosk1 on October 03, 2011, 02:45:33 PM
As far as this thread is concerned, jadarite has now taken it WAY off topic. The topic is whether people are happier with the album, or if they think the band would have been better taking a break. Please keep it on topic. Thanks.

jadarite, you are welcome to make a thread about whatever it is you are trying to argue, but don't derail threads that your argument has nothing to do with.

Sorry for my contribution to the off-topicness. I just honestly wasn't sure whether jadarite's point was on-topic or not.

As for the OP, I'm quite happy with ADTOE, so I'm glad they didn't take a break.

bss4life15 · October 03, 2011, 03:53:05 PM

A part of me wishes that MP was still in the band and they took a break, because he has been a giant inspiration for me and is my favorite drummer, but ADTOE is so kickass i'm really glad they didn't take a break.

Tis BOOLsheet · October 03, 2011, 06:34:28 PM

Quote from: theseoafs on October 03, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
As for the OP: I'm very happy things turned out the way they did, actually. Though I'm sure a hiatus would certainly have been best for the band's creative output, the members of DT probably needed their primary source of income, and MM's introduction seems to have been just as rejuvenating as a hiatus would have been, if quality is any indication.

why are you so certain that a hiatus would have been the best for the band's creative output? was mike portnoy going to progress exponentially as a drummer or as a composer in that 5 years or was he just going to keep busy with other projects that bore no relationship to DT?

theseoafs · October 03, 2011, 07:28:13 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: theseoafs on October 03, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
As for the OP: I'm very happy things turned out the way they did, actually. Though I'm sure a hiatus would certainly have been best for the band's creative output, the members of DT probably needed their primary source of income, and MM's introduction seems to have been just as rejuvenating as a hiatus would have been, if quality is any indication.

why are you so certain that a hiatus would have been the best for the band's creative output? was mike portnoy going to progress exponentially as a drummer or as a composer in that 5 years or was he just going to keep busy with other projects that bore no relationship to DT?

I found DT to be becoming a little stagnant, their music a little less creative and exciting and a little more by-numbers and predictable. I feel, as Portnoy did, that a hiatus would allow them to refocus and assemble some truly incredible material. That is of course my opinion and not at all a certainty.

Tis BOOLsheet · October 03, 2011, 07:31:40 PM

Quote from: theseoafs on October 03, 2011, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: theseoafs on October 03, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
As for the OP: I'm very happy things turned out the way they did, actually. Though I'm sure a hiatus would certainly have been best for the band's creative output, the members of DT probably needed their primary source of income, and MM's introduction seems to have been just as rejuvenating as a hiatus would have been, if quality is any indication.

why are you so certain that a hiatus would have been the best for the band's creative output? was mike portnoy going to progress exponentially as a drummer or as a composer in that 5 years or was he just going to keep busy with other projects that bore no relationship to DT?
I found DT to be becoming a little stagnant, their music a little less creative and exciting and a little more by-numbers and predictable. I feel, as Portnoy did, that a hiatus would allow them to refocus and assemble some truly incredible material. That is of course my opinion and not at all a certainty.

i agree entirely with your assessment of the music. i just dont think a break would have helped it. its still kinda early actually, but i think the injection of a new member like mangini might actually be the answer. not only is there a fresh perspective now but you also have a guy who is far better technically. there are way more possibilities. we'll find out in 2 years when they release the next album if they'll release another incredible album.

Pols Voice · October 03, 2011, 07:57:40 PM

I'm glad the band didn't take a hiatus. They had a good amount of momentum through good album sales and increased exposure, and you have to strike while the iron's hot. Plus Rudess is 54 and LaBrie 48. Make albums while you still can.

Nic35 · October 03, 2011, 08:09:26 PM

I still think MP was right. They needed a break. But I can't answer the question of the OP, because we don't know if DT11 w/ MP would've been better than ADTOE.

theseoafs · October 03, 2011, 08:12:37 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 07:31:40 PM
i agree entirely with your assessment of the music. i just dont think a break would have helped it. its still kinda early actually, but i think the injection of a new member like mangini might actually be the answer. not only is there a fresh perspective now but you also have a guy who is far better technically. there are way more possibilities. we'll find out in 2 years when they release the next album if they'll release another incredible album.

Haha, I actually agree completely with you. When I said that a hiatus would be best for the band's creative output, I meant that if DT had went along with MP's suggestion, the music would have improved immensely, but ultimately I'm one of the guys who didn't care too much for MP's recent input and am very happy Mangini's here.

Chimpi · October 03, 2011, 08:27:23 PM

I'm glad the events that lead to ultimately producing A Dramatic Turn Of Events occurred and will be open and accepting of whatever happens in the future.
They made album, they release album, I loved album, they ripped our faces off with live performances of album and then it shall be yet another predecessor to a new set of songs and circumstances.

energythief · October 03, 2011, 08:42:16 PM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2011, 08:48:38 AM
Neither before or after ADTOE had I ever thought a break was a good idea.

Tis BOOLsheet · October 03, 2011, 09:01:55 PM

Quote from: Nic35 on October 03, 2011, 08:09:26 PM
I still think MP was right. They needed a break. But I can't answer the question of the OP, because we don't know if DT11 w/ MP would've been better than ADTOE.

rest assured it wouldn't have been, roro.

TheGreatPretender · October 03, 2011, 10:33:58 PM

Quote from: jadarite on October 03, 2011, 02:55:09 PM
I think they did the right thing to make the album, they are even right for touring to promote the album. However, I see this as a side project and also a parallel break from MPDT. They probably won't treat it as such, so the next hope is for a reunion if you want to see MPDT again.

You can see it however you like, but the simple fact is, it's not a side project. This is DT from here on out. They've made it clear in numerous interviews that Mike Mangini is the new drummer for Dream Theater and that it's gonna stay that way. And from what I've read, they haven't spoken to MP very much since the whole ordeal took place, so if anything, they're only gonna grow further and further apart at this point.

I'm not saying that a reunion is impossible or that it won't happen. But ADTOE is definitely not a side project.

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Which one: A Dramatic Turn of Events or...